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Author Topic: Power from repelling magnets  (Read 25480 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #135 on: December 23, 2019, 04:58:19 AM »
What have you learned since your scales arrived?

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #135 on: December 23, 2019, 04:58:19 AM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #136 on: December 25, 2019, 02:27:28 PM »
What have you learned since your scales arrived?

The force is not measurable with these scales, in spite these are a very sensitive scales. There is nothing i can do, i cannot see any movement on the scale at all. I feel with fingers, there is force, i can say when it's weaker or stronger, there clearly is force, but too weak to be measured with these scales.

I don't know what to do, a huge magnet and a big nut, then the force is most likely measurable with such scales. But i don't have such huge magnet.

One thing, the hook of these scales is made of a non-magnetic material. I don't know what it is, but it is not attracted by magnet. I thought that i have to make an additional hook from a copper wire or something, but no need, one can put the hook directly inside that nut.

I found that a matchbox put there with the corner, can be used to show the angular position. Not the best, and sure a better solution can be found, but will do.

Another thing that i thought, maybe to put an additional paper disc inside the scales, near the hook side, that will show the reading. That way it is easier to capture the experiment by camera, only the end of the scales have to be in the visible area. And it can be done with the precision that the measurements can be seen, without moving the camera. Then just make a video of moving the disk like millimeter or two millimeters at a time, stopping each time. This video will show all measurements, nothing more would be necessary.

One slight problem with these scales. When they are horizontal, the red plastic disc (around the hook rod that shows the reading) goes slightly against the tube. Very slightly, and it likely doesn't change the measurements, even when small. But it shouldn't be, for it to be perfect, the disc should be either made smaller, or replaced by a smaller disc.

How it is feasible to do the experiment, this is all important.


Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #137 on: December 26, 2019, 02:21:37 AM »
Ayeaye make your own scales. I like variable levers which can be very sensitive. Take a  dowel and put a hole through it for an axle then drill a hold in the side so that you can insert an arm  like a popsicle stick or wooden coffee stirrer (which can also be glued to the end of the dowel). then you can make several holes in the arm for various leverages. And you can hang various weights off those holes. Then mount the axle in a pivot and wrap a string around the dowel and attach it to the device being measured or a weight and attach the opposite to the other end. I have a photo but can't post it now. ask for the photo if you don't understand how to use this sensitive device. What happens is the leverage changes as the arm rotates and there is a balance point where it will just sit there. or either extreme will dominate. With your super brain you should have no questions nor need a photo.

Happy and Healthy New Year everybody,
Norman - not so healthy

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #137 on: December 26, 2019, 02:21:37 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #138 on: December 26, 2019, 04:28:49 AM »
Ayeaye make your own scales.

I know it is possible to make one's own scales, but it's too difficult, for so small forces.

It is important to measure these forces, one can make devices no matter how many, where one can feel the forces by one's hand, but what does it give? Who doubt in them, remain skeptical, when there is no measurement. A measurement showing gain of energy even when disregarding friction, is thus so important.

Again, in your Lafonte scissors both pairs of magnets attract, did i understand correctly? Assuming that it is so.

If so, it shows the same effect. Separating two magnets when moving by axis takes less energy, than approaching from the side gives. So what is necessary is to measure energy in both cases, maybe it's possible, and maybe the forces there are strong enough to be measurable. What is necessary for such measurements, a small linear bench?

Happy New Year you too, and health.

Below is a better photo of my spring scales, made with a digital camera. Better than i could make with the webcam, in the lighting conditions. What is important is that only having the scales enables me to post the image of it here, as all the images available are in a way or another copyrighted, and cannot be posted here. So this enables you to see a photo of real spring scales, with a 1 Newton range.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 06:39:02 AM by ayeaye »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #139 on: December 26, 2019, 06:37:05 AM »
Have you measured your force?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #139 on: December 26, 2019, 06:37:05 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #140 on: December 26, 2019, 06:42:31 AM »
Have you measured your force?

No, i said i tried. But the force is so small that i don't even see the disc in the spring scales move. In spice that i can clearly feel the force by my hand.


Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #141 on: December 26, 2019, 12:55:15 PM »

Ayeaye said "Again, in your Lafonte scissors both pairs of magnets attract, did i understand correctly? Assuming that it is so."  - false assumption. get off the keyboard and make one and then you will learn something. One attracts and the other repels but always at the same distance so they are always balanced just like the scissors. But I prefer the linear ones because they are easier to adjust and there is not angle changes.

Norman

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #141 on: December 26, 2019, 12:55:15 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #142 on: December 26, 2019, 01:56:02 PM »
false assumption

Thank you, i needed to know that. Thus one pair of magnets in the Lafonte scissors attracts, and the other repels. So this is like balancing forces. Both opening and closing the scissors needs very little force. But when it is only balanced forces, then there likely is not much output energy.


Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #143 on: February 01, 2020, 05:48:20 PM »
My health has recovered enough to continue my work started here. I am trying to
 exploit the power between 2 repelling magnets when they push apart by first
  inserting metal to make them attract onboth sides and then when the metal is removed they
  will separate and release the power for our use. My work is always rapid
   prototype and crude but here is a peek at what I accomplished. The third
   photo shows the entire setup. The first photo shows the variable lever setup.
The second photo shows the basic device setup that has 2 repelling magnets with
 metal between them.  A bell crank with connecting rods makes them open and
 close equally together. Then off to the right not seen but in the second photo
  is a variable lever with a RadioShack magnet (weight only) to counter balance the
  attraction forces of the magnets to metal. Then adding a 3/16 nut is enough
  to make the arm drop 1.25 inches. That pulls the metal away so that the
  repelling magnets separate to lift the output variable lever. Then not seen
  behind   is another variable lever attached to those magnets which lifts 6 of
 the same magnets 1/2 inch. Which means that using
 (1 nut x 1.25 in travel is a unit of work) 1 unit lifts 6 magnets 1/2 inch.
   Thus 1.25 units in / 6 x .5 = 3 giving a ratio of 240% work out vs in.
   I have achieved this with 2 other permanent magnet devices but its not
   enough to reset and repeat to make continuous motion. BUT IT IS OVER UNITY.

I will try to refine this to do better because the variable levers are not
precisely configed. I used what was lying around from past projects. They need
to be sized for the mechanical travel distance to match about 1/4 the
circumference of the circle. The film canister in the input is too big and
needs to be down sized and the output might be too small. If you hook 2 equal
variable levers to each other they will balance no matter where they are
positioned just like 2 equal weights on a pulley and string.
I use adjustable stops on the left to keep the metal from dragging
on the magnets and requiring more work in.

The last photo shows the output variable lever with 5 nuts like the 1 input nut.
And the yardstick has 2 sets of markings - blue is the distance lifted for
the output and masking tape is the nut dropped distance markings

I hope this will encourage you to do your own work to get power from permanent
 magnets.

If I had a fraction of the money spent this weekend on "the game" I would have
 a self runner.
 
 The leverage on the variable lever changes as the arm moves from horizontal where
 its max leverage occurs. The leverage is not the radius of the arm but the
 distance of the weight to the axle. At horizontal leverage is maxed but at 85
 degrees either up or down the leverage is very little and thus is intended to
 approximate the magnet closer stronger, further weaker characteristic.

Norman
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 03:20:54 AM by norman6538 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #143 on: February 01, 2020, 05:48:20 PM »
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Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #144 on: February 04, 2020, 08:46:38 AM »
Since my heart/breathing/circulation has improved so much I am on a roll again. I realized that my film tube had too much travel and not enough angle change in the movement so I made a smaller one which gives more angle/leverage change and I am working on multiple weights at various leverages to match the closer stronger magnetic attraction characteristic. So in this photo you can see the beginning of this and what it means. There are 3 different weights at 3 different leverages. The arm/weights are balanced at this point but as the arm goes down to horizontal the 2 weights on the left are not necessary so I will "sit them on a floor" so that they are not a penalty when going back up.
see photo for the idea. I will use strings to hold the weights which will "sit them on a floor".
So when the forces are balanced out just adding a small weight will make the arm drop and removing it will allow it to go back up to repeat the cycle.

My real purpose in all of this is to demonstrate that not all energy is conserved in all cases.
So in this concept a balance is made between magnetic forces, gravity (could be springs), and variable leverage such that we release the magnetic repel power with a smaller force.

Norman
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 04:16:00 PM by norman6538 »

Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2020, 04:43:49 AM »
I'm sorry to say that my bellcrank is too sloppy and looses a lot of work out and I don't know how to make a better one.

So I picked up on Floor's twist drive and quickly cobbled two somethings  together today that is more promising than my power from repelling magnets.

You can see it here. https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg543093/#msg543093

Hope you find it interesting. Floor has done a great job on his research and sharing it with all of us.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2020, 04:43:49 AM »
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Online norman6538

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Re: Power from repelling magnets
« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2020, 01:00:55 AM »
I am on version 6 of Floor's twist drive and I made a variable lever with 3 different dowel diameters to be able to refine the power to set and reset the device and this is what I measured today.
1. The device is self setting. ie meaning take my had off and it goes from unset to set and twist and lift a small washer 12.5 cm.
2. to then unset and unlock from the twisted attraction it takes the same washer 2 cm of drop.
3. so that clearly gives 10 extra units of work for the switching necessary to make it self run.

The extra work is more than there.
Next I will begin my clock  work to make it switch from lifting to resetting mode making it a self runner with extra power out too.

Norman

Online norman6538

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Power from Floor's Twist Drive twisting magnets
« Reply #147 on: February 25, 2020, 02:22:10 AM »
I use a given weight that drops 1 cm and via "Floor's Twist Drive" lifts 4 of the same weights 7 cm. which I call 28 units of work out. That would be 2,800% OU. It takes 6 units to make this repeat itself - 1 to set and lift and 5 to reset to repeat step 1.

But if there were some error in my numbers and even 500% were achieved then cascading this again and again would reach several thousand units over the input.

I will have someone I trust to verify the numbers soon.

Norman

Online norman6538

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Power from Floor's Twist Drive twisting magnets
« Reply #148 on: February 25, 2020, 04:56:09 PM »
Today I have changed some things and derived 4,000% efficiency by dropping a weight 1 cm which moves a magnet closer to a twistable magnet which then lifts 20 of the same weights 2 cm giving a 1:40 ration.

Attached is a concept drawing without all the leverage details. I am now working on automatic switching to make it switch from that  excess work and run by itself.

I WANT TO THANK FLOOR AGAIN FOR SHARING ALL OF HIS WORK THAT MADE THIS  POSSIBLE.

Norman
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 07:49:08 PM by norman6538 »

Online norman6538

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Re: Power from Floor twisting magnets
« Reply #149 on: February 26, 2020, 10:41:05 PM »
See more details on my Floor replication here.
https://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg543369/#msg543369
Norman

 

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