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Author Topic: Power from repelling magnets  (Read 19148 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2019, 05:12:43 PM »
Kolbacict see, the rubber band below was 132 mm long with 200 g weight, i measured it by weighing the pate that i bought. In stores they sometimes have very precise electronic scales, and these are free to use. If only the store doesn't alter the scales to get some benefit, which is unlikely. With the package only the length was 77 mm, and the package weighed almost nothing. Just so that the two sides of the rubber band are almost parallel for the minimum length. It was so with my rubber band, not necessarily with yours. The measured length was all the length of the rubber band, from end to end. Now do some calculations, and apply the Hooke's law, the force in newtons is   (measured_length - 77) / 28.042 .


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2019, 05:12:43 PM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #106 on: November 19, 2019, 05:15:52 PM »
I started the experiment above, of measuring getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field. Unfortunately the forces are too weak (0.01 N and less) to be measured by any means that i can afford, measuring them requires a precise electronic force gauge. The information about that experiment is in that thread  https://overunity.com/18363/getting-energy-from-asymmetry-of-the-magnetic-field-experiment/new/#new ,


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2019, 07:57:00 AM »
Decrease distance =F^2
Get closer until you reach the magnitude of your instruments

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2019, 07:57:00 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2019, 11:01:50 AM »
Get closer until you reach the magnitude of your instruments

It doesn't work. It depends on the field lines, there is no position closer for the disk where is still enough asymmetry.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #109 on: November 22, 2019, 02:20:16 PM »
How to say that, for the disk of that size, there is no position closer to the magnet, where is enough asymmetry. Or at least i couldn't find any. It all depends on the shape of the magnetic field, that is the field lines. To get the disk closer to the magnet and still have enough asymmetry, one may need a smaller disk. But i don't know what it supposed to be.

I used the core of a computer fan, a rather small computer fan. I just took a computer fan and cut off everything from it, except the core. I don't know how to have an even smaller disk. The problem with the computer fan is also that it has a very small ball bearing. Thus the radial forces increase the friction a lot. If the disk were even smaller, the bearing could stuck completely. Maybe there should even be a non-magnetic bearing.

As likely most still read this thread, i say also here. First i could clearly feel the forces with my hand, in spite that they were mostly less than one gram. Second, from any position at the positive side, starting from the 6 o'clock position, it always moved fast to the neutral position. But at any position at the negative side, it did stay in place and didn't move. This indicates less forces at the negative side and less energy when moving through it. This is also how i found the position of the disk with the most asymmetry.

The force of friction should be added to both the positive and negative forces. The problem is that we don't know what the friction under a certain force is, and it is difficult to measure, though by some means it should still be possible. But i think we can safely consider that when the force is less, the radial force is also proportionally less, and thus the friction is less. So in calculation when the positive energy is greater than the negative energy not considering the friction, then it would also be greater when considering friction.

If you ask what the scale there is on the disk, this is just to measure the position of the disk and the distances moved. I drew it using a ruler, so that the units on the line where the center of the nut is, are millimeters. There supposed to be an object next to the disk to show what the position is, what object it should be, frankly i have not yet figured out.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #109 on: November 22, 2019, 02:20:16 PM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2019, 12:33:05 AM »
you won't figure it out,

your perception of the lines of force are incomplete.
I believe they expand in all directions, infinitely.
and it goes in all directions, not N S.
artv

Offline norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2019, 01:45:42 AM »
Ayeaye mentioned the long distance and that is exactly what I have found to be the biggest reason for efficiency less than 200%-300% because distance is a factor of the work out equation. While offline I made a list of my attempts and why they failed and distance was most frequent.

My wife had a long and successful surgery but I'm still dizzy and have to go to bed for several hours to get going some days but through all of this I have never fallen and some parts of the day are functional enough to get something small done like move the grass.

I have plans to resume my work any day unless we are able to travel for Thanksgiving for 6 days with family. I will use a variable lever/compensator to balance/compensate for the non linear attraction of the metal to repelling magnets to also compensate for the longer distance that the metal has to travel like Floor's machine.

I have felt for some time that a combination of the right things will made OU happen. The Finsrud device is an example of that with the ball and magnet and pendulum and gravity pushing the magnet down and kicking the pendulum.

I drool when I see Floor's precision device.

Peace to all. Life is not the same after you have been through serious medical trials.

Norman

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2019, 01:45:42 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #112 on: November 24, 2019, 02:47:44 AM »
your perception of the lines of force are incomplete.
I believe they expand in all directions, infinitely.
and it goes in all directions, not N S.

Yes sure they do. But there are less field lines where the field is less, and iron filings also show that, they gather more to the areas where is more force. And field lines show the direction of the force in any particular area.

Welcome back Norman, good to hear that your wife's surgery was successful.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #113 on: November 24, 2019, 06:39:36 AM »
I believe the “lines” you perceive are a result of the iron.
Finer particles will show “more lines”, though the proportionate
distribution will be maintained.
It is a factor of the field strength and the permeabilityxmass of the particles


It gives us a visual representation of the field shape and strength
But the lines are arbitrary, and don’t really exist in the space as we “see” them.


Personally, I use a laminated “viewer”.
That gives more of a 3-d image of what the field is.


[magnetite taken from sand, ground in a mortar & pestal, mixed with lightweight
  mineral oil and placed between laminate sheets, color can be added]




I think I understand what you are looking for, though your attempts to measure it
seem futile.


any given magnet will “pull” stronger than it repels. Though for it to repel or pull it needs
a counterpart, so measuring that is just as futile.


When you look for asymmetrical field “lines”,
Pay more attention to the boundaries, or the outer extremity of the “effective” field.


^^ is correct in that the field continues into infinity.
However, there is a distance where that doesn’t matter to us big humans.
That’s the edges of the field, as we are concerned with moving anything with it.


The number of lines in-between is just your imagination, it’s the number of lines
the field is able to make out of your iron, that is all.


Smaller iron it can make more “lines”, bigger iron, less

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #113 on: November 24, 2019, 06:39:36 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #114 on: November 24, 2019, 03:48:52 PM »
I think I understand what you are looking for, though your attempts to measure it
seem futile.

Certainly not, it is perfectly measurable.

My spring scales have not arrived yet. Sure spring scales are not very precise, but i would try, maybe i can somehow measure.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #115 on: November 25, 2019, 04:59:33 AM »
I was not very sure whether the force when shifting the shield magnet in the Citfta's experiment was only friction, and thus whether there was overunity when disregarding friction.

Why, because first i'm not really sure what happened there. I don't think that one field shields another, field may change its shape, ok but. As i couldn't see what was the force when shifting the field magnet towards the fixed magnet, so whether there was a difference of force when moving the shield magnet in and moving it out.

Which means that i cannot exclude the possibility that the difference between positive and negative forces was just because of an ordinary shielding. In case of an ordinary shield, maybe twice as much force is necessary when moving shield out, because it is moved next to one magnet, but it is moved out from between two magnets. Also the left magnet attracted to the shield magnet, this also indicates that perhaps partly the shield magnet worked as an ordinary shield. When the effect was because of an ordinary shield, it was not overunity even when disregarding friction.

Sorry, not conclusive there, a better measurement may help to show what was the case. And when the middle magnet really acted as a shield magnet, then i were very interested what the shape of the fields were, and how such shielding really happened.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #115 on: November 25, 2019, 04:59:33 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2019, 03:25:18 AM »
Ok, what about that (figure below)? The object moving may be any iron object. The trajectory may also be a curve, such as a larger disk. Just in principle.

The mu metal changes the field of the pole so that most of the force is to the side, thus more or less horizontal on the figure below. When moving in a line like below, there is positive attraction all the time, until passing the mu metal. After passing the mu metal, there should not be much negative attraction.

I tried it, and indeed i felt very little negative attraction after passing the mu metal, much less than the positive attraction. Again 8 of these 25 mm disk magnets one on another, and two pieces of mu metal that i have one on another, taken from an old hard drive.

Just an idea, maybe i didn't consider something, it is not that i say that this is how it should work. But what i want to say is that the asymmetry that the mu metal provides is different, thus it should also be used in a different way.


Offline citfta

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2019, 01:32:11 PM »
ayeaye,


I kind of get the idea you may not have a lot of money to spend on your research.  But I do have a suggestion to help you.  Find a computer repair shop and ask them for any hard drives they are planning to throw away.  You should be able to get several.  Take them apart and you can get plenty of Mu-Metal.  Each hard drive has two pieces of Mu-Metal with very strong neo magnets on them.  You can most of the time remove the magnet with a hammer and chisel.  I took 3 of them apart yesterday.  I did have one magnet that refused to separate  from the Mu-Metal but the others came loose with a couple of hits from the hammer on the chisel.


I can also tell  you that you are correct, the Mu-Metal will shield the magnetic forces.  Whether you can make a device like you have drawn actually work, I don't know, but it appears it might work.




Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2019, 03:54:56 PM »
I can also tell  you that you are correct, the Mu-Metal will shield the magnetic forces.  Whether you can make a device like you have drawn actually work, I don't know, but it appears it might work.

Thank you.

What many don't perhaps know, is that mu metal, as well as any other shielding such as iron, doesn't really erase the field. What it does is that it takes the field lines inside itself. Like in that case, most of the the field lines that come out of the pole, go into the mu metal, and come out from the edge of the mu metal.

Mu metal works because of the delicate crystal structure in it. It is thus sensitive to shock and vibration, as this may damage that crystal structure. Restoring it requires heating in a gas, which most are likely not able to do. I got my mu metal from a hard drive using pliers. This means that i bent the mu metal a little, i don't know did it damage the mu metal, all i know is that i tested it, and it shields.

It needs to be tested how much the processing damages the mu metal. Such as cutting or filing. Mu metal is otherwise as easy to process as a soft iron, but this sensitivity to processing is a problem. I didn't process my mu metal any way, just used it the shape it is.

I know someone who indeed had a computer repair shop once, and now he has many old hard drives, but he is far away. The mu metal is glued to the magnet in the hard drive. He said that he takes the mu metal out of the hard drive using a sharp blade, thus not beating or bending it. I don't know how he is able to do that though.


Offline citfta

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #119 on: November 27, 2019, 05:06:25 PM »
I imagine your friend put the sharp blade at the edge of the magnet where it contacts the Mu-Metal.  Then a sharp tap with a small hammer or other object will pop the magnet loose.  That is basically what I am doing with a small sharp chisel.


Also check your private messages.  I sent you a message about another subject.

 

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