Free Energy Party => Free Energy Party Memes => Topic started by: telecom on July 30, 2019, 08:47:16 PM

Title: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on July 30, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
I put together two repelling magnets, opposing each other.
I inserted a similar magnet between them.
It was attracted to one magnet, and  simultaneously repelled by another.
I tried pulling it out - the force of pulling out is considerable, so high, that I couldn't pull with my fingers.
Attaching the image - couldn't place camera at the different angle, since one hand was holding the setup.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: kolbacict on July 30, 2019, 08:58:24 PM
what kind of magnet was between them (two with like poles) that he was attracted to one, repelled from the other? it does not happen.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: gyulasun on July 30, 2019, 09:03:23 PM
I put together two repelling magnets, opposing each other.
I inserted a similar magnet between them.
It was attracted to one magnet, and  simultaneously repelled by another.
I tried pulling it out - the force of pulling out is considerable, so high, that I couldn't pull with my fingers.
Attaching the image - couldn't place camera at the different angle, since one hand was holding the setup.
telecom,

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537598/#msg537598

Gyula
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on July 30, 2019, 09:03:44 PM
Exactly the same type  -  the  standard walmart edition.
This test can be easily repeated by everyone w/o the elaborate setup.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on July 31, 2019, 12:09:33 AM
This happens because both attraction and repelling forces act in the same direction.
Since, according to Newton, they are vectors, they just add to each other.
I think there is a way around it, by having another shield, rigidly connected to the first one.
But the polarity of the magents should be opposite.
In this case forces on each shield should neutralize each other, IMHO.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on July 31, 2019, 03:16:10 AM
telecom,

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537598/#msg537598

Gyula

IMHO, this is not going to work because the linear rack and pinion neutralization
of the two moving magnets will stop working.
(But I may be wrong)
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: gyulasun on August 01, 2019, 11:37:31 AM
In the meantime Floor posted this:

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537886/#msg537886

So the best is to understand his original teachings and replicate it accordingly.
Gyula

Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 01, 2019, 03:40:17 PM
In the meantime Floor posted this:

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537886/#msg537886

So the best is to understand his original teachings and replicate it accordingly.
Gyula

I'm seconding response by citfta in this case:
"
Can you please explain why you feel my build is not an exact replication of your rack 3 design.  I am a little confused.  You PDF shows two magnets in opposition to each other and connected by a rack and pinion gear arrangement.  And a shield magnet in between the opposing magnets.  So why do you feel I have not correctly built your rack 3 device?  The only difference between the videos and what  I said I was going to build is that I haven't added a weight yet to the rack assembly.
Respectfully,
Carroll
"
I suggest to Floor to build something working first, so we can just replicate and mass produce it.
Or at list a proper set of drawings with dimensions.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: gyulasun on August 01, 2019, 04:42:29 PM
Dear telecom,

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537937/#msg537937

Gyula
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 01, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
Dear telecom,

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537937/#msg537937

Gyula

Hi Gyula,
I couldn't understand the first part of what he suggested.
In the second part, the magnets' array is not going to work because it wont be able
to completely neutralize the repelling rack and pinion magnets.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: gyulasun on August 01, 2019, 05:14:33 PM
Please copy and past the text from the first part you do not understand.
Re the 2nd part: it can only be verified by actual tests and with magnet sizes and ratios Floor wrote.
Gyula
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 01, 2019, 05:42:11 PM
This is what I don't understand:
"
But the orientation / direction of the shield magnet is 90 degrees off.

If you rotated it so that its broad faces were up and down that would be
one of the designs I have presented.  But I don't recommend that.
Because,.....
1. with the magnet shapes you are using,  the sliding magnets
would be too far apart, even when they are pushed toward each other.
2. You would be shielding two magnets with just a single one.
"
If he means placing the shielding magnet perpendicular to the repelling magnets,
this will not work - it will affect the neutralization + greatly diminish the repelling force.
Or something else?
Clear drawing is needed to understand clearly.

In terms of the second part, I agree that there is nothing better than the real test.
The exact drawing with dimensions will also be helpful.
Or even better, a working prototype, rather than teachings.
Title: Re: Magnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 01, 2019, 07:20:09 PM
Just to clarify why I think inserting of the array shield is not going to work.
Both attraction and repelling should be exactly equal for the rack and pinion connected magnets.
In our case, from the left, repelling is 1.5 units, while from the right, the attraction, is only .5 units.
So much for the "teachings".
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: gyulasun on August 01, 2019, 11:19:44 PM
....
If he means placing the shielding magnet perpendicular to the repelling magnets,
this will not work - it will affect the neutralization + greatly diminish the repelling force.
Or something else?
Clear drawing is needed to understand clearly.
...
Yes, he meant perpendicular as you did and indeed the distance between the two facing (repel) magnets would be
too high to make the setup useful. But he did show this variation in a separate video, just to demonstrate that the
shield magnet can be moved in or out with very little input force with that orientation, that was the point:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x59r978  and as he wrote to citfta he did not recommend it due to the big distances.

You can see magnet sizes Floor used earlier in 2017 for tests if you look for it:
https://overunity.com/17070/all-magnet-motor-td-based/msg502026/#msg502026

and read what Floor suggested to citfta
https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537962/#msg537962
but those are for citfta setup...
Nobody will show to anyone a working setup and IMHO it is the principle which is important and Floor did explain it.

Regarding your 1.5 vs 0.5 unit difference instead of equal attract and repel forces, Floor mentioned differences
(due to manufacture or abuse) in magnet strengths to consider and selecting them if needed.

Good luck,
Gyula
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 02, 2019, 12:47:04 AM
Yes, he meant perpendicular as you did and indeed the distance between the two facing (repel) magnets would be
too high to make the setup useful. But he did show this variation in a separate video, just to demonstrate that the
shield magnet can be moved in or out with very little input force with that orientation, that was the point:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x59r978  and as he wrote to citfta he did not recommend it due to the big distances.
Yes , I tried it myself - it slides well, except it doesn't provide any shielding.

You can see magnet sizes Floor used earlier in 2017 for tests if you look for it:
https://overunity.com/17070/all-magnet-motor-td-based/msg502026/#msg502026

and read what Floor suggested to citfta
https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg537962/#msg537962
but those are for citfta setup...

He suggested using double sized magnets for the shield.
The problem is, they will be overpowered at the close distances by the
repelling magnets because the distance between them will be smaller than
between the shielding magnets.

Nobody will show to anyone a working setup and IMHO it is the principle which is important and Floor did explain it.
I would gladly did. In fact, there is something interesting I've noticed when reading
a magnet patent, will post on it later.
Regarding your 1.5 vs 0.5 unit difference instead of equal attract and repel forces, Floor mentioned differences
(due to manufacture or abuse) in magnet strengths to consider and selecting them if needed.

This was referring to the actual sizes of the shield magnets. He went around it by doubling the sizes, but it has another pitfall, as described above.
Looking forward to see how this will be implemented by citfta.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 02, 2019, 02:38:00 AM
The only reliable way to overcome the shield problem is connect two cifta units
back to back, the way they are now.
Then rigidly connect shields.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 14, 2019, 12:52:54 AM
When you stack several small magnets together, the polarity of them getting rearranged,
and out of several small magnets appears one big magnet, divided in the middle with
north/south polarity.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
The only reliable way to overcome the shield problem is connect two cifta units
back to back, the way they are now.
Then rigidly connect shields.

Which citfta unit?
Last I looked,  he had presented 3 variatiions.

Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2019, 08:26:00 AM
I put together two repelling magnets, opposing each other.
I inserted a similar magnet between them.
It was attracted to one magnet, and  simultaneously repelled by another.
I tried pulling it out - the force of pulling out is considerable, so high, that I couldn't pull with my fingers.
Attaching the image - couldn't place camera at the different angle, since one hand was holding the setup.

This is not one of the designs which I had presented. Apparently, it is a misinterpretation one of the designs I presented.  Where that misinterpretation got started ?  Lumen ? Tinman ? and apparently by you as well ?  I don't much care at this point.

Although I have since, addressed it on several accounts, and I'll say it again, for those whats hearing impaired.  Not a design I had presented.

But here is the solution to it's "problems" if you are so inclined as to grok it.

floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2019, 08:43:29 AM
Next......

Will the shielding magnets, prevent the repelling of the
output magnets when it is between them ?

Will the shielding magnets be easilly removed from or
installed into between the output magnets ?

tun in next week
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 15, 2019, 10:43:38 PM
@ Telecom

The only reliable way to overcome the shield problem is connect two cifta units
back to back, the way they are now.
Then rigidly connect shields.

The Newton's magnets topic is intended to address a very narrow vein and a specific line of inquiry.
Thank you for being the one to, move this over to another topic.   The Newton's magnets topic
was not the right place for this discussion.  Definitely  related, and some what relevant, but still off topic.

I see that you had already arrived at a solution to that "problem".

Have I correctly understood your concept / observation ?
and
Does the above drawing (Lumen's innovation 2.png),  adequately / correctly, express / illustrate
a version of your suggested solution ?

Note ..... There are some other solutions.  Yours, I like !

Good eye, nice solution.

floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 16, 2019, 02:12:11 AM
In your diagram I don't quite understand the fine-tuning part, but the rest should
work IMHO.
Forces on each shield should be neutralizing each other, since they act in the opposite directions in A and B.
I would make both shields coaxial rather than parallel to illuminate unnecessary
rotating moments.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: citfta on August 16, 2019, 05:52:45 PM
Hi Telecom,

Maybe this will help you understand better what Floor has been saying.

Carroll
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 16, 2019, 06:11:49 PM
Hi Carroll,
you have a great building skills!
On 3:00 and on, I don't see any indication that this shield actually reducing the repelling force.
I tried this myself on a more crude setup, and also haven't noticed this.
Nevertheless, this is a great demonstration video.
Regards.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 16, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
More explanation of the brute force method.

part 1
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f0md2
part 2
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f0o4w

floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 20, 2019, 10:52:37 PM

Just for clarity...

Pleased as CITFTA has been with his builds / results and I would agree that they are pretty skilfully built.
A nice innovation in the use of the glued down toothed belt as a rack gear and so on........
But once again.
NOT A SINGLE ONE of the 3 videos CITFTA has present, is of a design which I had presented.

Each video has some similarity to one of the designs, but IS NOT ONE OF THOSE DESIGNS.

Not a single one of them is a correct representation of ANY of the designs I had presented.

What do you think the odds are of 3 misinterpretations in a row, like that.

Bad run of luck for CITFTA I'd guess.  I agree with CITFTA's statement that he should maybe give
his self a break from the builds for now.

best wishes

floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 20, 2019, 10:54:29 PM
@Telecom

In your diagram I don't quite understand the fine-tuning part, but the rest should
work IMHO.

Have you watched the videos above ?
floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 21, 2019, 06:23:59 PM
I finally watched the videos, but have a hard time understanding how the tuning magnet works.
Can you please provide a diagram of the setup + forces.
It seems, that when your close field interaction starts to yield no efforts, far field interaction becomes a problem.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 21, 2019, 09:16:21 PM
I finally watched the videos, but have a hard time understanding how the tuning magnet works.
Can you please provide a diagram of the setup + forces.
It seems, that when your close field interaction starts to yield no efforts, far field interaction becomes a problem.

Study up on magnets.

floor
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 21, 2019, 10:07:25 PM
Aren't you here to share your knowledge with us, layman people?
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Floor on August 21, 2019, 10:21:57 PM
"There are takers and there are leavers"   Ishmael

Be tired then, that's up to you, or study, or complain, and that's up to you as well.

What you got out is what you put in, and you got nothing ?

Is this a surprise ?

Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 21, 2019, 10:47:30 PM
"There are takers and there are leavers"   Ishmael

Be tired then, that's up to you, or study, or complain, and that's up to you as well.

What you got out is what you put in, and you got nothing ?

Is this a surprise ?

This is a forum for a free sharing of the information, in a friendly manner.
Not sure why you are here then, if you don't want to share.
You just keep insulting people, showing the other, dark side, of your nature.
And I really don't like this.
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: Thaelin on August 22, 2019, 05:50:03 AM
Descriptions and videos and discussion, I'd have to say that is sharing of info and didn't hold back at all.

thay
Title: Re: Mgnetic shield?
Post by: telecom on August 27, 2019, 07:28:49 PM
The whole idea of replacing fields with forces is misleading, in addition to it applying a Newton's name to this theory.
Plus some visible mistakes, mentioned earlier.