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Author Topic: Power from repelling magnets  (Read 18777 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2019, 11:45:24 AM »
No one says anything. Can we conclude from that that all disagree yes ;) I must admit, i wonder why people here are not interested, but i myself am not interested. Like i don't so much want to do experiments, because i know they likely cannot provide overunity greater than friction. Also, i think that several experiments already show overunity in permanent magnets that is not greater than friction, based on the asymmetry mentioned above. Thus it is like even confirmed by several experiments. So what's the use, i cannot even surprise anyone. And when i am not interested, then why should i expect that others are interested, rather selfish, isn't it?

Now one may think, doing these experiments and all of a sudden it starts to continuously rotate. Certainly not, all that using this effect in experiments can bring, is overunity that cannot overcome friction, don't expect more. Most importantly we should understand these things. Then we may find a way to achieve continuous rotation, this i think is possible when very well understanding what happens. I have seen such devices, like metal balls going through the field of the magnets with a well adjusted trajectories, they did rotate continuously, though were a very complicated devices. But based on what i know now, i can say that they maybe were not hoaxes. And their authors never said how they worked, kept it in secret, all the advantage seemed to be to surprise other people. And indeed one cannot hope more even when making such device, my concern is increasing the knowledge that the humanity has. Even then there may be no practical use of that continuous rotation.

One thought, an iron object like a screw on that drawing. What if to try an iron cylinder instead, as all this should apply to every atom in the metal. I'm not sure about that, and i don't know the reason why it maybe cannot work.

About the mu metal, i had to talk about it, as static shielding is one way to get asymmetry. I don't know much about it though. It looks like that the mu metal brings inside itself not only the field lines that go away from the magnet, but also some that go towards the other pole. Thus when moving on that vertical line, it like weakens the whole pole, not only the field lines that go away from the magnet. Because the field lines that go both directions are bent to 90 degrees to that line.

So i'm not sure whether mu metal provides more asymmetry at all, than the asymmetry that the magnet already has. Don't expect any miracle when using mu metal either.

What concerns my this experiment  https://archive.org/details/Flcm3  it is a bit simpler than i said earlier, it just has to be measured that the forces near the peak at both directions are equal. One needs a big mug or something to attach the Newton meter (spring scales) to, and then just a thread tied to the Newton meter's hook, or make ones own hook that is proper shape. Then just lift the hook with the thread vertically, in that way it is made sure that no speed is given to the disk by hand movement, in either directions.

The image below comes from the public domain image of spring scales, from the Wikimedia Commons  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Weeghaak.JPG  that can be used to measure forces of magnets.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2019, 11:45:24 AM »

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2019, 03:36:23 PM »
Quote
I have seen such devices, like metal balls going through the field of the magnets with a well adjusted trajectories, they did rotate continuously, though were a very complicated devices.
Finsrud device?

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2019, 04:24:13 PM »
Finsrud device?

I saw some devices called Finsrud device, in youtube. I don't know whether they are the same, may be some roughly made worthless replicas. The one i saw, and i don't remember how it was called, was similar to that. But it looked like much more complicated. The trajectory by which the iron balls go through the magnetic fields, determine how well the asymmetry is used. Well what i see, before the ball comes, the magnet lowers, so the ball enters from the edge of the magnet, where the field is stronger. Then when the ball leaves, the magnet rises, and the field at the center of the magnet is lower. All i can figure, and i cannot be sure that any of these things work at all, but again, i think because of the asymmetry of the field a continuously rotating device may be possible. Anyway, what is necessary to make any continuously rotating device, if ever possible, is understanding these things more.

The best trajectory is likely, from side in, and then straight up. That the Lafonte scissors device that Norman made, seems to show the best. This trajectory is difficult to implement in any device. When using an iron object like a nut, not a magnet, the best may be a small disk, that rotates so that the object enters from the side, and then moves up.

A big mug, well, i don't know how precisely the distance of a mug can be adjusted. Then there can be a bolt, with a nut on it, something. Turning that bolt changes the length of a string, allowing to change the distance more precisely. Just something that i figure, may not be the best, such things require to figure out things sometimes, and be creative.

I used to use only a mounting tape, to attach everything, it can be easily removed, and things changed. Like one can attach a hook to the edge of a disk, with a mounting tape, to fold it twofold around the end of the wire, perhaps with the end of the wire bent, then stick that to the disk, it stays well in that way, i have tried it.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 06:50:40 PM by ayeaye »

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2019, 04:24:13 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2019, 12:00:42 PM »
http://vitanar.narod.ru/dumy_o_motore/dumy_o_motore.html

It looks like that the Finsrud device is described wrongly there, or the author doesn't understand it. Lowering the magnet when it is attracting, takes energy, there cannot be overunity in that case. Except when the magnet is moved towards the area with a lower magnetic field at the pole. Without asymmetry of the field such device can no way work, whether it works at all, i don't know.

An iron ball is good in that it has low friction. One may try a rotating iron ball instead of a disk, though i'm not sure how good it is. One disadvantage is that i have no idea how to extract energy from a moving iron ball. With a disk that has a magnet on it it's simple, just put a coil near it.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2019, 12:00:42 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2019, 01:31:43 PM »
An improved image of the spring scales, again this image is public domain. Spring scales are accurate because they are always linear by the Hooke's law.

Nothing else, and what else, as no one is interested. When an overunity greater than friction, and also continuous rotation, cannot be achieved, then likely no one is interested. And i don't know whether a continuous rotation can be achieved, all i know is that the way to achieve that, is to research these things thoroughly. Because continuous rotation if possible, likely requires an exact choosing of parts and solutions. That someone tries and accidentally achieves that, this is highly unlikely, for that one should know exactly what one is doing. That's all i can say, whether continuous rotation is possible or not i cannot say.

No voices against either. Where are all the vigilant scientists who always enforce the first law of thermodynamics, all seem to be silent, none has anything to say. I don't know whether thermodynamics works at zero point, but when something comes from the zero point, then it should be considered an unknown source, because not much is known about zero point, thus overunity.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 04:12:57 PM by ayeaye »

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2019, 09:12:37 PM »
Hi ayeaye,

Quote
No voices against either. Where are all the vigilant scientists who always enforce the first law of thermodynamics, all seem to be silent, none has anything to say.

please don't encourage them, maybe the checks have stopped rolling in to pay them, or the tides are turning towards the light of truth.
peace love light  :) 

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2019, 09:12:37 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #82 on: November 11, 2019, 01:50:54 PM »
I'm sorry, maybe i was not accurate. As i understand, when doing static measurements, that is when we don't move the object during the measurement, to get the real force, friction should always be added to the measured force. And friction is of course greater, when the radial force to the bearing is greater.

I tried a small disk with the computer fan ball bearings, a nut on the disk, and 8 of the 25 x 5 mm ceramic disc magnets one on another. When the magnet was at a certain angle, and at a certain distance, i saw that the attraction was somewhat greater in one direction than in the other direction. The speed with which it attracted was greater. The magnet had to be at some distance, there was no noticeable difference of forces when the magnet was near the disk. It didn't make the disk to rotate of course, couldn't overcome friction, and maybe also inertia. I felt that the forces there were likely great enough, so that they can be measured. That's all i can do, as i still have no spring scales and nothing to measure the forces.


Offline shylo

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2019, 02:19:53 PM »
That's why I'm trying to build a magnetically floating rotor.
A very difficult task,without any input.
I still have more idea's, I just wish I had more time and resources.
I believe it is possible, no bearings, and reduced Lenz, Lenz free is impossible. IMO
Lenz is just another form of friction.
artv

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2019, 02:19:53 PM »
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Online sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2019, 09:21:37 AM »
Ayeaye
The field ‘wants’ to be spherical, round magnets help but
any magnet will round out at some distance away


And when we interact at rotating, round, angles
magnetic force can most certainly be unidirectional


The particular angle of interaction will vary with radiuses
But it is essentially the magnetic equivalent of a gravitational ‘slingshot’
The field is bi-polar, so we consider only a portion of 1/2 of the radius for the maneuver

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2019, 12:07:00 PM »
The field ‘wants’ to be spherical, round magnets help but
any magnet will round out at some distance away

Yes but when you are near it, then it is asymmetric, and this causes overunity.

I want to measure the energies of positive and negative attraction, i will when i get the spring scales, and can afford the time. Several experiments though likely already show overunity due to asymmetry of the field. None of which can overcome friction, but for me it has a theoretical importance. And whatever may be the case, we have to make this first step first.


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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2019, 12:07:00 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2019, 12:56:30 PM »
Quote
as i still have no spring scales and nothing to measure the forces.
Isn't it made of plank and spring?

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2019, 01:15:34 PM »
Isn't it made of plank and spring?

It is in fact made only of spring, and whatever on which one can write the scale. Can also be a rubber band instead of a spring, the Hooke's law applies all the same. But i don't have a spring either, and even if i had, i want to use a standard one, because of all the doubts there can be when i use one made by myself.

The simplest is like that  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwCwwKLa0GE  but the problem with that is that the rubber band goes against the board, that should never happen during the measurement. So more ingenuity should be used to improve it.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2019, 02:08:18 PM »
But it is essentially the magnetic equivalent of a gravitational ‘slingshot’

No. The gravitational slingshot uses the speed of the planet, to accelerate. If we approach a planet in the direction of its movement, then it accelerates us by attraction. Then if we change our direction shortly before passing the planet, then we avoid most of the negative attraction, because the planet moves further from us, and its attraction decreases. The gravitational slingshot uses the speed of the body, not an asymmetry of the field, the gravitational field can be symmetric.


Online sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2019, 01:36:14 AM »
No. The gravitational slingshot uses the speed of the planet, to accelerate. If we approach a planet in the direction of its movement, then it accelerates us by attraction. Then if we change our direction shortly before passing the planet, then we avoid most of the negative attraction, because the planet moves further from us, and its attraction decreases. The gravitational slingshot uses the speed of the body, not an asymmetry of the field, the gravitational field can be symmetric.


The movement of the planet is irrelevant, as only the relative motion between us and the planet matters. It is in fact, impossible to distinguish wether it is us or the planet in motion.
It is the relative motion and gravitational attraction that relates to our quest.
If we encounter the field and begin attracting (or repulsion), then exit the field at an accelerated rate,
The attraction imparts energy into the moving magnetic mass.
This can be achieved using fixed arc-vectors
Field symmetry doesn’t need to be considered, because the interaction takes place entirely on one side of the meridian.




 

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