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Author Topic: Power from repelling magnets  (Read 18151 times)

Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 02:07:41 PM »
ayeaye - I can but I'm more interested in scaling up. Remember I use weight down vs weight up x distance so that measurement cannot be disputed.

Scaling up is not important at this stage. It is first important that the measurements are correct and this is often the most difficult task. Show the measurements, make a video that shows the measurements. Whether it can be disputed or not, will be found out after you do that. People will estimate by your evidence, how much overunity there is, whether there is any and what is the efficiency then, and how much, if any, is dependent on the hand movement. Measurement is not an easy task, but it is the most important.

Please understand, likely many are interested, if there may be overunity, it is very interesting to find out.

If it doesn't work, please show also, Lafonte doesn't work, important to know.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 07:42:56 PM by ayeaye »

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2019, 02:07:41 PM »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2019, 10:32:58 PM »
I'm making progress but not as fast as I would like. The problem is when two magnets that are close together approach each other from one side they flip from attract to repel before they attract and visa versa for repelling magnets. So I am back to the linear setup which is not easy to make. The magnets have to stay equal distance from the controlling device or it will get stuck.

I sure have learned a lot since July.

Norman

Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2019, 03:02:32 PM »
Yes, do the simplest, and then it's still complex. Whenever more than two magnets interact, like Lafonte, always unexpected things happen. I should say that Lafonte is right now above my theory. I can say that there should be overunity due to asymmetry (two poles) in the magnetic fields. I can show how this can result in overunity in case of two magnets (see above). But how it plays out in case of more than two magnets, that's a more difficult question.

I'm all interested though. Only one should here wait and wait and wait again, always.

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2019, 03:02:32 PM »
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Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2019, 07:04:38 PM »
Nothing? Try to measure something, anything... And measurements can be static, you don't have to balance anything, just measure the force at different fixed positions... Force multiplied by distance is energy. Maybe force can be measured by weights, the weight that causes magnets to separate, etc, i have never thought about that.

Offline citfta

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2019, 07:59:40 PM »
Ayeaye,


I posted a video on Floor's magnet, motion and measurement thread showing real measurements.  What have YOU done with that information?  Probably nothing.  If you want a bunch of measurements done then BUILD something and take all the measurements you want.  I am so tired of the non-builders making demands of the few of us that are actually doing something.  WE don't owe YOU anything.  I am sure when Norman feels more like it he will get back to building.


Carroll

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2019, 07:59:40 PM »
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Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2019, 10:02:26 PM »
I posted a video on Floor's magnet, motion and measurement thread showing real measurements.

Where is your video? Do you mean the thread "Magnets, motion and measurement" in mechanic? I did read that thread, though maybe not thoroughly enough, didn't yet find your video, but i will look for it. Did you see my video?

I'm sorry but, i don't force anyone to do anything. Just posted my two cents in hope that it may help. Don't start a conflict please, i know how it starts and why. Assuming you are a good guy, i do, i know some here are not. When the things are complex, everyone has their doctrine how they deal with it. And they contradict each other and cause conflict. Try to avoid that please. What i say, everyone is free to disagree with, the same about what anyone else says. Please try to work together, instead of creating any unnecessary divisions, please.

What concerns me doing things, i have done things, you see them here. How much i should do for it to be enough? I did but i cannot afford time for that right now, i'm sure this is true about several others, please please don't accuse them. The same may happen one day to these who do experiments now. They cannot afford the time to do experiments, yet they can afford to say what they know or what they think. I think that's fine.

All i'm about, i'm about research. I'm very interested in research.

And many thanks to Norman for what he did. Good that people know the things. These threads though, people read them who are interested in similar things, thus theory should be talked there, for people to see. Furthermore, this thread was posted in the theory subforum, not in the devices subforum, so the more there can be talk about theory and general things, not only about particular experiments.

Hey, be friends. Thank you.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2019, 11:31:20 PM »
Where is your video? Do you mean the thread "Magnets, motion and measurement" in mechanic? I did read that thread, though maybe not thoroughly enough, didn't yet find your video, but i will look for it.
....
It is two pages back in that thread:  https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg538952/#msg538952

Useful video and I appreciate it, thanks Carroll and also Norman for sharing.  Hopefully Norman has been recovering nicely.

Gyula 

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2019, 11:31:20 PM »
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Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2019, 11:38:43 PM »
It is two pages back in that thread:  https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg538952/#msg538952

So it's that video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ChN24x_HU&feature=youtu.be

Absolutely great video, Citta ! I have not analyzed it very thoroughly, but i think that's it, you did it :)

You certainly don't owe me nothing, but talking about my video that i mentioned, see my this drawing  https://ia800903.us.archive.org/22/items/Flcm4/pmmbp12.jpg . This shows how the asymmetry of the magnetic field (two poles) can enable overunity. In theory any asymmetric field can do continuous work, this is one way how a magnetic field can do it. I'm sure that the effect that you showed is based on the same asymmetry. I have not thoroughly analyzed your case, but i showed the theoretical reason in the simplest case, involving only two magnets.

Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2019, 05:37:16 PM »
Absolutely great video, Citta ! I have not analyzed it very thoroughly, but i think that's it, you did it :)

citfta*

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2019, 05:37:16 PM »
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Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2019, 04:21:27 PM »
norman6538 or anyone who can afford it, would you please replicate the ctfta experiment, or do a similar experiment. It looks credible and very well done. But replication is formally necessary and as important, if not more important than the original experiment.

This excellent linear movement by ball bearings, i'm not a metal worker and i cannot do that. This is why i suggested to use pressure sensitive resistors. I said if a good enough dynamic movement cannot be made, it may be possible to make it static. Then measure forces at static positions using pressure sensitive resistors. Or scales like ctfta did, by measuring the force necessary to make a magnet to move. In that case it needs the magnet to slightly move, may though be possible to do that reliably.

Below is the drawing of the citfta experiment, made with dia. The shield magnet is slided in between the two magnets perpendicular to the surface of the drawing. Theoretically that should also need no force, in the reality it may need some. It looks like that it should work, that would be great, hope it's not yet another waste of the time,

With the magnets that i have i tried, seemed to be some two times difference, but it is difficult to decide that when the magnets are not fixed in place.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 09:51:46 PM by ayeaye »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2019, 12:44:28 AM »
I'm making slow progress because I have 2 unresolved medical problems and now my wife needs surgery too. I made about  20 different versions combining 1. my work 2. Lafonte balancing, 3. some Floor ideas too. They must be robust/strong and precise or it will not perform. I'm looking ahead to harvesting the power out. If things don't fall apart here at home I expect performance numbers midweek next week. But that will not be power fed back in.

Please be patient, you will like what you see.
Norman

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2019, 12:44:28 AM »
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Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2019, 01:08:22 AM »
Norman, it may not be for you the right time to do these things. Things are exciting but, only these can do these things who can afford the time. I think you better wait when your problems pass, then there will be time.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2019, 06:11:41 PM »
http://www.geocities.ws/k_pullo/
Probably of interest  ! If not : delete it  !

Online ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2019, 06:53:53 PM »
http://www.geocities.ws/k_pullo/
Probably of interest  ! If not : delete it  !

This seems to be similar to my theory, see my drawing  https://ia800903.us.archive.org/22/items/Flcm4/pmmbp12.jpg  and the experiment i did  https://archive.org/details/Flcm3  that seemed to show overunity, only it was done by hand and the peak force also felt by hand. So anyone can repeat it to see for oneself, but properly it should be replicated with triggering independent of the hand movement, and the force measured by a pressure sensitive resistor. The overunity there were, if true, was not great enough though to overcome friction.

My general idea is, that an asymmetric field may do continuous work. Magnetic field is asymmetric field because it has two poles. However, like if we model it with a Gilbert or Coulumb model, the sum of energy when modeling my experiment will most likely be zero. But the matter is, the real magnetic fields differ from the Gilbert model, maybe in that the field lines between the two poles are more parallel to the axis between the poles. And such field likely is asymmetric enough to do continuous work.

Then furthermore, the overunity, if any, may be caused by the fact that the electrons in a dipole don't fall to the nucleus, even when they do work. I also showed the reason why this energy supposed to come from the zero point energy. This electrons orbiting the nucleus is also what makes the magnetic field asymmetric, that is having two poles. And this applies everywhere where the magnetic dipoles are involved, in permanent magnets, solid state devices, and even mechanical devices, as the magnetic interaction between atoms causes elasticity.

That said, overunity may not be anything special. When we drop an object, the gravitational field does work, where this energy comes from? Then it may also come from zero point energy, and when we lift the object, we work against the field and the energy goes back to zero point energy. So it may not be about overunity, just a way how to get continuous work, and this requires an asymmetric field.

Though regardless how the overunity may occur in permanent magnets, it is likely always caused by the fact that the magnetic field is asymmetric (has two poles). Another effect that this Lafonte, citfta, etc, show, it that it is theoretically possible for a pole of another magnet to move between two poles perpendicularly to the axis between the poles, without encountering any force at all. This is also due to the fact that the magnetic field is asymmetric, and has two poles. And that said last is true even in the Gilbert or Coulumb model. Unfortunately though, as it appeared in measurements in the citfta experiment, for some reason in practice it is very difficult to approach this theoretical zero force even nearly.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2019, 07:15:03 PM »
Probably this inventor and artist shows and discuss " fuel free magnetic device"-s :
https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=9918

 

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