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Author Topic: Power from repelling magnets  (Read 22154 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2019, 07:18:38 PM »
This other drawing here too, with two shielded magnets. The shielding can also be iron, how it is worse is that the edge is wider, and thus there may be more negative attraction. But depending on configuration, i don't know whether it's always true.

What can be an iron shielding, a hammer head? With a proper size and shape hammer maybe. Ah, this reminds me. The core laminations of an old transformer. These can also be easily cut.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2019, 07:18:38 PM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #121 on: December 01, 2019, 07:04:14 PM »
The drawing was not the best, so i now refactored it with Inkscape, below. I don't know the exact angle and position, it just shows the principle, it should be tweaked. The principle is that the edges of the mu metals attract, until they overlap each other, then they don't attract any more significantly. Thus one should see a clear acceleration.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2019, 11:04:48 PM »
Ok, does anyone try to find any theoretical problems with it? I see that there is negative attraction, because a shield attracts to another shield even when overlapped. But this must be much less than the force by which the shields attract from the sides, as this attraction is not shielded at all. In addition because the fixed magnet is tilted, its shield will be further away when the moving magnet moves on. This is the whole principle of shielding. And all that matters is more difference between the positive and negative attraction.

Ok, maybe i should explain too, what is on the drawing, as it may not be clear for everyone. The left magnet there is moving. It moves on a fixed trajectory in the direction of the arrow, like a train moves on the rails. This may be linear, or it may also be like on a large disk, so the movement is close to linear. When moving on the fixed track, all that matters are the components of the forces that are parallel to that track. That is every force is seen as two components, one parallel to the track, either in the direction of the arrow (positive direction), or in the direction opposing it (negative direction). The other component is at the 90 degrees angle from it, in case of a disk the "radial force", that does not affect the movement of the moving magnet at all. The right magnet is fixed in place, and doesn't move, it may be called a "stator".

My another thought is, when using a disk, it may be better to have two stators both working in a complete synchronicity. More than two stators likely doesn't give anything, bout further reducing the radial forces, but this is likely less important. Why, because when the attraction happens at the same time at the opposite sides, then the forces compensate each other, and there is less radial force to the bearing.

Any thoughts about the theory by anyone?


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2019, 11:04:48 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #123 on: December 03, 2019, 06:52:34 AM »
From my experience, my theory is similar to that of Howard Johnson
the shield doesn’t just “shield”, it diverts the magnetism through the metal.
This comes at the cost of field strength, but we’ll set that to the side for now.


What also happens is compression.
It is this compression that operates like a set spring
imagine, that the momentum of the approaching magnet
pushes the button of a mechanical ink pen and retracts it


This causes the field to release the magnetic tension (or build up more) until the interacting
field moves out of range.


What must be understood is the difference between field symmetry and magnetic conservation.
An asymmetrical field is symmetrical in its’ asymmetry. or inversely proportionate to the compression.




Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2019, 10:06:49 AM »
From my experience, my theory is similar to that of Howard Johnson
the shield doesn’t just “shield”, it diverts the magnetism through the metal.

Yes the shield doesn't block, it likely does that below. There the field lines that without shield did go up, now go to the side.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #124 on: December 03, 2019, 10:06:49 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2019, 12:36:32 AM »
Exactly.


There will be found some small field effect outside, but imperceptible to most

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2019, 08:03:38 PM »
There will be found some small field effect outside, but imperceptible to most

Yes there are things that we know, but i don't exclude that there can also be things that we don't know. Because we don't know that much about fields and quantum. All the purpose of the research is to find out how it is.

Of course we badly need better and more precise instruments. No hope to measure all these subtle things otherwise, and find out all that happens. We cannot even measure the forces of the shield, how pathetic is that.

My spring scales have not yet arrived. They have 1 newton range, one division is approximately one gram, means that it should be at least possible to measure with the precision 1/4 gram, which may be for some purpose enough.

How the electronic scales and force gauges are made, they use a pressure sensitive resistor, it is that such resistor also reacts to bending a surface. The rest is a non-linear transform by microcontroller, translating the resistance into force. Possible to make such thing, and it's not expensive, but it's a whole separate task.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2019, 08:03:38 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2019, 07:53:15 AM »
A compass is your friend


Not necessarily the kind used for navigation
But a magnetic needle, on a low friction surface
With varying degrees of freedom.


On a string, on a cork in a dish of oil, there are many
methods of making highly sensitive magnetic detectors.
but always keep in mind the offset caused by the earth field

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2019, 08:23:05 AM »
I cannot measure the strength of the force with compass.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2019, 08:23:05 AM »
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Offline Corton

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #129 on: December 14, 2019, 06:52:42 AM »
I have felt for some time that a combination of the right things will made OU happen.

I agree, and my personal belief is this requires the utilization of both forces. that would be attraction and repulsion. As stated by a few on this forum, and others, repelling magnetic fields can act as a compression stage. Magnetic attraction is similar to the expansion stage. I like your concept, and then construction some pages ago with the offset on your scissor device. If you place the device horizontal does it perform the same way?

Keep up the good work.

- Corton

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #130 on: December 15, 2019, 12:16:29 AM »
I cannot measure the strength of the force with compass.


You can measure deflection
Which is proportional to field strength at a given distance

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #130 on: December 15, 2019, 12:16:29 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #131 on: December 15, 2019, 05:38:41 AM »
You can measure deflection
Which is proportional to field strength at a given distance

I don't quite understand what do you mean. I need to measure a force on the disk, in the direction of rotation. Rotation can only be in one direction, or in the opposite direction.

My spring scales have not yet arrived, do they need two months to arrive from china?


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2019, 06:12:54 AM »
The strength of a magnetic field decreases with the square of the distance
If distance is the same, it requires a certain amount of force to deflect the needle
the degree of deflection is directly proportionate to the force, at that distance.
It is an arbitrary proportion, like the rubberband.
Unless you know the moment of inertia of the needle on the substrate.


If your goal is to measure the difference between one side of the field vs the other
This is the best and most accurate tool for the job.


With the disk set-up,
You are working with the leverage of the radius from the fulcrum (bearing)
this is not the same as the linear force.
You will get a measurement, but what are you measuring?




You can also make a vertical set-up, where-in the force measured is a function of
the time derivative of gravity. (stationary gravitational force) E= MGH


It doesn’t have to be direct vertical repulsion
You can use the lift or pull force of a known mass on a string
either wrapped around a shaft or using a pulley, or eye-ring








Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #133 on: December 15, 2019, 06:38:43 AM »
With the disk set-up,
You are working with the leverage of the radius from the fulcrum (bearing)
this is not the same as the linear force.
You will get a measurement, but what are you measuring?

I'm going to measure the tangent force at the distance from the center of the disk equal to the distance of the center of the nut, or another iron object on the disk, from the center of the disk. As it is a tangent force, it may be in practice considered that it is the same as a linear force.

I'm also going to measure the distance from one place the force was measured, to another, in millimeters. How can i measure the distance in millimeters, in spite it is not linear? Again, it's the distance in millimeters moved on the circle, where is the center of the nut, or another iron object.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2019, 01:55:42 PM »
My spring scales arrived. This one is 1 Newton, can measure very weak forces. It did cost $2.85 from ebay. I also got another, 5 Newtons, i really wanted 10 Newtons or greater, but these were the cheapest ones i could get.


 

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