# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Void on August 07, 2019, 06:41:15 PM

Title: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Void on August 07, 2019, 06:41:15 PM
See the following video demonstration in which I show a small 12V SLA battery
powering a driver circuit and LED light, for which the setup is 'self-looped' for a period of about one hour.

The driver circuit provides feedback voltage back to the battery in a 'self-looped' circuit arrangement.
The LED light which the circuit is powering is rated at 12V, 5 Watts.
The measured battery voltage under load remains very stable at around 12.791V +/- 2 mV
for the entire hour that this circuit is left running and the LED light is being powered.

Does this demonstration show 'over unity'?

"Self-Looped Circuit - Is this Over Unity?"

Hint: No, it does not imply over unity at all. :) There is not enough information in this video demonstration
to reasonably try to draw any conclusions about over unity at all. This video demonstration actually demonstrates
a normal lead acid battery discharge characteristic when the battery is discharging under a relatively light load
(relative to the battery's energy storage capacity).

See the attached graph of typical lead acid battery discharge curves for different amounts of battery current
draw (different loads) in relation to a given battery's Amp-hour rating (C).

All the best...
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: hartiberlin on August 14, 2019, 09:26:16 AM
It depends how your driver circuit is build !
There are now circuits that put the BackEMF back to the battery and thus keeping the voltage steady and this way can get more Watthours out of the batteryas was put into the Battery in the first place, when it was charged....
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Void on August 14, 2019, 06:14:22 PM
It depends how your driver circuit is build !
There are now circuits that put the BackEMF back to the battery and thus keeping the voltage steady and this way can get more Watthours out of the batteryas was put into the Battery in the first place, when it was charged....

Hi Stefan. Sorry, but I am not convinced of that. :)
If we have a 12V battery driving a 12V light bulb directly (with no intervening circuitry), this is already pretty much 100% efficient,
(minus battery discharge losses and any losses in any possible circuitry inside the light itself, if it has any internal circuitry), and this can't
be improved upon with any circuit addition unless that circuit arrangement is producing over unity.

As soon as you add any circuit, that circuit will be consuming energy from our supply battery on top of what the light is consuming,
so you have reduced the overall efficiency. Now if we take say an electric fan or other load which has some internal circuitry,
and you modify that internal circuitry in the electric fan to be more efficient, you can improve the overall efficiency
of the electric fan, but this by itself still does not imply over unity. This only means you have improved somewhat on the efficiency of that fan,
but the overall efficiency will still be 100% or under unless your new circuitry is very special and has the ability to pull in extra energy
somehow from outside your circuit setup.

Many people have experimented with capturing inductive switching kickback spikes, for example, but I personally
so far have never seen a demonstration of such a setup which I think reasonably demonstrates possible over unity.
I am not saying I think it is impossible. I am saying that I have tried many such experiments myself and I have seen many
video demos, but I have so far not seen anything which I think reasonably suggests possible over unity.

Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: skywatcher on August 14, 2019, 09:26:55 PM
Every 'self-running' system which has a battery is bogus.
If there is a need to store some energy for a short time a capacitor could do the job.
If it doesn't work with a capacitor, it doesn't work with a battery either.
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: gotoluc on August 15, 2019, 12:09:33 AM
Top quality demonstration Void!
This is what many may consider as OU proof.
However, we both know there's not enough information provided in your great demo, like actual input battery Watts hour capacity let alone the actual input Watts the circuit is consuming which could be very difficult to measure with a moving coil Amp meter.
The other issue is the LED light intensity cannot be used as any kind of power guide since an LED is a component and not a load (like a real filament bulb) when DC is pulsed.

I'm guessing you took the time to make this to show Rick and followers how easy we can be fooled.
Great job!

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Void on August 15, 2019, 04:32:47 PM
...
I'm guessing you took the time to make this to show Rick and followers how easy we can be fooled.
Great job!
Regards
Luc

Thanks Luc. Unfortunately Stefan is censoring (AKA 'placed under moderation') a number of people, including myself, here
with formal training in electronics and engineering who also have a lot of experience testing and analyzing circuits in regards to over unity
research, because Stefan apparently doesn't want to hear the truth which various members here have been pointing out here regarding the nonsense
which has been coming from a certain forum member (RF) who started posting here recently.

I don't know why Stefan has been doing this, but Stefan has certainly silenced and stabbed in the back a number of long time forum members
here who have been keeping some semblance of sanity and grip on reality in this forum over the years. It just doesn't make any sense at all.
I can only surmise that Stefan may be going through some major personal issues in the last while, but that is still no excuse at all for what
Stefan has done here lately. At least a few long time forum members which Stefan has censored or attacked in this way recently have already
announced they are leaving this forum for good, due to this recent very irrational behavior from Stefan. It really is a sad thing to see what
has been happening here in the past little while.

You may very well not ever see this reply to you here in this thread here because I am 'under moderation' (censored) by Stefan
and I am speaking the truth about what has been really happening here lately, so I will PM this reply to you as well.
This will be my final post here in this virtual mental institution posing as an 'open source over unity research' forum.  ;D

All the best...
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: SeaMonkey on August 17, 2019, 04:45:27 AM
As Taryl would say:  "Now, there's your dinner!!"

Excellent review of the extremely important basic characteristics
of the Lead-Acid Battery!  This is truly the "Secret Truth" behind
the false claims of "Overunity" based upon voltage readings of
the Battery exclusively.

Experience, knowledge and common sense reign victorious once again!

Really well done guys!
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Magluvin on August 17, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
I have an electric bike. 13yrs old and over 35,000miles. I still use Sla. Used to use 12ah deep cycle from batteries plus, but they now have 10a Duracell which saves me close to 12lb and fits my saddlebag better. They are like 7ah length and width, but a bit taller. Have had good luck with them and seem to get better after a few months. 4 12v for 48v.  I use 4 dpdt toggles to convert the batteries from 48v series, to 12v parallel so I can charge them with a Ship and shore 12v smart charger. Charging them hot after a ride can be detrimental. So If I charge them when warm, I gota limit the charge time to just 15min more than the time they reach 15.2v or they may cook. So my worst issues are charging when it comes to batteries. Typical 48v sla bike chargers go up to 63v 2a and can cook 12v 12ah batts. Its hard to get them out of the saddle bag when they are all expanded and sometimes melted together. :o ;D So Im more careful these days. Ive cooked a set with the ship and shore at 6a with all 4 in parallel. Only 1.5a each.  But, I think that having them all beside eachother in the bag may be an issue when it comes to them heating up.  Anyway....

If the batteries are cold and I give a full charge, the bike is slower than if I do a full charge after a ride and the batteries are warm and then ride again. And it goes further also.

So if I charge it up after a ride and they are warm and then let is sit off the charger overnight, and just ride in the morning, its still not the same as riding after charging warm batteries.

Just something I have took note of over 13yrs. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: SeaMonkey on August 17, 2019, 12:04:04 PM
Mags,

I'm thinking seriously about doing the same.

Does your charger have a "Recondition" mode for
desulfation and maintenance?
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: hartiberlin on August 19, 2019, 03:27:04 AM
I am just sick of the skeptics that hit and flame certain members all the time, when they have achieved major goals...
You are out of moderation again, but please don´t flame Rick again, otherwise you go again into moderation...
Regards, Stefan.
P.S. And I don´t have a personal problem, maybe just a bit burnout over the years...but I am already refreshing...lol..
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: lancaIV on August 19, 2019, 01:14:05 PM
Is there something like " hard energy" and " soft energy" charge ?
"natural energy" = radiant energy ? = "free DC electric current" = Ehrenhafts' magnetic current  ?

"Aether ~ magnetic current"

A. Here: " This means that an electric Motor with a rated power of 1000 Watts, if operated with the free electrical DC power from the downstream coils of part C, could provide 25000 Watts of power (25:1). ......
.... If an accumulator is charged with the free electric direct current from the first coil of Part C, its charge
charge capacity increases 88 times . ...."

B.
Here : SECOND LAST SENTENCE : 20 times. !?

I think this gives more details about the Benitez charge method " technical background".
The sceptics + modern battery charge technology and detailed links about " hints"
http://www.bticcs.com/pub.htm (http://www.bticcs.com/pub.htm)

"fixed DC electric current " / " free DC electric current"
What means that a nominal 1000 Watt electric motor ,concipated by specific material values,winding turns and for electric 1000 W aeqivalent mechanical RPM x torque can - with " free DC" - deliver 25000 Watt ?
How to calculate this  new " resistance-less/-free ( plasma) physics" behaviour and appropriate use  ?!

Conventional electric motor output RPM/Frequency dependant : catalogue page 6
50 Hz : 100% output 500 Hz : up to 500% output increase
Perske-motor : Schiller Motor with 10 times higher power/weight density  !
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Magluvin on August 20, 2019, 02:20:53 AM
Mags,

I'm thinking seriously about doing the same.

Does your charger have a "Recondition" mode for
desulfation and maintenance?
Its a front wheel brush less hub motor. 500w, 48v. Look on ebay for electric bike kits. I paid \$600 back then. They are cheaper now. Lithium or sla, it is your choice according to your wallet. ;) I pay about 165 for 4 10ah 12v at Batteries plus. Last up to 2 years if you keep them in good shape. Equivalent lith will be twice that or more, and if they go bad Im not sure on warranty for those. There is a YT ebike guy that shows how to build lith packs for bikes.

First bike below was my first. Walmart bike with brushed motor. Was fast top end but low get up and go. Brush commutator burned up after a year. Second bike is what Im still riding now.

Mags

Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Magluvin on August 20, 2019, 02:28:42 AM
The Ship n Shore charger says is can condition the batteries, but I think it just goes above recommended max V like 16.4v when it does so. Not good for sla.

There are some de sulfate devices but Im not sure if they do it correctly. Needs to be higher voltage and pulsed, but dont let them cook. Desulfating can cook the batts. Best to keep an eye on them while doing so, or a temp sensor to cut off the charging at a safe temp.
Mags
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: SeaMonkey on August 20, 2019, 04:38:11 AM
Very nice Mags!  I particularly like your accessory bag behind
the seat which holds your batteries and much more.

several small desulfators which develop the high voltage pulses
via inductive discharge.  Though they are not fast at desulfating
they are effective given time and very safe for the batteries.

I've seen a few ads for the kits from China and will have to
investigate further.  I'd thought initially about getting one of
the two cycle gasoline engine kits but now think electric would
be a better option.

Some of the kits are motors which rest on the rear wheel and
power it with a friction drive while others are front wheel hub
drive.  I take it you'd recommend the three phase front wheel
hub drive?

Again, very nice!  Thanks a bunch for the precis.

I do have a 12 Volt Lead-Acid Battery Charger that I've acquired
recently from China that has a pulsed recondition mode.  I've
used that already several times on automotive batteries where
it has done a splendid job of restoring capacity and I've also
used it on some SLA 7AH where it has resulted in some
improvement also.  Once I get my scope set up again and
my laboratory back in operation I'll be able to see what it
actually does and how it compares to the desulfators I'm
more familiar with.
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: ramset on August 20, 2019, 03:49:48 PM
LancalV

Can you start a separate discussion ?
Do you have any images or pics?

Much info there ?

Thx
Chet

Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2019, 01:42:05 AM
Very nice Mags!  I particularly like your accessory bag behind
the seat which holds your batteries and much more.

several small desulfators which develop the high voltage pulses
via inductive discharge.  Though they are not fast at desulfating
they are effective given time and very safe for the batteries.

I've seen a few ads for the kits from China and will have to
investigate further.  I'd thought initially about getting one of
the two cycle gasoline engine kits but now think electric would
be a better option.

Some of the kits are motors which rest on the rear wheel and
power it with a friction drive while others are front wheel hub
drive.  I take it you'd recommend the three phase front wheel
hub drive?

Again, very nice!  Thanks a bunch for the precis.

I do have a 12 Volt Lead-Acid Battery Charger that I've acquired
recently from China that has a pulsed recondition mode.  I've
used that already several times on automotive batteries where
it has done a splendid job of restoring capacity and I've also
used it on some SLA 7AH where it has resulted in some
improvement also.  Once I get my scope set up again and
my laboratory back in operation I'll be able to see what it
actually does and how it compares to the desulfators I'm
more familiar with.
Got these in the pic below for work. Exotic and high end car dealership. Use them for keeping the batteries fresh and at 5a they charge quite quick for \$19 ON AMAZON.Got 10 of them. Some .75a - 1.5a trickles are close to \$50 and dont seem to cut it. The pulse mode restoration actually helps a beat battery, sometimes. But I always recommend just repl bad batteries. Doesnt look good when you sell an expensive car and it comes back with battery issues. Some of these cars it takes a lot just to change the battery let alone get to it to charge.

Mags
Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: lancaIV on August 21, 2019, 05:36:41 PM
Chet,no discussion need :

frequency modulation effect

catalogue page 6 : power output by 3000 RPM/50 Hz ( net- grid) and 30000 RPM/500 Hz
by the same motor
10 times frequency and rotations amplifying gives 400% output increase

before 100% after 500%

power P /  power S / power Q

now this 30000 RPM by mechanical transmission down to : 3000 RPM

frequency modulation effect

by the same transformer

frequency/rotation modulation by variable speed drive or transmission

" .......according the third power of speed ......"

[0100] here for the generator : turbine torque proportional to the second power of Wind speed
turbine power proportional to the third power of wind speed

a motor  ?           motor torque
motor power

Title: Re: Self-looped Circuit Using Batteries - Beware of this battery behavior
Post by: lancaIV on August 22, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
Taking a DC battery-set with DC-AC Inverter :
A. Conversion to 50 Hz by 220 V and 10 Amperes
B. Conversion to 500 Hz by 220 Volts and 10 Amperes