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Author Topic: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery  (Read 5174 times)

Offline contempoarts

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RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« on: February 04, 2013, 01:06:34 PM »
Is it possible to recover RotoVerter Reactive Power or not?  Im looking into bedini generator or quanta charger connected with 3ph motor. I'm not very good in electronics but know the basics. People say once you put load on it the resonance stops and you get nothing out. But they probably used regular generator or car alternator. But there are options of generators that don't create a drag. Specially generator with magnets.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« on: February 04, 2013, 01:06:34 PM »

Online Raycathode

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2020, 01:46:24 AM »
Reactive power Have a look at this Russian speaker's full-bridge device it simply recovers reactive power that would otherwise be wast

with this device, once it recovers the energy it parks it in two capacitors that it uses as storage and the dumps it out on each half-cycle
as AC power the problem is unless you know how this circuit and how the components work you won't get it to work and you will damage the device
unless you use the energy as its produced.

Note I for Educational tests the concept does work but the energy produced in the capacitors needs tuning to the load as SCR's only turn off if there is no energy for them to switch off on the output section.

http://freeenergylt.narod.ru/index/0-12

Note this device runs at mains frequency and the potential it is lethal for the novice, so DO Not Make it I'm just showing and explaining the concept to you
anything you do here is at your own risk and responsibility and i do not accept any responsibility to any costs or damage to you or anyone else involved.

you have been warned,  8) ;D

Raymondo

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2020, 03:49:40 PM »
What about this simple Tesla's circuit?

It has high inductance path S and low inductance path P'.

Where reactive power want to go more?

To go into high inductance path, or to stay in low inductance path,
which is parallel LC resonant tank, C - P'.
Here you can calculate values for C - P' parallel LC resonant circuit, http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.

I think that Tesla solved problem of reactive power, and extraction from LC resonance in one circuit.
What do you think?

Will the one wire output S' disturb the resonance of C - P' , LC resonant tank?
Or you can extract power from resonance this way?
Do you need better usage of reactive power?

If you place ground on output somewhere, does it look familiar?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2020, 03:49:40 PM »
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Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »
Further reading Tesla observations on this circuit,
I notice that he states at section 3, that
he observed power on output much greater than power on input.

The spark gap is removed to obtain better control over frequency.
In Tesla time there was no signal generators, diodes and oscilloscopes.
Spark gap is method to cover more frequency range as well,
so there is no need for precisely adjusting rotation of big generator for specific frequency.

Tesla statements from page 18:

1. If the rate at which the condensers are
discharged is the same as that at which they are charged,
then, clearly, in the assumed case the condensers do not come into play. 

2. If the rate of discharge be smaller than the rate of charging, then, again, the condensers
cannot play an important part.

3. But if, on the contrary, the rate of discharging is greater than that of charging,
then a succession of rushes of current is obtained. 
It is evident that, if the rate at which the energy is dissipated by the discharge
is very much greater than the rate of supply to the condensers.

Now, the question arises.
Did Tesla guessed what happens in paragraph 3.,
or he observed more energy on output than input?

What the reader think?
Is Tesla a liar, and guessing troll, or he actually did it and states his observations?
He said it is evident!
What does that mean?
Guessing or his observation?

I am curious about your opinion?

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 06:18:22 PM »
Could it be more simple?

To solve reactive power issue, resonance, and extracting from resonance,
in one circuit?

And lie about more power on output?

Or, does he lies?

What exactly Tesla's circuit Kapanadze followed,
when he made breakthrough?
Does anyone know?

Why Kapanadze needed high voltage?
Because voltage itself or
because high inductance side of LC resonant circuit to create valve for reactive power?

Maybe Kapanadze also saw this Tesla's statement and decided to follow this path?

Lots of guessing, I think.
But, then, who knows, isn't it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 06:18:22 PM »
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Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2020, 07:12:58 PM »
What if we place spark gap at wrong place,
let's say we made a mistake.
And hit the right frequency for P'-C resonant circuit to resonate.

What will happen?

Online Raycathode

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 10:39:39 PM »
What if we place spark gap at wrong place,
let's say we made a mistake.
And hit the right frequency for P'-C resonant circuit to resonate.

What will happen?
What will happen, NOTHING will happen simply because of where you have put the spark gap! The cap will never charge.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 10:39:39 PM »
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Online Raycathode

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 10:45:48 PM »
What about this simple Tesla's circuit?

It has high inductance path S and low inductance path P'.

Where reactive power want to go more?

To go into high inductance path, or to stay in low inductance path,
which is parallel LC resonant tank, C - P'.
Here you can calculate values for C - P' parallel LC resonant circuit, http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.

I think that Tesla solved problem of reactive power, and extraction from LC resonance in one circuit.
What do you think?

Will the one wire output S' disturb the resonance of C - P' , LC resonant tank?
Or you can extract power from resonance this way?
Do you need better usage of reactive power?

If you place ground on output somewhere, does it look familiar?
This circuit won't do anything either the second coil needs a tuning cap and you need a charging cap and it has no spark gap to dump the energy into the second coil. Also you need to know what you are doing when selecting a tuning cap because you need as much gain as you can get as far as the harmonics are concerned, you need a scope and a frequency generator or some way of knowing whats going on.

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 11:34:43 PM »

Resonant LC circuit does not need spark gap.
With spark gap it is hard to match frequency precisely.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 11:34:43 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2020, 01:45:44 AM »
Resonant LC circuit does not need spark gap.
With spark gap it is hard to match frequency precisely.
Have seen that circuit diagram many times, but just now come to realize something...
The input influences the first primary of low number of turns which induces a high turn, high inductance secondary. Then that sec output sets out to the cap and the second primary of low number of turns and low inductance, which then induces the second secondary to the output.
So thinking about it now, that cap...  It is in parallel to the first secondary(left secondary high inductance) and is in parallel to the second primary(to the right of the cap).
So it looks like there would be 2 resonant events happening with the cap. 1 with the high inductance sec and 2 with the low inductance primary to the right of the cap.
Interesting.  At first I thought hmm, when the cap and second primary ring at high freq, the left sec high inductance would impede that oscillation and not affect that oscillation, which seems to be a good thing for one reason or another. But what might be going on with the oscillations of the cap and the first secondary to the left of the cap there???Is it just occurring and has no influence on the cap and second primary oscillations, or does it?  Like would we want to tune those 2 windings, the secondary coil to the left and the primary to the right of the cap to be in harmonic freq of each other, or might we want to tune them off key of each other?  ???
Just wanted to chime in on what I have thought of it for the first time since seeing it many times before and not seeing that.... ;D   I guess it came from experience that I did not have before now. ;)   Interesting indeed. 

Mags

Offline WhatIsIt

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Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2020, 07:55:00 AM »
Yes Magluvin,

At least somebody understood. You got it right.
This circuit contains more than we can see at first look.
It is much more complex than it looks like.

Cap will resonate with both windings, but that is not true if you look deeper.
If the frequency is 5khz, C = 1uF and low inductance second primary P' is 1mH,
resonance will occur between C and low inductance P'.

But resonance will not occur between C (1uF) and high inductance first secondary S,
because S has more turns (inductance) and won't resonate with C at that frequency!

Reactive power will rather stay in LC parallel tank P' C, because P' provides low resistance path,
while high inductance S is high resistance path.
So, high inductance S will actually block most of reactive power, forcing it to stay in P' C tank.

Because it is one wire output, it won't kill resonance in P' C tank.

What voltage will circulate in P' C tank?

Very high, provided from high inductance S winding.
Parallel tank will produce high current when resonate (parallel LC resonant tank does that),
at high voltage also, from S winding.

So you have high voltage, high current LC parallel resonant tank,
where resonance occur only in P' C,
with ability of S to block most of reactive power, which otherwise goes back to source,
forcing the source to consume more.

High voltage, high current means high power in output winding S'.
What will happen if we use 50Hz, C 100uF, P' 100mH?
How much power will circulate through P' C parallel resonant tank, if the voltage of S is 1000V ???
LTSpice says 48kW.

Original circuit has spark gap, but I removed it and made a joke,
which everyone immediately understood wrong.
Sorry for that.

Now the words of Tesla on that type of circuit maybe has more sense:

But if, on the contrary, the rate of discharging is greater than that of charging,
then a succession of rushes of current is obtained.
It is evident that, if the rate at which the energy is dissipated by the discharge
is very much greater than the rate of supply to the condensers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RotoVerter Reactive Power Recovery
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2020, 07:55:00 AM »
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