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Solid States Devices => Resonance Circuits and Systems => Topic started by: ramset on July 16, 2019, 03:13:34 AM

Title: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 16, 2019, 03:13:34 AM
Here it has been requested by TinselKoala that a separate thread be started to discuss this device.

much gratitude and appreciation to the builder.
respectfully  Chet K
 

 
Title: Re: TK's AKDS SSSTC build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 09:58:58 AM
This is actually A.King's project, not mine. 

The photos are of my construction, yes, but HE is the one who wants to discuss it, mostly by challenging my work and telling me I'm doing it wrong. I'm not playing that game, so this is a good place to start if anyone is really interested in another Slayer/Kacher/SSTC but do NOT expect me to jump through hoops on the demands of others. I am NOT the one making extraordinary claims about this thing. My opinion right now is that it is what it is, a simple SSTC of the Slayer Exciter type, autoresonating, and as we all know, the _first time_ a bunch of grad students build and try to test a Slayer exciter, they will encounter all kinds of things that they probably never saw before, in their little digital EE classrooms and laboratories working with 5 volts and under.

And all of us who have been around a while have learned to be really suspicious of claims of Free Energy and Overunity coming from users of the Cyrillic alphabet.

So carry on, I'd really like to see A.King do some of his own work to demonstrate anything really unusual from this circuit or the others in the paper he references. His OWN work, not mine. If he can demonstrate something that I find unusual or particularly interesting I might set up and look at it again. As I recall, this project blew out a few bulbs, and melted some glass bulb envelopes, but I'm careful with my power transistors so I don't think I lost any to this Exciter.  Right now it looks like I've got a TIP35C in there but I think the typical CRT horizontal output transistors may work better. I didn't do a lot of transistor comparisons I think, but I really don't remember at this point.

So Chet, I would feel better if you retitled this thread, make it A.King's, because I have other, more important things to do. Life, unfortunately, is short.
(I will say that this project was a stage in the development of the EEEE apparatus.... )
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 16, 2019, 01:02:22 PM
Tinsel hi, any chance you can show or discuss on this project or the other device you mentioned and or the EEEE device please.
the other thing is the circuit you show produces a sine wave would it be any better or worse using a negative going pulse ?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 01:09:23 PM
Here it is folks seeing as you've twisted my arm.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Grumage on July 16, 2019, 01:13:41 PM
Tinsel hi, any chance you can show or discuss on this project or the other device you mentioned and or the EEEE device please.
the other thing is the circuit you show produces a sine wave would it be any better or worse using a negative going pulse ?

Mr AlienGrey.

Try this for starters.

https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg516320/#msg516320

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 01:26:51 PM
Grumage:  Not  very useful as it detracts from the principle of operation which is the Don Smith effect.  It s useful if a phase locked loop is applied to the initial coil which is stage 1 of the process.  Stage 2 is the DSE proper.


The principle of operation in the first two stages of the Don SMith process is known as the DSE.  This is actually a Carlos Benitez invention from his first patent in 1914.  It is called electrostatic induction. If you pulse one plate of the capacitor then the other plate gets an equal and opposite charge from the ambient background.  This could be the air, a plate or the chassis of the device or an earth ground.
it is NOT capacitative coupling which is to be avoided.
The DSE works much better during the day than at night.  ( I have proved it). this is because there are more electrons available in the day due to sun activity.
Depending on the electron activity in your location it works better on high ground as electron activity is greater the higher your location above sea level.
The DSE is buy one get one free minus system losses.


HAVE AT IT.


My thanks to Rick Friedrich and his Don Smith book for doing all the hard work. Well done sir you have my eternal thanks.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Grumage on July 16, 2019, 02:37:09 PM
My apologies.

I was merely pointing Mr AlienGrey to the reference given by Mr TinselKoala.

There will be no more interference from the " cheap seats. "   :)

Cheers Grum.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 02:42:31 PM
......
the other thing is the circuit you show produces a sine wave would it be any better or worse using a negative going pulse ?
If you look at item 5 in the original diagram you wil see a spark gap.  This is designed to produce the disruptive discharge which Tesla talked about. So yes you are correct.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 03:01:38 PM
If you look at item 5 in the original diagram you wil see a spark gap.  This is designed to produce the disruptive discharge which Tesla talked about. So yes you are correct.
Maybe I'm going blind but the only spark gap I see in the whole pdf is the one in the very first diagram Figure 1, the Don Smith alleged diagram. This is not going to produce what Tesla called a disruptive discharge, and that brings up another of my pet peeeves. Whatever you have been talking about it isn't a Telsa Disruptive Discharge. You've been listening to Master Ivo, haven't you. You might think so, but this apparatus cannot produce a real disruptive discharge in any of the schematics or described constructions in the pdf.  If you want to see how to produce a real Tesla disruptive discharge it takes a little more than winding some wire around a mailing tube. See the work of George Trinkaus if you actually want to do that.

And of course the authors of the paper DID NOT USE that diagram, or that spark gap. "The study was conducted according to the schematic in Fig. 2" which is a simple Slayer Exciter, with NO spark gap.  Neither did they have a spark gap in any of the other Slayer Exciter circuits Figures 3-6.

When one does a "replication", one replicates the work actually done, yes? Not some speculative schematic that does not even relate to what is being actually built by the original claimants.


Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 03:06:52 PM
My apologies.

I was merely pointing Mr AlienGrey to the reference given by Mr TinselKoala.

There will be no more interference from the " cheap seats. "   :)

Cheers Grum.
You can lead a horse to water.....   

And I've said what I'm saying too.  I'm sure Master Ivo and RF can help AKing get his don smith device running.

But will it be OU?  I guess you will just have to ask somebody else, because the only overunity I know about is Joules Out > Joules In. So you'll have to use somebody else's definition if you want OU.

I see where this is going. I can't be a party to misrepresentation, false claims and uncorrected error.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 03:42:29 PM
Here is some of the original version I have located. I have stated the principle of operation.  Those who have ears to hear can hear. Those who have eyes to see can see. Those who want to understand can understand. I am not criticising anyone.  Have at it.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: tinman on July 16, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
You can lead a horse to water.....   

And I've said what I'm saying too.  I'm sure Master Ivo and RF can help AKing get his don smith device running.

But will it be OU?  I guess you will just have to ask somebody else, because the only overunity I know about is Joules Out > Joules In. So you'll have to use somebody else's definition if you want OU.

I see where this is going. I can't be a party to misrepresentation, false claims and uncorrected error.

I still think my LED driver circuit deserves more investigation.
What ever happened to the scoposcoppy that was going to happen on it TK ?
I would do it again,but my TBPC got dropped and broke in 3 pieces.


Brad
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: forest on July 16, 2019, 04:21:00 PM
As in RF thread this one seems to be as bad also, without any simple explanation why we should expect OU here.Please tell us : why do you expect OU in Katcher circuit ?

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 04:38:53 PM
As in RF thread this one seems to be as bad also, without any simple explanation why we should expect OU here.Please tell us : why do you expect OU in Katcher circuit ?
I have clearly stated the principle of operation.  It is the introduction of the capacitor which is pulsed over a million times per second to earth ground. The principle is electrostatic induction.  You should go back and re-read my posts carefully.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
Here is a diagram which may help.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 05:30:18 PM
And you will note that my build corresponds exactly to the diagram or can be easily configured for any of the Figs 2-6 in your pdf.

And over a million cycles per second! Wow! That was incredible and amazing in Benitez's time... but today it is child's play and the behaviour of circuits in the single digit MHz range, with operating voltages under 20 kV.... childs play and pretty well understood by everybody going all the way back past Marconi to Tesla himself.
I can't currently find a scope trace from this project but as I recall my unit was operating in the range of 1.1 -1.8 MHz or so. It's on the top of the junkpile and I've just about finished reinstalling the rack&pinion unit in my car, so maybe if you are nice to me I'll fire it up and do some interactive experimentation. Maybe. If you are nice.

Here are a few more pix.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 05:42:39 PM
TK,  as I said in a previous post on another thread, there are enough brains here to sort this stuff out if we co-operate. I for one DO appreciate your building ability and Yes I do think the earth engine is a scam to get investors. But I also think that Rick Friedrich is a huge asset if we can all co-operate and start building.


The Uke device works better in the day than at night as I have proved to myself thereby verifying Don Smith.
ALso there is a way to loop it but it is only the first of 2 stages.  I would really appreciate a phase lock loop Slayer coil schematic. Or even better a crystal controlled Slayer circuit. Slayer because it is the least harmful of the Tesla type coils (unless you know of one with even less emissions.)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 16, 2019, 06:19:01 PM
Racks bite ....
A pain in the pants...
I hope things stay extra nice......
Plenty here would love to see you play that UKE



Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 16, 2019, 06:39:35 PM
The Uke device works better in the day than at night as I have proved to myself thereby verifying Don Smith.
ALso there is a way to loop it but it is only the first of 2 stages.  I would really appreciate a phase lock loop Slayer coil schematic. Or even better a crystal controlled Slayer circuit. Slayer because it is the least harmful of the Tesla type coils (unless you know of one with even less emissions.)

Hi a.king. Any coil-based or other device that produces high voltage spikes or even
clean HV sinewaves typically produces a lot of problematic emissions which can produce major havoc
with digital based equipment, which includes most electronics and equipment these days. :)

That is interesting about you appearing to see a difference in performance between day and night,
but that is not necessarily a verification of Don Smith, but it might relate to something Don Smith has
talked about. From what I recall, the 'Don Smith Effect' document was not a document created by Don Smith, but
by a forum member who said he created that document based on his understanding of some things
Don Smith has said, and I don't recall Don Smith himself ever presenting something exactly like what is depicted in that
Don Smith Effect document, but he may have somewhere that I didn't run across in my investigations of Don Smith's
material and his old forum postings in the past.

I have experimented with that so-called Don Smith Effect a fair bit, and could not replicate such an effect,
and I am not sure how the circuit posted above relates to this claimed effect, but I will take a closer look when I have a chance.
My results with testing the Don Smith Effect as it was depicted and described in the document were
negative so far. That doesn't mean that there isn't some very important detail or details missing there however, as may possibly
be the case with various other Don Smith devices. It is possible, as Don Smith pointed out clearly in one video made of
him, that the exact geographical location is very important if a person wants to have a chance of replicating a Don Smith setup
which relies on an earth ground to produce the COP > 1 effect.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 16, 2019, 07:00:19 PM
What is DSE  not display Screen equipment or perhaps Don Smith Effect?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 16, 2019, 07:07:12 PM
Hi a.king. Any coil-based or other device that produces high voltage spikes or even
clean HV sinewaves typically produces a lot of problematic emissions which can produce major havoc
with digital based equipment, which includes most electronics and equipment these days. :)

That is interesting about you appearing to see a difference in performance between day and night,
but that is not necessarily a verification of Don Smith, but it might relate to something Don Smith has
talked about. From what I recall, the 'Don Smith Effect' document was not a document created by Don Smith, but
by a forum member who said he created that document based on his understanding of some things
Don Smith has said, and I don't recall Don Smith himself ever presenting something exactly like what is depicted in that
Don Smith Effect document, but he may have somewhere that I didn't run across in my investigations of Don Smith's
material and his old forum postings in the past.

I have experimented with that so-called Don Smith Effect a fair bit, and could not replicate such an effect,
and I am not sure how the circuit posted above relates to this claimed effect, but I will take a closer look when I have a chance.
My results with testing the Don Smith Effect as it was depicted and described in the document were
negative so far. That doesn't mean that there isn't some very important detail or details missing there however, as may possibly
be the case with various other Don Smith devices. It is possible, as Don Smith pointed out clearly in one video made of
him, that the exact geographical location is very important if a person wants to have a chance of replicating a Don Smith setup
which relies on an earth ground to produce the COP > 1 effect.
Hi mr Void So what did you use for a SG and generate the ramp timing ??
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 07:13:29 PM
Racks bite ....
A pain in the pants...
I hope things stay extra nice......
Plenty here would love to see you play that UKE
Yep.
But it's all done and dusted now, officially back on the road after two full days of work and no help.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 16, 2019, 07:15:38 PM
TK,  as I said in a previous post on another thread, there are enough brains here to sort this stuff out if we co-operate. I for one DO appreciate your building ability and Yes I do think the earth engine is a scam to get investors. But I also think that Rick Friedrich is a huge asset if we can all co-operate and start building.


The Uke device works better in the day than at night as I have proved to myself thereby verifying Don Smith.
ALso there is a way to loop it but it is only the first of 2 stages.  I would really appreciate a phase lock loop Slayer coil schematic. Or even better a crystal controlled Slayer circuit. Slayer because it is the least harmful of the Tesla type coils (unless you know of one with even less emissions.)
A line output transmuglifier LOPT? ;D
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 07:16:29 PM
Oh, I knew I had a video somewhere. Just took a while to find it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cv4XF4FV6w
Be sure to read the Description.




Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 16, 2019, 07:18:55 PM
Yeash a dreaded job and can be very dangerous to do
especially on flat ground or should I say without a
 Proffessional car lift
Makes it much harder
glad you’re safely through that



Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 07:25:00 PM
There are at least a couple of ways to use a PLL in this application. One would be to emulate crystal frequency lock-in so the device would only operate at that single frequency. I don't know what use that would be, as resonance frequency of a helical resonator depends rather strongly on the environment. So a better use of the PLL would be to keep the system in resonance by changing frequency as required. But the plain old Slayer/Kacher circuit already does this! 

As we have noted though, the base drive of the Slayer circuit is relatively sinusoidal and so does not result in the maximum dv/dt that one might like. I've considered putting in a Schmitt trigger between the Slayer feedback connection and the transistor base. Also a carefully chosen mosfet would probably be good there. So pretty soon we are evolving towards a real SSTC....
But I think a real Tesla disruptive discharge system is probably to be avoided here. Because you will get this kind of stuff happening from all metal in the vicinity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk
Of course Master Ivo's DD system probably won't do that.  ;)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 16, 2019, 10:02:19 PM
There are at least a couple of ways to use a PLL in this application. One would be to emulate crystal frequency lock-in so the device would only operate at that single frequency. I don't know what use that would be, as resonance frequency of a helical resonator depends rather strongly on the environment. So a better use of the PLL would be to keep the system in resonance by changing frequency as required. But the plain old Slayer/Kacher circuit already does this! 

As we have noted though, the base drive of the Slayer circuit is relatively sinusoidal and so does not result in the maximum dv/dt that one might like. I've considered putting in a Schmitt trigger between the Slayer feedback connection and the transistor base. Also a carefully chosen mosfet would probably be good there. So pretty soon we are evolving towards a real SSTC....
But I think a real Tesla disruptive discharge system is probably to be avoided here. Because you will get this kind of stuff happening from all metal in the vicinity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk
Of course Master Ivo's DD system probably won't do that.  ;)
No you mean Nelsons device he shared with Master ivo notice the way the circuit works as well below zero. and the bifilar caduceus /pancake wind of the bemf collect coil.
Back to you Mr Tinsel K
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 16, 2019, 10:20:41 PM
Oh, no, no no,  I wouldn't dream of getting in between you, Rocha and Master Ivo. So y'all just go right on ahead, and when you get OU.... let me know.


Of course I mean this kind of OU : Joules in < Joules out.  Your mileage may vary.    8)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 16, 2019, 11:07:20 PM
There are at least a couple of ways to use a PLL in this application. One would be to emulate crystal frequency lock-in so the device would only operate at that single frequency. I don't know what use that would be, as resonance frequency of a helical resonator depends rather strongly on the environment. So a better use of the PLL would be to keep the system in resonance by changing frequency as required. But the plain old Slayer/Kacher circuit already does this! 

As we have noted though, the base drive of the Slayer circuit is relatively sinusoidal and so does not result in the maximum dv/dt that one might like. I've considered putting in a Schmitt trigger between the Slayer feedback connection and the transistor base. Also a carefully chosen mosfet would probably be good there. So pretty soon we are evolving towards a real SSTC....
But I think a real Tesla disruptive discharge system is probably to be avoided here. Because you will get this kind of stuff happening from all metal in the vicinity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZClhoU2Xk)
Of course Master Ivo's DD system probably won't do that.  ;)
My beef with the Slayer is that you get too much parasitic capacitance. I suppose the way to use it is to keep a distance from it or maybe isolate it in a faraday cage. That is why I thought that maybe pll ing it or getting a crystal circuit may be a reasonable compromise, (unless you are transmitting and receiving).
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 01:14:00 AM
Well that's what you get with the E-field emitters. High frequency (in the Benitez-Tesla sense, single digit MHz ranges) + high voltage = capacitive coupling like crazy.
So my solution has been to go to lower frequency mostly EM coupling. Or, dare I mention it, hybrid devices with optimized geometry of transmitter-receiver pairs.

Here's me with a EM receiver antenna wrapped around my head, with an incandescent bulb powered wirelessly. 

Try that with a Slayer, or even RF's gatedriver coil setup. Or maybe you shouldn't, after all.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 17, 2019, 01:31:39 AM
Oh, no, no no,  I wouldn't dream of getting in between you, Rocha and Master Ivo. So y'all just go right on ahead, and when you get OU.... let me know.


Of course I mean this kind of OU : Joules in < Joules out.  Your mileage may vary.    8)
Ha, Ha, I don't think I would do it like that, any way it's more about resonance and the affect I would have thought it must happen in the katcher coil circuit than from mega volts being sprayed all over the work place and working devices don't show any radiation like that, so with my experience folk will wait a long long time for a high voltage katcher from me  ;D ;D
And have you seen that stupid over voltage neon regulator Smith uses in his demo's that would never work too much resistance.

PS why would any one use a Slayer device in a resonant circuit ? and if you used a PLL to drive it, it it would no longer be a slayer circuit, and any way the L2 coil needs to go to earth not to the driver devices base! Where do you put the earth wire  in that circuit?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 17, 2019, 02:53:13 AM
Well TK all I can say is thank you
 I will be giggling about that one for quite some time


Pushing the wireless transmission envelope with the incandescent bulb on the cranium.



Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 17, 2019, 02:55:34 AM
   Well A: That would be easy enough to test that circuit, with my current simple Kacher circuit, with the secondary connected to a bulb, capacitor, and the to the earth ground line. It that it?  So, this will obtain what results, other than lighting the bulb? I am trying to be serious, well, almost. Hard to do at times...   
   TK: I've also seen what happens to the neons that are placed on HV high frequency circuits, and left there to fry, and get all black. I commented that to Hoppy one day, he wanted to see the "proof", so I did show a similar chard neon bulb. CFl's and florescent bulbs will also get black spots on them, for the same reason. So, which bulb should I fry, next?
 Just kidding. 

   Here is my Stiffler type of replication, lighting a neon bulb with a simple crystal oscillator. Didn't blow up anything, as yet. But, this oscillator will light a couple 8 watt AC led bulbs, to nearly full brightness, on flea farts. When the the fleas are well fed, that is.
   The second image is of a gutted led filament bulb, which also work very well with HV, and are also very efficient when used with Telsa/Kacher circuits. Providing more light than any other led bulbs that I've tried, and they are very cheap to buy, as well. While providing a great light output, very pleasing to the eyes. Unlike some of the other white led lights such as the ones used are used on car headlights. Which are blinding and should not be permitted.   Anyway, it's happy hour,  I got to go...
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Hoppy on July 17, 2019, 08:51:47 AM
Well TK all I can say is thank you
 I will be giggling about that one for quite some time


Pushing the wireless transmission envelope with the incandescent bulb on the cranium.
Wow! that's an awesome looking bench.  ;D
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 17, 2019, 01:02:07 PM
Well fancy that energy from nats widdle or was it droppings  you must show me how to do that one.
listen we need to get some brain thought pickings from Tinsel K  ;D
what is going round the internet now (youtube and on here some) is about negative energy (master ivo and JBidini info)
what is it and what's missing from it compaired to ordinary energy, holes where the free radical 'flies' 8) ::) :o :o have been
who knows ?

AG
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 17, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
You seem to be missing the point here.  The Ukrainian experiment proved that the insertion of the capacitor increased the output.  It is not about blowing the bulbs. It is about using the extra energy to produce a real gain and loop back into the circuit.
The increased output comes from electrostatic inductance (best from an earth ground). So you buy one  - you get one free - minus system losses. So how to convert the extra unit to you buy one which now becomes 2 and now you get two more free minus system losses.


Or lets put it into joules.
Start 1 joule in  get one joule free.
So loop it and we get 1 joule in plus 1 joule in free - now we get 2 joules more free - minus system losses. and so on ......
So how did Benitez do it?  Take a look guys. Use your brains guys.
We can surely do it better with today's tech.  Can't we???
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 09:58:19 PM
(snip)
   TK: I've also seen what happens to the neons that are placed on HV high frequency circuits, and left there to fry, and get all black. I commented that to Hoppy one day, he wanted to see the "proof", so I did show a similar chard neon bulb. CFl's and florescent bulbs will also get black spots on them, for the same reason. So, which bulb should I fry, next?
(snip)
The usual explanation is that the glass becomes sputter-coated with the electrode material that is boiling off the electrodes or simple filaments and being deposited as a thin film on the glass. But there are some intriguing hypotheses concerning possible elemental transformations or transmutations going on and that the black material may not in fact be the same composition as the electrode material itself. One of these days I'm going to ask my friend with the xray fluorescence (XRF) apparatus to take a look at some of the blackened glass envelope material. Or maybe Wesley would like to do it, I'll bet he has an XRF machine in that pile of lab equipment. If he doesn't he should.
At any rate we know we can generate the black bulbs at will, using several different techniques!
 8)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 10:00:17 PM
You seem to be missing the point here.  The Ukrainian experiment proved that the insertion of the capacitor increased the output.  It is not about blowing the bulbs. It is about using the extra energy to produce a real gain and loop back into the circuit.
The increased output comes from electrostatic inductance (best from an earth ground). So you buy one  - you get one free - minus system losses. So how to convert the extra unit to you buy one which now becomes 2 and now you get two more free minus system losses.


Or lets put it into joules.
Start 1 joule in  get one joule free.
So loop it and we get 1 joule in plus 1 joule in free - now we get 2 joules more free - minus system losses. and so on ......
So how did Benitez do it?  Take a look guys. Use your brains guys.
We can surely do it better with today's tech.  Can't we???
]
Sure. Now all we need to do is to agree on just how to measure those free Joules. Most of the time we can agree (not always!) on how to measure that one input joule, and we can usually measure that one output Joule too. It's that free Joule that is shy and doesn't want to show up on monitoring equipment or by powering other loads.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 10:03:47 PM
Wow! that's an awesome looking bench.  ;D
You should see it now. It has acquired several more layers since I was doing that old work. I can still run EM wireless but I don't dare run E-field wireless at any substantial power because ... well, just because. Have to go outside for that stuff and it's too darn hot.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 17, 2019, 10:41:36 PM
]
Sure. Now all we need to do is to agree on just how to measure those free Joules. Most of the time we can agree (not always!) on how to measure that one input joule, and we can usually measure that one output Joule too. It's that free Joule that is shy and doesn't want to show up on monitoring equipment or by powering other loads.
Well it didn't do a bad job blowing those bulbs - so that's a good starting point...
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 17, 2019, 10:43:10 PM

Or lets put it into joules.
Start 1 joule in  get one joule free.
So loop it and we get 1 joule in plus 1 joule in free - now we get 2 joules more free - minus system losses. and so on ......
So how did Benitez do it?  Take a look guys. Use your brains guys.
We can surely do it better with today's tech.  Can't we???

Let's see- I use 1 joule from my input to create .95 joule on the output (95% efficiency) and this is reasonable enough to complete the first cycle.  So next, I take the accumulated .95 joule and add it to the next 1 joule taken from the input for a total input of 1.95 joule which will then create a 1.85 joule output (again 95% efficiency).  And then I..... wait a minute!  I've used 2 joules to create 1.85 joules output in just two cycles so I'm in the hole already so no need to continue!  I must be doing something wrong.  Could you please explain my problem and why I don't see a gain?

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 17, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
I think you can blow an incandescent bulb due to internal arcing in the bulb caused by the high voltage destroying the filament,
but does that tell you anything meaningful about output power? I am inclined to think it doesn't.

They stated that "Ammeter shows current consumption as net 1.2A", and for the second bulb,
"The current in this lamp in this configuration was 1.8 - 2.3A", but the operating frequency was
around 1 MHz. You need a special RF ammeter or RF current probe of some sort to measure currents at
such a high frequency, but they made no mention of the exact measuring equipment they used in that document
that I saw. This was apparently done by a doctoral candidate. Who writes an engineering paper and doesn't list the exact
measurement equipment used? That seems kind of sketchy.


Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: forest on July 17, 2019, 10:54:36 PM
Use 1 joule to create .95 joule and recover 0.95 from original joule
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 11:12:02 PM
Well it didn't do a bad job blowing those bulbs - so that's a good starting point...
Sure, blowing bulbs is fun.   ;D
But is it OU?    :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aKuwNTiO7I
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 11:20:01 PM
I think you can blow an incandescent bulb due to internal arcing in the bulb caused by the high voltage destroying the filament,
but does that tell you anything meaningful about output power? I am inclined to think it doesn't.

They stated that "Ammeter shows current consumption as net 1.2A", and for the second bulb,
"The current in this lamp in this configuration was 1.8 - 2.3A", but the operating frequency was
around 1 MHz. You need a special RF ammeter or RF current probe of some sort to measure currents at
such a high frequency, but they made no mention of the exact measuring equipment they used in that document
that I saw. This was apparently done by a doctoral candidate. Who writes an engineering paper and doesn't list the exact
measurement equipment used? That seems kind of sketchy.
Which echoes my opinion from when I first worked on this. The paper is incomplete in its description of the data and how it was collected. It might pass for a 10th grade science fair project in the USA (and many things like it probably have, already). A graduate EE thesis.... well, it leaves one wanting. If we can't reproduce overunity measurements, and we don't know how the authors made their OU measurements, but we are familiar with artefacts in HVRF  measurement that they may not be... what are we to conclude?

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 17, 2019, 11:20:59 PM
Use 1 joule to create .95 joule and recover 0.95 from original joule
Eat your cake and have it, too?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 17, 2019, 11:31:50 PM
Which echoes my opinion from when I first worked on this. The paper is incomplete in its description of the data and how it was collected. It might pass for a 10th grade science fair project in the USA (and many things like it probably have, already). A graduate EE thesis.... well, it leaves one wanting. If we can't reproduce overunity measurements, and we don't know how the authors made their OU measurements, but we are familiar with artefacts in HVRF  measurement that they may not be... what are we to conclude?

We can only conclude that the results are questionable with the information we have
in that document. For all we know based on that document, they could have placed a potato
in series with the bulb across the output and estimated the bulb current based on the amount of steam
coming off the potato. :) The results are interesting if the stated measured bulb current was measured accurately though,
and if the average input power really did remain at around 4.2W while the bulbs were lighting.
There is no way to know if this might really be the case with the information provided however.
You just have to take their word for it. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 17, 2019, 11:38:05 PM
Use 1 joule to create .95 joule and recover 0.95 from original joule

I don't understand.  Could you be more specific as to how I recover .95 joule from the original joule?

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 17, 2019, 11:56:11 PM
I don't understand.  Could you be more specific as to how I recover .95 joule from the original joule?

Regards,
Pm
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 12:56:39 AM
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.

I have experimented with the general approach. The problem I have found is it all starts
to fall apart when you try to power a real load. The supply battery runs down just as it would
if you were powering the load directly with no attempt to feed back. Power consumption is power
consumption after all. That energy has to come from somewhere. If the energy is coming from the battery,
then the battery  will run down. If someone can demonstrate a way to pull in extra energy externally from
the environment or wherever else and use that to power a real load, so the supply battery doesn't run down,
then I would be happy to see that demonstration. It might all sound good in theory, but unless you can
pull in extra energy somehow from external to your setup, your source battery is going to run down. I hope we can
all at least agree on that. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 01:05:14 AM
Oh, I think I get it now. The system takes one Joule to run but produces 2 Joules. Therefore overunity. But you need to feed one of those back from the output to make the OU and only actually _use_ the leftover one Joule of free energy.    8)











You still have to supply the input, though, from somewhere else.   :'( Otherwise you violate the First Law of Overunity, which says that no OU device can be made to run solely on its own output, or the MiBs will come and get you. 
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 18, 2019, 01:11:08 AM
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.

That is what I did in my original example.  I took the output and added it back to the input.  I then took that sum and created a new output, etc.  Due to losses it all comes up short of COP>1.

But let's say I do as you say and accumulate the output in some storage device like a capacitor.  After x number of cycles, we will still be less than the input expended due to losses.  So, where is the gain mechanism?

BTW, I've read the Benitez patents.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 02:41:55 AM
Oh, I think I get it now. The system takes one Joule to run but produces 2 Joules. Therefore overunity. But you need to feed one of those back from the output to make the OU and only actually _use_ the leftover one Joule of free energy.    8)











You still have to supply the input, though, from somewhere else.   :'( Otherwise you violate the First Law of Overunity, which says that no OU device can be made to run solely on its own output, or the MiBs will come and get you.
It's not running on it's own output anymore than a solar panel is ou.  In the case of a solar panel, the input is from the sun directly.  In the case of te DSE the input is from the electrons in the ambient background which are energised by solar and cosmic action.  The DSE works better during the day than at night and better on high ground than low ground.  This is due to the electrical activity at these times and altitudes. Additionally if you look at electrostatic induction once you potentialize the inside of the capacitor  it can be used to potentialize many cycles of the outside plate of the cap. Hope that makes it clearer.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 02:49:04 AM
Partzman: Then I take it you disagree with Benitez. Especially his first patent.  May I ask where you see the flaw in his reasoning?
My one concern with Benitez is that in the loop back trafo that it is actually an induction coil  and not a trafo which would have an additional gain input into the system.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 02:53:39 AM
It's not running on it's own output anymore than a solar panel is ou.  In the case of a solar panel, the input is from the sun directly.  In the case of te DSE the input is from the electrons in the ambient background which are energised by solar and cosmic action.  The DSE works better during the day than at night and better on high ground than low ground.  This is due to the electrical activity at these times and altitudes.

Hi a.king21. Unfortunately it's all just words unless someone can actually demonstrate it
in a reasonable way. :) At any rate what you said there is not what Don Smith talked about
that I have seen. From what I recall, Don Smith talked about 'disturbing the ambient' which supposedly causes
'separation of electron pairs' or something along that line which 'releases energy' and this energy is
somehow collected by the circuitry. I have already pointed out in the other thread that
Don Smith apparently did not create that 'Don Smith Effect' document, again from what I recall, so
there is no guarantee that DSE stuff really has anything much to do with things Don Smith actually said.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 03:12:02 AM
Hi a.king21. Unfortunately it's all just words unless someone can actually demonstrate it
in a reasonable way. :) At any rate what you said there is not what Don Smith talked about
that I have seen. From what I recall, Don Smith talked about 'disturbing the ambient' which supposedly causes
'separation of electron pairs' or something along that line which 'releases energy' and this energy is
somehow collected by the circuitry. I have already pointed out in the other thread that
Don Smith apparently did not create that 'Don Smith Effect' document, again from what I recall, so
there is no guarantee that DSE stuff really has anything much to do with things Don Smith actually said.
It has already been done a hundred years ago by Benitez.  i am suggesting some ways in which his device can be modernised.  As an example Edwin Gray modernised the Benitez battery idea and his splitting of the positive is exactly the situation where you have 2 batteries in series and charge 2 batteries in parallel whilst  powering a load between + 24 and +12 .  ie splitting the positive as he calls it.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 03:36:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkAMNFKjds4&feature=youtu.be
7 minutes in.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 03:44:30 AM
The vid and Benitez and the Ukrainian replication is basically this aspect of the Don Smith system: Don had several strokes by this time so some of his grammar was off. It was his parting gift to us before he died so I suggest we analyse it carefully. I jokingly call it the Moron level of comprehension, because those are  the words Don used.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 18, 2019, 04:11:47 AM
Partzman: Then I take it you disagree with Benitez. Especially his first patent.  May I ask where you see the flaw in his reasoning?
My one concern with Benitez is that in the loop back trafo that it is actually an induction coil  and not a trafo which would have an additional gain input into the system.

Again I ask specifically, what is the gain mechanism?  I don't see it in the Benitez patent.  Please explain in simple terms so I and others here can understand this phenomenon.  I'm not trying to be difficult but rather wish to understand but honestly, I just don't get it!

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 04:35:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkAMNFKjds4&feature=youtu.be
7 minutes in.

Hi a.king. I understand the concept of electrostatic induction, and I have experimented with it
using an earth ground to one capacitor plate, and only could ever get flea power out of such an arrangement
even when charging the other capacitor plate to at least 8 kV on a 0.1 uF HV cap at around 20 kHz. If there is a
way to make that work with reasonably high output power, I couldn't find it anyway. Maybe I am not quite enough
of a moron to get it. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:33:38 AM
Charging by electrostatic induction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEpSX2Hd54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEpSX2Hd54)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fWasxYQZZw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fWasxYQZZw)
But is it OU?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: forest on July 18, 2019, 10:14:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkAMNFKjds4&t=438s
but it's not an only way imho. The EM field is the REAL source of energy conservative ; the stream of energy go out from somewhere (ether or pure vacuum or whatever) and goes back and can DO work on electrons, but this work is free energy only in special cases - when the flow is steady, free and undisturbed.
If you create or must recreate this flow (at any rate) you must do work and spend energy, the same if you disturb it or have to recreate the dipole. Don't kill the dipole and the nature is providing the mirror energy.In case of the video above , once you do it electronically you will end up with capacitor charged at fast rate with very small energy expended to do it and can discharge it at slow rate. The only problem is in elements : it won't work with the simple electronic parts  . For example common capacitor does not have 3 terminals : the additional used for electrostatic induction effect. There is no simple spark gap controlled by gate working in open circuit though maybe mosfet could be used
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 12:23:49 PM
"How do you measure power?"
" The usual ways. But..." (insert paragraphs of autogenerated irrelevant text here) "and if your meters don't show OU you are not using them right."
"OK... but how do _you_ measure power?
" I already told you!" (insert more paragraphs of text)

This kind of "answer" is somehow unsatisfactory, although as a general obfuscatory strategy it is quite effective.


So let's be more specific. A fan blade is turned and moves air. How is the power dissipation of that fan blade measured? That is, just exactly how much power does it take to turn that blade at a specific RPM, how much air (in Cubic Feet per Minute, CFM) does it move, what's the pressure differential across the fan,  can one draw a graph of power dissipated versus CFM at various RPM, etc? In other words, is the fan blade calibrated?
 
I'm not talking about electrical power input to some motor that is turning the fan blade, although that is important, because the fan isn't 100 percent efficient, is it? Or is it? How can we even know the fan's overall efficiency at all if we do not actually know the _mechanical_ efficiency of the fan blade itself?


What is its power curve? For example a plot of Mechanical power at the blade shaft versus CFM at various RPM.  How is this measured? Can we see a raw power plot for a particular fan that might be used in, say, a demonstration of OU?  Is this data and information even known or considered by the demonstrator?


https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/docs/documents/197/VentilationFanPowerConsumption.gif (https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/docs/documents/197/VentilationFanPowerConsumption.gif)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Benitez:  I'll try explain it this way. You give one pulse of one joule  to a capacitor plate A, The other plate  B charges up from the environment.
Before the second pulse you route the second plate B  via a series of diodes and coils back onto the first plate A.
The first plate now has one joule on it.
You pulse plate A again from your device and now Plate A has 2 joules on it and Plate B receives 2 joules from the environment.  Before you know it you have 1000 joules on plate A and plate B receives 1000 joues from the environment.  All minus system losses of course, and the energy is limited t0 the size of the capacitor.
This is the simple way to explain the concept. You don't need meters on this because the gain is self evident.
Now the way Benitez does it is he intercepts the inrush of charge to plate B with a system of coils and possibly interrupters and diodes. He fires the energy into the source to increase the source output.  Hope this makes sense. I have replicated the effect and had the Slayer self powered until night time. Let's have some help here guys. And try it and post your results.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 04:51:27 PM
Benitez:  I'll try explain it this way. You give one pulse of one joule  to a capacitor plate A, The other plate  B charges up from the environment.
Before the second pulse you route the second plate B  via a series of diodes and coils back onto the first plate A.
The first plate now has one joule on it.
You pulse plate A again from your device and now Plate A has 2 joules on it and Plate B receives 2 joules from the environment.  Before you know it you have 1000 joules on plate A and plate B receives 1000 joues from the environment.  All minus system losses of course, and the energy is limited t0 the size of the capacitor.
This is the simple way to explain the concept. You don't need meters on this because the gain is self evident.
Now the way Benitez does it is he intercepts the inrush of charge to plate B with a system of coils and possibly interrupters and diodes. He fires the energy into the source to increase the source output.  Hope this makes sense. I have replicated the effect and had the Slayer self powered until night time. Let's have some help here guys. And try it and post your results.
yes that was in book 5 final secrets Tom Bearden  complete with a circuit.  http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%20of%2015%20Feb%201994/index.html
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
   Well A, that sound interesting. Can you at least post a picture? I'm sure that you must have a cell phone.
   So, it ran by itself? With no additional external input? And no load, how can you tell that it's running?What value capacitor are you using. Is there a recommended type of capacitor?
   Sorry for all the questions.   NickZ
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 18, 2019, 04:52:27 PM
Benitez:  I'll try explain it this way. You give one pulse of one joule  to a capacitor plate A, The other plate  B charges up from the environment.
Before the second pulse you route the second plate B  via a series of diodes and coils back onto the first plate A.
The first plate now has one joule on it.
You pulse plate A again from your device and now Plate A has 2 joules on it and Plate B receives 2 joules from the environment.  Before you know it you have 1000 joules on plate A and plate B receives 1000 joues from the environment.  All minus system losses of course, and the energy is limited t0 the size of the capacitor.
This is the simple way to explain the concept. You don't need meters on this because the gain is self evident.
Now the way Benitez does it is he intercepts the inrush of charge to plate B with a system of coils and possibly interrupters and diodes. He fires the energy into the source to increase the source output.  Hope this makes sense. I have replicated the effect and had the Slayer self powered until night time. Let's have some help here guys. And try it and post your results.

Aking,

Thank you for your explanation above.  I have performed many experiments in the past involving electrostatic induction through various dielectrics and never "saw" what you apparently have seen.  I will run some bench tests of what you describe and will return.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 04:58:06 PM
Benitez:  I'll try explain it this way. You give one pulse of one joule  to a capacitor plate A, The other plate  B charges up from the environment.
Before the second pulse you route the second plate B  via a series of diodes and coils back onto the first plate A.
The first plate now has one joule on it.
You pulse plate A again from your device and now Plate A has 2 joules on it and Plate B receives 2 joules from the environment.  Before you know it you have 1000 joules on plate A and plate B receives 1000 joues from the environment.  All minus system losses of course, and the energy is limited t0 the size of the capacitor.
This is the simple way to explain the concept. You don't need meters on this because the gain is self evident.
Now the way Benitez does it is he intercepts the inrush of charge to plate B with a system of coils and possibly interrupters and diodes. He fires the energy into the source to increase the source output.  Hope this makes sense. I have replicated the effect and had the Slayer self powered until night time. Let's have some help here guys. And try it and post your results.

Hi a.king. Well, a couple of us have mentioned that we have tried such arrangements and didn't get any unusual results.
A circuit diagram of your exact circuit setup would be nice if you want other people to consider trying to replicate.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:15:29 PM
Benitez:  I'll try explain it this way. You give one pulse of one joule  to a capacitor plate A, The other plate  B charges up from the environment.
Before the second pulse you route the second plate B  via a series of diodes and coils back onto the first plate A.
The first plate now has one joule on it.
You pulse plate A again from your device and now Plate A has 2 joules on it and Plate B receives 2 joules from the environment.  Before you know it you have 1000 joules on plate A and plate B receives 1000 joues from the environment.  All minus system losses of course, and the energy is limited t0 the size of the capacitor.
This is the simple way to explain the concept. You don't need meters on this because the gain is self evident.
Now the way Benitez does it is he intercepts the inrush of charge to plate B with a system of coils and possibly interrupters and diodes. He fires the energy into the source to increase the source output.  Hope this makes sense. I have replicated the effect and had the Slayer self powered until night time. Let's have some help here guys. And try it and post your results.
Uh oh. That is an unambiguous statement of a Self Powered Slayer.  I don't think anything more is going to happen until this claim is supported with a lot more detail and ... dare we say it.... evidence.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:18:32 PM
   Well A, that sound interesting. Can you at least post a picture? I'm sure that you must have a cell phone.
   So, it ran by itself? With no additional external input? And no load, how can you tell that it's running?What value capacitor are you using. Is there a recommended type of capacitor?
   Sorry for all the questions.   NickZ
Bingo! Nick you are on the ball. How can you tell it's running if there is truly no load? Thank you for that, no kidding, you have made my day.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
yes that was in book 5 final secrets Tom Bearden  complete with a circuit.  http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%20of%2015%20Feb%201994/index.html (http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%20of%2015%20Feb%201994/index.html)
Do you mean these circuits? They don't exactly correspond to the description above (no coils, no diodes, etc.), but they are simple enough and the claim is robust enough (no depletion of the source while the "collector" charges up and discharges into the load) that it should be relatively easy to check out.

However I  know people who have experimented with these circuits in the past, and they found, unfortunately, that the source does in fact provide all the energy that eventually reaches the load.

But don't let that stop anyone from building and testing. Just please report _all_ your results, including the nulls.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
Bingo! Nick you are on the ball. How can you tell it's running if there is truly no load? Thank you for that, no kidding, you have made my day.
Hold on a moment in the TB video he says you need something like 2 or 3 KV but I tried it at a much lower voltage and it didn't work GeoFusion used a spark gap and made a video it's on his web site.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:42:34 PM
By a curious coincidence I just happen to have a little oneshot multivibrator demonstration set up on a breadboard, using half of a 4013.
It has LED output and pushbutton clocking and at the moment is powered by an aerogel supercap stack.

Simple to connect it to a dedicated square wave oscillator (what frequency?) and the mosfet gate drivers/op amps/mosfets, whatever, on the output side instead of or in addition to the LEDs. And there is another whole flipflop in that chip that isn't being used.


But seriously... a multivib for that application? Better to use a modern half or full Hbridge driver, no? You have more control over dead time, shootthru, protection for the mosfets, etc,
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 05:50:59 PM
Also I just have to point out that a single pulse charge with "no appreciable work" is not the same as with "no work" and all those little "not appreciable" steps of pulse charging to wind up with a _full_ charge do finally add up to appreciable work. Col. Bearden, nor any of his followers, have yet to eat that free lunch cake.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 06:02:02 PM
It would be nice if even just one person out there who says they have encountered unusual
results would demonstrate it in a reasonable way. :)

P.S. Itsu. Please stick around. Your efforts are always appreciated here. :)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 18, 2019, 06:14:57 PM
VOID quote It would be nice if even just one person out there who says they have encountered unusual
results would demonstrate it in a reasonable way.


P.S. Itsu. Please stick around. Your efforts are always appreciated here end quote

Yes it would change everything here and everywhere.

 RE itsu I don't believe our host realizes just how privileged he is to have persons like itsu   here[who hopefully is stuck here for now....hint from the street ??
and likewise .... IMO a Privilege on steroids ...the TK lab who's build is discussed here.

sorry for the interruption... 
  EDIT to Nick below you perhaps missed the word on the street hint...IMO it is horrible what happened here to itsu ....working the hardest of all and getting completely blind sided ...unjustly !! If it is true that RF holds the beliefs he professes ,it is one of the oddest paths I could ever imagine towards upholding those standards !putting a revenue stream in front of helping the world ...and watching a man sincerely struggle [itsu] ...and by struggle I mean the language / reading barrier too.and just highlight his handicap [itsu can't "follow" the videos ]
and not show him his errors ...very frustrating and not really behavior I would associate with Ricks Divine mentor
IMO a very offputting reflection on That mentor and what he taughtabout how we should treat others.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 06:23:05 PM
   Yes, but itsu has checked out of OU.com, and will not be posting here any more.
   Thanks to you know who.   
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 06:24:25 PM
Hold on a moment in the TB video he says you need something like 2 or 3 KV but I tried it at a much lower voltage and it didn't work GeoFusion used a spark gap and made a video it's on his web site.
No spark gaps in the Bearden schematics.
Please somebody give an accurate and complete schematic along with some description of how it is supposed to behave. And just how the OU manifests.

A Slayer that runs itself until dark. Precise schematic please.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 06:26:57 PM
Oh wait... do you mean a Slayer that runs itself until _it_ goes dark?    :-\
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 06:27:46 PM
VOID quote It would be nice if even just one person out there who says they have encountered unusual
results would demonstrate it in a reasonable way.


P.S. Itsu. Please stick around. Your efforts are always appreciated here end quote

Yes it would change everything here and everywhere.

 RE itsu I don't believe our host realizes just how privileged he is to have persons like itsu   here[who hopefully is stuck here for now....hint from the street ??
and likewise .... IMO a Privilege on steroids ...the TK lab who's build is discussed here.

sorry for the interruption...
You can check out --- but you can never leave.
Don't you wish MarkE was still around? I sure do.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 18, 2019, 06:30:54 PM
Scopeshot of the little multivibrator with some manual button presses:

(LED On when signal is LOW)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 06:33:16 PM
   Geofusion has not shown OU nor could obtain self running any device. Nor has made any claims about that either.   itsu has checked out. But the door is always open, at the Asylum. Where friends will always be friends...
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 06:37:09 PM
Ok Let me explain cos I am going to get some heat here.


I powered the slayer from batteries and looped.  So you are going to say batteries again.  well it was a first experiment so hang on and I'll do a schematic.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 06:39:14 PM
No spark gaps in the Bearden schematics.
Please somebody give an accurate and complete schematic along with some description of how it is supposed to behave. And just how the OU manifests.

A Slayer that runs itself until dark. Precise schematic please.
I'm not sure on this one but I think from what i've been told its about halting any power fluctuations as it causes a magnetic flux and then dumping all stored capacitance dielectric energy into a pulse of energy usually a high voltage in the first stage if the protocol is not adhered to you get nothing it's about beating the rise time of the electron rumour has it
that's about 5 nano seconds 200 mhz but A.King says there is another way. the spark gap has to be low resistance .005 ohms, you would need at least 10 irf460 fets in parallel and then there is the fly back voltage to contend with but they can be cascaded.
And then there is this apparently he says it works. No he shows it working.
notice during the impulse all current must be activity halted.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 06:53:16 PM
You can check out --- but you can never leave.
Don't you wish MarkE was still around? I sure do.
who is he ?  (you can't destroy energy (everything is energy EVERYTHING)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 07:01:52 PM
Ok Let me explain cos I am going to get some heat here.
I powered the slayer from batteries and looped.  So you are going to say batteries again.  well it was a first experiment so hang on and I'll do a schematic.

Hi a.king. Yes, there is certainly potential there for misinterpretation.
Various battery types have a flat area in their discharge curves where the battery
terminal voltage will remain pretty constant for a period of time during discharge. The exact length
of time the battery will stay in the flat discharge area of its discharge curve depends on the battery type,
the battery Amp-hour rating, and the current draw from the battery.

Another factor which can potentially be misleading is if you are pulsing a battery
using feedback to charge the battery at a high frequency of several kHz or higher, this can throw off
the voltage reading of digital multimeters and cause them to read a fair bit higher than the
actual battery terminal voltage. When you shut off the pulsing circuit, you see that the battery
voltage is actually lower than the digital multimeter was displaying when the pulsing circuit
was pulsing the battery. I have seen this on numerous occasions.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 07:12:30 PM
Whenever I have tried the loop with the slayer in the past it never works because the circuit has hi frequency running through it.  The actual circuit was more complicated than this but here is the basics to work on.  The cap I used was a 450 volt motor run cap and the voltage are potentially LETHAL.  Do not do it unless you are qualified.  It can KILL you.  I bear no responsibility.  This is for educational and discussion purposes only.
There are variations you can do on the earth side.  Remember that a  cap is a blocking device so you are picking up electrons from the earth ground and creating a funnelling effect.  Damp humid conditions will hinder the process as will sea level or below sea level because electron activity is low..


This will blow your transistors if not secure.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 07:20:51 PM
Thanks a.king. That should be an easy enough circuit for people to try to replicate.
Yes, if you use a large value for the capacitor C2, it could potentially give a big shock if
someone touches its terminals after switching off the circuit. .  :o ;D
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 07:22:30 PM
You can regulate the voltage going back into the battery by placing a neon or ne2 across the earthing capacitor. 2 in series will double the voltage into the battery and so on,
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 07:29:25 PM
Have a look at the DOn SMith Moron level (lol)  and see the way he organises things on the "other side" where there should technically be no power. BUT THERE IS and masses of it.  He uses a SHOE BOX SIZE cap.  Think about that.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 07:57:24 PM
   a.king:   Just how would you determine if there is any additional power coming from the ground? Instead of going to the ground, like is normally seen?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 08:19:10 PM
   a.king:   Just how would you determine if there is any additional power coming from the ground? Instead of going to the ground, like is normally seen?
Yes And wouldn't any gain be lost as it's pushing then pulling and then a circuit like that is hard to get going, have you ever tried it at high frequency as the big tesla coil becomes shorter
and then it has 3uf top load and no start up facility or recovery time or dump facility or time period have you a video showing it running would be nice to see.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 08:20:29 PM
   a.king:   Just how would you determine if there is any additional power coming from the ground? Instead of going to the ground, like is normally seen?

Hi Nick. If the supply battery is truly staying charged.  Determining how long to
run the test for depends on the Amp-hour rating of the supply battery and the current draw
of the circuit on the supply battery. The longer you leave the test running the better. There are
major variables in that circuit such as what values to use for L1, L2, L3 and C2.
Due to that, at this point, I wouldn't call this a replication. Just experimenting with a
general circuit arrangement approach. Still it is a relatively simple circuit setup (a kacher circuit),
so should be pretty easy for anyone who wants to experiment with it. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 08:27:06 PM
Hi Nick. If the supply battery is truly staying charged.  Determining how long to
run the test for depends on the Amp-hour rating of the supply battery and the current draw
of the circuit on the supply battery. The longer you leave the test running the better. There are
major variables in that circuit such as what values to use for L1, L2, L3 and C2.
Due to that, at this point, I wouldn't call this a replication. Just experimenting with a
general circuit arrangement approach. Still it is a relatively simple circuit setup (a kacher circuit),
so should be pretty easy for anyone who wants to experiment with it. :)
Yes rather you than me, how does it capture and store the energy with out any control?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 08:33:36 PM
Yes rather you than me, how does it capture and store the energy ?

Hi AG. I make no claims about OU there. I have experimented with this sort of thing
in the past. No luck on my part so far. It is not so different in general than one of Nelson's previous arrangements, I think. 
Looking at the circuit, charge is (hopefully) 'pumped' from the earth and accelerated through the windings of the output
transformer primary winding. The secondary of the output transformer connects back to the supply battery
via the FWBR.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 08:40:10 PM
   a.king:   Just how would you determine if there is any additional power coming from the ground? Instead of going to the ground, like is normally seen?
Well this is the whole point of the circuit. Try it and see.  You can also potentialize more caps using one wire and an Avramenko thus lessening the draw on the circuit. And yes, running it for quite a while is the key. Also during the day is better and on high ground.
I got my first mains shock in many years using the benign RICK and this circuit addition. And it shocked me both physically and mentally.  Just was not expecting it from the device driven by the gate driver. My Slayer is only powered by 5 volt nimhs.
As you say, conventional wisdom says it should go to earth ground - not the other way. That is the whole point of the experiment and there are many variations.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 08:44:18 PM
   Void:   So other than battery run times, there is no way to know and measure if there is current coming from the ground, or even how much "gain" comes from the earth ground line. As there are no batteries that don't drain after a while. Nor will that drain time be an accurate reading of actual charges coming from the ground.Only Rick's battery does not drain. But, it does drain, and needs rotation untii both batteries are dead.
And will need his special and probably expensive charger to bring those two dead batteries back to life again.So there you have it, in a nutshell.   Resonance can improve efficiency, but by itself has not been shown to self run any device,  that can replicated, and verified, as yet.
..
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 08:44:37 PM
Hi AG. I make no claims about OU there. I have experimented with this sort of thing
in the past. No luck on my part so far. It is not so different in general than one of Nelson's previous arrangements, I think. 
As claimed, charge is 'pumped' from the earth and accelerated through the windings of the output
transformer primary winding. The secondary of the output transformer connects back to the supply battery
via the FWBR.
I have played with a circuit like Nelsons it's the pancake coil that does some thing special if you feed it with a 50/50 square wave it excelorates a high voltage like no other circuit I have ever seen over 600 volts is easy to rase so quickly it would instantaneously charge more or less charge that 3uf in no time at all.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 08:45:46 PM
My Slayer is only powered by 5 volt nimhs.

Hi a.king. So you have a circuit setup which is different in some ways than the schematic you posted,
but you want people to spend time testing and sharing their circuit setup details and results with you?
That doesn't seem right. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 08:49:29 PM
   Void:   So other than battery run times, there is no way to know and measure if there is current coming from the ground, or even how much "gain" comes from the earth ground line. As there are no batteries that don't drain after a while. Nor will that drain time be an accurate reading of actual charges coming from the ground.Only Rick's battery does not drain. But, it does drain, and needs rotation untii both batteries are dead.
And will need his special and probably expensive charger to bring those two dead batteries back to life again.So there you have it, in a nutshell.

Hi Nick, Well, you could use a current probe on the earth ground wire, but you are going
to see an AC current which doesn't tell you anything about 'OU' or not.
You could try powering the circuit with a super cap bank, if you have some which aren't too leaky.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 08:58:50 PM
Hi a.king. So you have a circuit setup which is different in some ways than the schematic you posted,
but you want people to spend time testing and sharing their circuit setup details and results with you?
That doesn't seem right. :)
Under normal circumstances you are correct.  however the design was replicated by the Ukrainian Agricultural institute under phd examination conditions.  They concluded extra energy was entering the circuit.  I have explained how.
I have also given you the Benitez link to study if you wish.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 09:03:49 PM
What you have to also remember is that it is the theme we are looking at, not the precise parts or circuit diagrams. I used the Ukrainian circuit because it was easy to understand and easy to give people a schematic which they were asking for.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 09:04:12 PM
I think there are too many people keeping secrets out there. 
The lure of money. :) Not that I think most really do have anything unusual.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 09:07:37 PM
For anyone who is inclined to experiment with this type of setup,
you would do well to understand and keep in mind battery discharge curves and
the effects of high frequency circuits on multimeter readings which I outlined
in my previous comment here:
https://overunity.com/18282/a-king-21-build-discussion-investigation/msg536958/#msg536958

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 09:09:44 PM

   "Build it and they will come"
   Who the ET's?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 09:22:51 PM
What sort of secrets ? are men in black ET's what about ET women ? wait till the wife finds out 8).
money is just a means to an end.
All the stuff I have posted has been on threads and you tube since March this year.
I'm not l a great one for collecting money and i don't run any kind of business or wish to.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2019, 09:50:14 PM
   a.king:   I've already spent too much time building things that were just bottle necks to the input source.
   If there is a working OU device that can be looked that, that will show what you are talking about, and shows an accurate schematic, for a replicable device, that would be different. But, a "scheme" is not enough to go on. We've all read patents, and heard the call. But, nothing self running to be seen, so far. Not even Ruslan's 5000 dollar sale, for a device connected to the grid, that did not self run.   The internet is full of free energy devices. Try to buy one that works... good luck.
   That is why we need full specs. Not just someone's schemes.
   Neither Rick nor Nelson will spill the beans, not today anyway. And Dr. Stiffler has died, along with his secret.
Neither Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, nor anyone else will show or explain how anything related to OU, nor just how self running, works, in practice, any more. Nor will any one else. So... were do we go from here?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 18, 2019, 10:17:32 PM
   a.king:   I've already spent too much time building things that were just bottle necks to the input source.
   If there is a working OU device that can be looked that, that will show what you are talking about, and shows an accurate schematic, for a replicable device, that would be different. But, a "scheme" is not enough to go on. We've all read patents, and heard the call. But, nothing self running to be seen, so far. Not even Ruslan's 5000 dollar sale, for a device connected to the grid, that did not self run.   The internet is full of free energy devices. Try to buy one that works... good luck.
   That is why we need full specs. Not just someone's schemes.
   Neither Rick nor Nelson https://overunity.com/17186/the-bifilar-pancake-coil-at-its-resonant-frequency/msg534659/#new will spill the beans, not today anyway. And Dr. Stiffler has died, along with his secret.
Neither Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, nor anyone else will show or explain how anything related to OU, nor just how self running, works, in practice, any more. Nor will any one else. So... were do we go from here?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 18, 2019, 10:18:41 PM
Hi Nick. At least a couple of those people you mentioned may well not have had any beans to spill. :)

The circuit posted by a.king is quite easy to setup, so I may try setting up something
along that line in the next week or so if I can find the time, just to see how well the general concept
shown in the schematic performs. So many things on the go right now...

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: partzman on July 18, 2019, 10:47:25 PM
Aking,

Referring to the Benitez patent 17,811, are you saying you and/or Rick have replicated either the first or second option of this patent and experienced OU?  If so, I'm sure you realize that the mercury-vapor converters or cathodic valves used an internal arc to operate so what did you use for rectifiers in your replications?

Pm
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 18, 2019, 11:08:30 PM
Aking,

Referring to the Benitez patent 17,811, are you saying you and/or Rick have replicated either the first or second option of this patent and experienced OU?  If so, I'm sure you realize that the mercury-vapor converters or cathodic valves used an internal arc to operate so what did you use for rectifiers in your replications?

Pm
It was probably 7 years ago.  I used modern fast diodes. My replication was just a token to see if it worked. So I powered a neon bulb for several minutes under it's own power. The neon bulb kept going out and then coming back to life from nowhere.  You could not say the device was ou because the complicated Tesla switch was battery powered separately. However the concept worked ie the switching was getting energy from the ground.  I then moved on to the car battery setup using  2 in series and 2 in parallel and rotating them around. That worked fine till the Tesla switch failed and killed the batteries. I enclose a pic of the original Benitez "armature" if you could call it that.  I replicated the dotted line version. in 17.811. Even with my pretty poor set up the results were enough to convince me that he was genuine. On energetic, they have replicated Benitez but state it cannot compete with solar re price etc.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 18, 2019, 11:29:06 PM
A king
your image made the page huge{ this bothers many readers do to scrolling back and forth to read.you should shrink it please.
and I know it drives certain Bears...well it makes them cranky .[you ever see a "Drop bear"??YEESH...]
Here I take a moment to Comment to AG who asked about Mark E

Mark E [ a member here who passed on...way too early in life


He worked to help persons all over the world advance the  understanding of super high frequency.. super high speed high power EE technologies ...he was noted world wide in his field for this benevolence [helping other EE's work thru problems ]
Member Poynt once described his work to me as a field of EE research  head and shoulders above normal EE.. studied by very few and understood by even fewer..

To say the least.. Tinsel was the type of experimenter Who could definitely appreciate this mans work and contributions here ....and really miss's him and his help.


To my Knowledge Mark E was at the very top in his field  ,and yes he is missed and we were very fortunate to have had him here.
He practiced brutal honesty and this made it hard for some to interact with him.[was hard for me too at times]
However
At the end of the day it should be a standard which can survive any scrutiny that will truly bring change.
 Chet K  PS sorry if I post too much here ,just wanted to explain ,not trying to distract from the work here.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 19, 2019, 01:12:13 AM
Just a note on the circuit I posted.  You have to get into the diode arrangement that Don Smith suggested to see the benefits.  The basic system will just circulate some of the energy back into the system.. i'll post a more complicated circuit when I hone my drawing skills on paint in a bit. It's when you get into the diode systems that you will see more  lethal voltages across the cap or caps.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: seychelles on July 19, 2019, 07:12:12 AM
forgive me if this is not appropriate.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 19, 2019, 11:50:28 AM
This will blow your transistors if not secure.
This looks a similar circuit why not try this it looks like the original but does not show earth connection.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 19, 2019, 02:26:16 PM
Just a note on the circuit I posted.  You have to get into the diode arrangement that Don Smith suggested to see the benefits.  The basic system will just circulate some of the energy back into the system.. i'll post a more complicated circuit when I hone my drawing skills on paint in a bit. It's when you get into the diode systems that you will see more  lethal voltages across the cap or caps.

Hi a.king. Well, I did mention a couple of times already that I don't think it was Don Smith that created that 'DSE'
document. A forum member at energetic forum originally posted that document and mentioned something
about putting that document together based on his understanding of some Don Smith concepts, from what I recall.
I don't recall Don Smith ever specifically talking abut such an approach however, although it is possible.

Having a higher voltage on a capacitor still says nothing about 'OU'. Could you demonstrate what you mean using
the diode arrangement you mention above so people can have something practical to evaluate regarding
the circuit performance?

P.S. See this free online schematic drawing app from Digikey:
https://www.digikey.com/schemeit/project/
Click 'Try it now', if you don't have a Digikey account.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 19, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
Hi a.king. Well, I did mention a couple of times already that I don't think it was Don Smith that created that 'DSE'
document. A forum member at energetic forum originally posted that document and mentioned something
about putting that document together based on his understanding of some Don Smith concepts, from what I recall.
I don't recall Don Smith ever specifically talking abut such an approach however, although it is possible.

Having a higher voltage on a capacitor still says nothing about 'OU'. Could you demonstrate what you mean using
the diode arrangement you mention above so people can have something practical to evaluate regarding
the circuit performance?

P.S. See this free online schematic drawing app from Digikey:
https://www.digikey.com/schemeit/project/ (https://www.digikey.com/schemeit/project/)
Click 'Try it now', if you don't have a Digikey account.
I hear you.  In one of Don's last videos he shows you an earth grounding through  a cap plate mirroring the violet ray input.
Also this is essentially a modernized Benitez system. So there is prior art - we just missed it because Benitez is so complicated to do. You can use an avramenko on the earth side and experiment with it. Loop back is via an air core or ferrite core trafo.  You can use a bridge or try Benitez's double cathode method of feeding back
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 19, 2019, 03:15:57 PM
I hear you.  In one of Don's last videos he shows you an earth grounding through  a cap plate mirroring the violet ray input.
Also this is essentially a modernized Benitez system. So there is prior art - we just missed it because Benitez is so complicated to do.

Hi a.king. Ok, thanks. That's not ringing a bell, but I will see if I can find the video.
It's been some time since I reviewed Don Smith's stuff.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 19, 2019, 03:24:49 PM
Here's a still shot of the video complete with my spelling errors and typos.  Gives it that individual touch :D
So don't think you can only get milliwatts out of an earth ground. I have had a mains shock. Be careful guys this stuff can kill.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 19, 2019, 03:52:44 PM
Here's a still shot of the video complete with my spelling errors and typos.  Gives it that individual touch :D
So don't think you can only get milliwatts out of an earth ground. I have had a mains shock. Be careful guys this stuff can kill.

Hi a.king. Oh, that demonstration. Ok, I know which one you mean now. :)
Yes, capacitors can 'pass' AC current. HV generators isolated from ground
can still create corona discharge to earth ground or surrounding metallic objects.
Those violet corona discharge streamers carry relatively low current.
However, milliJoules over time adds up to Joules when storing in a suitable capacitor,
which can give major shocks. Still not indicative of OU in itself, however, but this whole
discussion has got me thinking about some possible new circuit arrangements to try, so thanks
for that! I will post some photos here or something if I come across anything interesting.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 07:20:35 PM
(There is something seriously wrong with how the forum is handling CR/LFs these days.)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: forest on July 19, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
yes, admin turn off the filtering  :P
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:04:59 PM
I wanted to post 4 video links but no matter how I separated them with CR/LF (the "Enter" key) the forum wanted to string them all together to make one huge link that would only go to the last actual one.
So I will have to post them one at a time I guess. I think the information in these videos is relevant to this and perhaps a couple other discussions. I know you've all seen some of them before but here they are again.

In no particular order:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:06:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSoZSXX4TJM
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:06:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkXrhRqlQE4
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:07:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aKuwNTiO7I
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcwLFNfxIe8
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 19, 2019, 08:12:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiV99zi8cj4


 8)
That's all for now.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 19, 2019, 10:04:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY


I like your videos TK.  Do you realise you could have charged 10 batteries without loss if you had understood the Heavyside component?



 The action of the Heavyside component is one of the revelations in Rick's videos.  Most people who used the Bedini systems (say the ssg) were only charging one other battery.  However the device is capable of charging several batteries in series and parallel because of the Heavyside component.  This is a phenomenon I noticed probably 7 years ago and did not understand it. (With my own builds - not ssg)
So Rick did me personally a big favour by revealing that secret (amongst many others).

Here is the video which reveals the secrets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-Q77slGAw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-Q77slGAw)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 19, 2019, 10:44:41 PM
Could you maybe summarize it in a paragraph? ;)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 20, 2019, 12:09:20 AM
http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/DonSmith.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/DonSmith.pdf)  look at the DIPOLE TRANSFORMER GENERATOR description.
The plates at right angles collect the Heavyside component.  You don't need a plasma tube. Any wire carrying HV and pulses will do.
You can do it with the DSE in the Ukrainian device if you think about it.  Jeepers the secrets given out here,
Guess what?  The battery plates act as (capacitor plates) collectors of the Heavyside component.  So arrange them nice so you don't mess up the magnetic field and you are home.
Thank you again Rick. 
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 20, 2019, 12:18:11 AM
But does it really work? That is the question...
… or maybe the question is, to be or not to be COP >1? 
 ;)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 20, 2019, 06:20:25 AM
   TK:   Is this OU?   https://youtu.be/_gIuB-f-VnU   If I daisy chain a bunch of those DC to DC converters, I'd have enough power to go to the moon?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 09:39:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY)


I like your videos TK.  Do you realise you could have charged 10 batteries without loss if you had understood the Heavyside component?
I think I "realise" a lot more than you realize.  As far as "understanding" goes.... I'm still laughing too hard.
Quote


 The action of the Heavyside component is one of the revelations in Rick's videos.  Most people who used the Bedini systems (say the ssg) were only charging one other battery.  However the device is capable of charging several batteries in series and parallel because of the Heavyside component.  This is a phenomenon I noticed probably 7 years ago and did not understand it. (With my own builds - not ssg)
So Rick did me personally a big favour by revealing that secret (amongst many others).

Here is the video which reveals the secrets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-Q77slGAw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW-Q77slGAw)
Another great video from the Great Teacher! I especially liked the part starting at about 1:21:47  and going on to about 1:27:00 or so. I haven't laughed so much in days !

"this is a big capacitor" LOL. "And this is just One!" (sticks finger in ear).   But how many picoFarads is that "Big Capacitor"? Replicants want to know.
Barely lighting a fluorescent bulb with a "tesla coil" nonTeslaCoil "violet ray" device through a "big" home made capacitor of a few pF... yep, impressive all right.  That proves the Heaviside Flow!  And it's Dangerous! And look at how much that voltmeter needle moves! I swear, I have not been so impressed with a demonstration since... well, since IEC demonstrated the "Crystal" Earth Engine.

I haven't given a ROFL in a long time but you get one, to share with your guru.



Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 09:45:33 AM
   TK:   Is this OU?   https://youtu.be/_gIuB-f-VnU (https://youtu.be/_gIuB-f-VnU)   If I daisy chain a bunch of those DC to DC converters, I'd have enough power to go to the moon?
But can it charge a home-made "Big Capactor" ?  LOL....

At least you can actually see the needle move on my voltmeter -- and I don't need to do my demonstrations in the dark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw)
It's antigravity all right... but is it OU?    :o

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
But does it really work? That is the question...
… or maybe the question is, to be or not to be COP >1? 
 ;)
It's OU if Rick says it is, and if you can't measure it, you obviously don't know what you are doing, you have cheap obsolete garage sale equipment,  and you need to watch more of those great teaching videos, and maybe even buy a kit or two so that you will understand. OU doesn't come from measurements, it has nothing to do with Joules in and out or COPs, it is the Heaviside Flow at Right Angles that is important. And you can prove this for yourself with a Violet Ray Tesla Coil (that isn't actually a Tesla coil) and a Big Capacitor you built out of some plates of metal and a sheet of plastic for a dielectric. It's simple, once you understand! See that fluorescent bulb light up? OU, Heaviside flow, QED. There is no other possible explanation for the results we are getting.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Hoppy on July 20, 2019, 10:10:20 AM
His looong monotone video presentations will likely lull you into a state of sleep but make an effort to stay awake folks, as some of the visuals are epic entertainment.  ;D
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 10:10:23 AM
Big capacitor? That's not a big capacitor!
THIS is a Big Capacitor.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 20, 2019, 03:10:41 PM
member Wesley donated some of those ,and other things for experimenters here to  use.  and loads of High voltage [super High voltage] stuff .must be crazy expensive !!

Tinsel I have to admit at the 2 min mark...when you place the magic foil enhancer  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw) ...
is that made of unubtanium ?
 I believe Stefan has some fellow who is helping him with Ricks claim.
and hopefully a good presentation for the many members here who have learned what that Looks like over the years.and would gladly help replicate ...with 100% transparency .
 Chet K EDIT To change to high voltage not high frequency
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 03:50:43 PM
member Wesley donated some of those ,and other things for experimenters here to  use.  and loads of HF [super HF] stuff .must be crazy expensive !!

Tinsel I have to admit at the 2 min mark...when you place the magic foil enhancer  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw) ...
is that made of unubtanium ?
You know better than that.     :P     All my demonstrations are done with commonly available and usually very cheap materials. Except the ones that aren't....

In that video, the levitating Gray Matter is an ordinary pingpong ball painted with conductive nickel paint. The Volt Hoses are common bead chain, the little VanDeGraaff machine is made from stainless steel bowls from a restaurant supply store, its internal parts are made of pvc foamcore, paper clips and shimstock, a mabuchi can motor, and a belt made from wide rubber bands, and it is powered by a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Not counting the battery the most expensive parts are the switches. (One for power, and one for motor direction using the Secret of DPDT.) The antigravity chamber is a couple of plastic food containers. The chamber electrodes are pieces of aluminum duct tape carefully shaped and stuck down inside the chamber. And the "magic foil enhancer" is just another piece of that same aluminum duct tape with the backing still on, held in an alligator clip on the end of a bamboo chopstick. It is very important that the chopstick be bamboo.... and I am not kidding at all. The bamboo of the chopstick is like a million megohm resistor to slowly and gracefully drain away some of the high voltage static charge that builds up on the outside of the container and tends to neutralize the antigravity effect. Draining away _some_ of this exterior charge by using the Enhancer connected to the Chopstick connected to the experimenter's Hand allows the AG effect to build up to full strength again. If I used a fully conductive link -- well you can imagine what might happen.    ;)
Quote
I believe Stefan has some fellow who is helping him with Ricks claim.
and hopefully a good presentation for the many members here who have learned what that Looks like over the years.and would gladly help replicate ...with 100% transparency .
 Chet K
As someone who has actually exploded a 0.3 uF, 30 kV Maxwell oil-filled pulse capacitor -- Much Bigger than that grenade up above -- by rapidly discharging it in a severely overvolted state, and nearly died as a result .... all I can say is Be Careful.

EDIT: Be F......G careful. I got another chance. You might not.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 20, 2019, 03:57:13 PM
You know better than that.     :P     All my demonstrations are done with commonly available and usually very cheap materials.

In that video, the levitating Gray Matter is an ordinary pingpong ball painted with conductive nickel paint. The Volt Hoses are common bead chain, the little VanDeGraaff machine is made from stainless steel bowls from a restaurant supply store, its internal parts are made of pvc foamcore, paper clips and shimstock, a mabuchi can motor, and a belt made from wide rubber bands, and it is powered by a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Not counting the battery the most expensive parts are the switches. (One for power, and one for motor direction using the Secret of DPDT.) The antigravity chamber is a couple of plastic food containers. The chamber electrodes are pieces of aluminum duct tape carefully shaped and stuck down inside the chamber. And the "magic foil enhancer" is just another piece of that same aluminum duct tape with the backing still on, held in an alligator clip on the end of a bamboo chopstick. It is very important that the chopstick be bamboo.... and I am not kidding at all. The bamboo of the chopstick is like a million megohm resistor to slowly and gracefully drain away some of the high voltage static charge that builds up on the outside of the container and tends to neutralize the antigravity effect. Draining away _some_ of this exterior charge by using the Enhancer connected to the Chopstick connected to the experimenter's Hand allows the AG effect to build up to full strength again. If I used a fully conductive link -- well you can imagine what might happen.    ;) As someone who has actually exploded a 0.3 uF, 30 kV Maxwell oil-filled pulse capacitor -- Much Bigger than that grenade up above -- by rapidly discharging it in a severely overvolted state, and nearly died as a result .... all I can say is Be Careful.

EDIT: Be F......G careful. I got another chance. You might not.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 20, 2019, 03:58:14 PM
You know better than that.     :P     All my demonstrations are done with commonly available and usually very cheap materials.

In that video, the levitating Gray Matter is an ordinary pingpong ball painted with conductive nickel paint. The Volt Hoses are common bead chain, the little VanDeGraaff machine is made from stainless steel bowls from a restaurant supply store, its internal parts are made of pvc foamcore, paper clips and shimstock, a mabuchi can motor, and a belt made from wide rubber bands, and it is powered by a 12 volt motorcycle battery. Not counting the battery the most expensive parts are the switches. (One for power, and one for motor direction using the Secret of DPDT.) The antigravity chamber is a couple of plastic food containers. The chamber electrodes are pieces of aluminum duct tape carefully shaped and stuck down inside the chamber. And the "magic foil enhancer" is just another piece of that same aluminum duct tape with the backing still on, held in an alligator clip on the end of a bamboo chopstick. It is very important that the chopstick be bamboo.... and I am not kidding at all. The bamboo of the chopstick is like a million megohm resistor to slowly and gracefully drain away some of the high voltage static charge that builds up on the outside of the container and tends to neutralize the antigravity effect. Draining away _some_ of this exterior charge by using the Enhancer connected to the Chopstick connected to the experimenter's Hand allows the AG effect to build up to full strength again. If I used a fully conductive link -- well you can imagine what might happen.    ;) As someone who has actually exploded a 0.3 uF, 30 kV Maxwell oil-filled pulse capacitor -- Much Bigger than that grenade up above -- by rapidly discharging it in a severely overvolted state, and nearly died as a result .... all I can say is Be Careful.

EDIT: Be F......G careful. I got another chance. You might not.
You had an NDE?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 20, 2019, 04:15:28 PM
You could call it that. I was working alone in a remote building at the Alameda Naval Air Station near San Francisco, performing wire explosion segmentation experiments. I used a Bonetti machine capable of 350,000 volts to charge the pulse capacitor and an overvolt limited air gap made from a couple of large stainless steel bowls to set the voltage of the discharge into the wire sample. I had done several shots with the gap set at distance for 50 kV or so and was charging for another shot when I noticed it was taking longer to charge and fire than usual. Meaning that more voltage was going onto the cap than usual. I got the Allah Pole (a long nonconductive stick with a shorting bar on the far end) and stuck it into the gap to initiate the discharge -- and the capacitor exploded, sending shards of its plastic case all over the lab, along with hot oil, and it caught fire. Fortunately I was wearing a full face shield and earmuffs. But that's not what nearly killed me. After I put out the fire I was safetying the big hunk of the shattered capacitor by stringing a wire across the remains of the terminals, and I accidentally brushed my hands somehow to make contact. There was enough charge left in the destroyed capacitor to knock me down and out. I was only out for a few seconds probably and fortunately I didn't hit my head on anything... but there wasn't another person around for a mile in any direction. I could very easily have been seriously injured or killed.

I was very very lucky, and I like to think I'm experienced and know what I'm doing. Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 20, 2019, 04:22:11 PM
Yeesh  late EDIT  Thank you for sharing just how dangerous these seemingly "safe if handled properly" components can be ....go to the next level [ unexpected product failure ??]safety 3rd ...

AG what is "had an NDE" [feels good to ask you about some letters I should probably know ??you can answer in your above post where you ask ...if it doesn't time out [will check it

 NOTE " I corrected my above link you quoted ..HF donations from Wesley to HV ,all 50 thousand volt control circuits for electron beam microscope has MONSTER 50 KV oil bath transformer with MINUTIA super fine control and support system [Wesley says trafo still 80K item from Company who builds them] all super insulated ceramic switches... caps and who knows what else ...was a 1.5 mil piece of Japanese technology

now Careful members here and elsewhere can use in experiments...
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on July 20, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
But can it charge a home-made "Big Capactor" ?  LOL....

At least you can actually see the needle move on my voltmeter -- and I don't need to do my demonstrations in the dark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogpGHFgV6E)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw)
It's antigravity all right... but is it OU?    :o


I don't see the relevance to the Heavyside component.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: AlienGrey on July 20, 2019, 07:06:46 PM
Yeesh  late EDIT  Thank you for sharing just how dangerous these seemingly "safe if handled properly" components can be ....go to the next level [ unexpected product failure ??]safety 3rd ...

AG what is "had an NDE" [feels good to ask you about some letters I should probably know ??you can answer in your above post where you ask ...if it doesn't time out [will check it

 NOTE " I corrected my above link you quoted ..HF donations from Wesley to HV ,all 50 thousand volt control circuits for electron beam microscope has MONSTER 50 KV oil bath transformer with MINUTIA super fine control and support system [Wesley says trafo still 80K item from Company who builds them] all super insulated ceramic switches... caps and who knows what else ...was a 1.5 mil piece of Japanese technology

now Careful members here and elsewhere can use in experiments...
its a near death experience  some times can lead to weird experiences if recover but not every one had mine as a kid lucky i'm still here others might not think so  ;D   .
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Grimer on July 22, 2019, 02:55:14 PM
Big capacitor? That's not a big capacitor!
THIS is a Big Capacitor.
Bloody hell!!!


I'll make sure my Grandson never sees one of those.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 22, 2019, 03:06:25 PM
.wrong topic sorry
  But I will take this opportunity to thank Grimer for his efforts in The Abeling thread.

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 22, 2019, 08:35:46 PM
Bloody hell!!!


I'll make sure my Grandson never sees one of those.
Yep. That capacitor holds a bit over 60 Joules when fully charged, about 2/3 the muzzle energy of a .25 ACP calibre handgun round.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2019, 10:20:33 PM
Big capacitor? That's not a big capacitor!
THIS is a Big Capacitor.

And this is a bigger one !
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 23, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
And this is a bigger one !

Hi Nelson. Yes, 10,000uF @ 450V can store a little over 1000 Joules!
That won't just kill you, it can probably evaporate you. ;)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 23, 2019, 10:32:59 PM
   But, is it OU???   Just kidding...   We need some laughs, once in a while. Right?
   BTW: I really like your self running set up, Nelson. Wish that I had one, as well. Maybe someday.   Watch out you don't evaporate. We'd miss up. Glad that you are posting here again. Maybe people will be friendlier, in the future.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2019, 10:36:06 PM
Hi Nelson. Yes, 10,000uF @ 450V can store a little over 1000 Joules!
That won't just kill you, it can probably evaporate you. ;)

Now imagine 8 in parallel         https://youtu.be/ivH0oLkhKFo?t=7
 :)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 23, 2019, 11:11:00 PM
  I can imagine what those caps would cost. Pretty nice gear that you have now. Nice going.
  So, it looks like you are able to separate the input drawn, from the output drawn. Correct?
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2019, 11:21:15 PM
   But, is it OU???   Just kidding...   We need some laughs, once in a while. Right?
   BTW: I really like your self running set up, Nelson. Wish that I had one, as well. Maybe someday.   Watch out you don't evaporate. We'd miss up. Glad that you are posting here again. Maybe people will be friendlier, in the future.

Hi Nick , that system already gave me more problems, than profit  Nick you don't imagine ..... let change the subject ..
About people become more friendly , is it's debatable that happens because since i know this forum , some hostile opinions come up all time ,  by some elements with a bit more hard approach .


Nick All the best

Nelson Rocha
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2019, 11:27:09 PM
  I can imagine what those caps would cost. Pretty nice gear that you have now. Nice going.
  So, it looks like you are able to separate the input drawn, from the output drawn. Correct?

Nick at moment i only have one . That conf in the video with 8 caps stay retained in Germany like other stuff .
But that stay in my home but yes they are very expensive .

Nick, i know my videos suck , because i don't talk and have bad video , but what is your perception of what is happen  ?

Nelson Rocha
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: lancaIV on July 23, 2019, 11:39:34 PM
Uma boa noite, Sr. Rocha,talvez voce conhece este video dum ucrainio : https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=64s&v=UukXtWSLnh8
Vale um teste ?

Peco por desculpe - off topic

Adeus
OCWL

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 23, 2019, 11:52:10 PM
Now imagine 8 in parallel         https://youtu.be/ivH0oLkhKFo?t=7
 :)

Hi Nelson, I don't have time to watch the video now, but I will try to watch
it this evening and then give you some feedback. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 23, 2019, 11:52:30 PM
Uma boa noite, Sr. Rocha,talvez voce conhece este video dum ucrainio : https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=64s&v=UukXtWSLnh8
Vale um teste ?

Peco por desculpe - off topic

Adeus
OCWL

Sr LancaIV ,
não conheço esse video mas após ver o mesmo não tem a ver tecnicamente com aquilo que mostro no meu video mas obg .
Feliz por saber que mais vozes  Lusas andam por aqui  :)

Cumprimentos :

Nelson Rocha
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: lancaIV on July 24, 2019, 12:01:41 AM
 http://www.jfvilacha.pt/   aonde eu vivo ( actualmente)

Eu percebo a sua demonstra, um pouco tambem" electric wifi radiant distribution".Mas o produto seria o igual : ter ao fim um sistema autonomo

Ate breve
OCWL
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 24, 2019, 12:19:03 AM
http://www.jfvilacha.pt/   aonde eu vivo ( actualmente)

Eu percebo a sua demonstra, um pouco tambem" electric wifi radiant distribution".Mas o produto seria o igual : ter ao fim um sistema autonomo

Ate breve
OCWL

Sr Lanca, viivemos muito perto . Eu moro na Maia e conheço muito muito bem Vila Chã ;) quem sabe um dia ainda damos uma conversinha :)

Cumprimentos :)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Raycathode on July 24, 2019, 01:07:31 AM
Hi Nelson. Yes, 10,000uF @ 450V can store a little over 1000 Joules!
That won't just kill you, it can probably evaporate you. ;)
I think i have 3 x 50,000uf at 450v i recovered from a 3 phase drive in my shack junk box.
Imagin dumping that fully charged into a 6 turn Tesla coil using a solid state spark gap  :o 8)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: TinselKoala on July 24, 2019, 01:12:29 AM
Hi Nelson. Yes, 10,000uF @ 450V can store a little over 1000 Joules!
That won't just kill you, it can probably evaporate you. ;)
That's a lot of energy all right! I wonder what would happen if you overvolted that thing and it exploded, like the one that almost killed me. That cap probably was holding about that same 1 kJ energy when it went, but at a much higher voltage.
450 volts won't jump much of an air gap. 60 kV on the other hand....

 :o
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 24, 2019, 01:22:35 AM
Hi Nelson, regarding your video:
Unfortunately I know very little about motors, but I think that motor's power
consumption is rated around 400 Watts under load? Is that right? 
If that is correct, and since the motor is running with no load, then if we take the
motor's power consumption with no load (power consumption due to losses in the motor only) as say
15% of 400Watts = 0.15 x 400W = 60 Watts
If the input power to your radiant charger device is around 70 Watts, then the setup seems to be performing within
what would be normally expected, but I know little about motors, so I could be wrong with my rough estimation. :)

P.S. That was a very nice bench power supply you were using! :)
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 24, 2019, 01:24:05 AM
That's a lot of energy all right! I wonder what would happen if you overvolted that thing and it exploded, like the one that almost killed me. That cap probably was holding about that same 1 kJ energy when it went, but at a much higher voltage.
450 volts won't jump much of an air gap. 60 kV on the other hand....

 :o


 Hi TK ,
By accident the pack of 8 in parallel was shorted in the output. I have tinnitus caused by the explosion of that short circuit, is indescribable what happen. the light of explosion  blind the 3 persons in the room under 5 minutes. i could die . Yes very danger when we are talk of capacitors .
I have loan to a friend a 30kv 3uf is the bigger hv cap i have  very danger to better be immersed in oil at that levels .


cheers


Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 24, 2019, 01:25:58 AM
That's a lot of energy all right! I wonder what would happen if you overvolted that thing and it exploded, like the one that almost killed me. That cap probably was holding about that same 1 kJ energy when it went, but at a much higher voltage.
450 volts won't jump much of an air gap. 60 kV on the other hand....
 :o

Hi TK. Yes, very dangerous stuff!!!



 Hi TK ,
By accident the pack of 8 in parallel was shorted in the output. I have tinnitus caused by the explosion of that short circuit, is indescribable what happen. the light of explosion  blind the 3 persons in the room under 5 minutes. i could die . Yes very danger when we are talk of capacitors .
I have loan to a friend a 30kv 3uf is the bigger hv cap i have  very danger to better be immersed in oil at that levels .
cheers

Yikes!  :o
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: nelsonrochaa on July 24, 2019, 01:35:00 AM
Hi Nelson, regarding your video:
Unfortunately I know very little about motors, but I think that motor's power
consumption is rated around 400 Watts under load? Is that right? 
If that is correct, and since the motor is running with no load, then if we take the
motor's power consumption with no load (power consumption due to losses in the motor only) as say
15% of 400Watts = 0.15 x 400W = 60 Watts
If the input power to your radiant device is around 70 Watts, then the setup seems to be performing within
what would be normally expected, but I know little about motors, so I could be wrong with my rough estimation. :)


Hi Void ,
My crude measurements numbers that i made  , was 342V x 0.30A  each phase . You could calculate .   P = 3^(1/2)   x   V   x   I   x   COS(pi)
But  yes is running in  steady mode in the video .

cheers
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 24, 2019, 01:42:55 AM

Hi Void ,
My crude measurements numbers that i made  , was 342V x 0.30A  each phase . You could calculate .   P = 3^(1/2)   x   V   x   I   x   COS(pi)
But  yes is running in  steady mode in the video .

cheers

Hi Nelson. The power factor should be quite low when the motor is running under no load I would think,
but I don't know what a reasonable number for the power factor would be for that type of motor
under no load. My estimation of the power consumption under no load may be off. :)
I based my no load power estimation on the motor having an efficiency of around 85% (15% losses in the motor).

P.S. Maybe someone out there who knows a lot about three phase induction motors
could tell me if my no load power consumption estimation for the motor seems reasonable or not. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: NickZ on July 24, 2019, 01:49:59 AM
   I once made one of those capacitors made with water in a glass jar wrapped in aluminum foil. I forget their name now, (leyden jar capacitor?) I think, or something like that.  I was surprised at the jolt that even a small 1.5v battery connected to joule thief, to one of those homemade caps can give. It knocked me off my stool, and I threw my multimeter across the room. So much for that meter...   So, even a small input can be dangerous, when dealing with capacitors like those mentioned.

   Nelson:  I don't really know what to say about what is happening in our video, but, it looks like the input is not being affected by the different outputs drawn, that you've shown. I asked if that was correct, or not. As you seam to have a different set up than anyone else, so it's hard for me to understand all that can be happening, or what exactly is going on. I would have to guess, and I'm not very good at that.   Lets all try to be nice to each other, this time around, and have more "funny with friends". And, try to treat everyone right.
   Thanks,
                Nick
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Void on July 24, 2019, 04:33:04 PM

Hi Void ,
My crude measurements numbers that i made  , was 342V x 0.30A  each phase . You could calculate .   P = 3^(1/2)   x   V   x   I   x   COS(pi)
But  yes is running in  steady mode in the video .
cheers

Hi Nelson for a comparison of my  rough estimate of around 60W (power consumption of the induction motor under no load,
with the motor up to speed, and not including the power consumption of the 3 phase motor controller), here is
a calculation using your rough measured values:

I read that the power factor of an induction motor with no load can be as low as 0.2.
If we take the power factor of your induction motor as say 0.35:
P = sqrt(3)   x   V   x   I   x   power factor
P = 1.732 x 342V x 0.30A x 0.35
P = 62.2 Watts.
That is not including the power consumption of the 3 phase motor controller,
so add some power consumption on top of that for the total power consumption.

Since your input power was around 70 Watts, then these rough estimates seem to be
in the ballpark of what might be expected given the input power consumption, but it is only
a rough estimate. Like I said, I am not very knowledgeable about motors so I could be off on
those estimations. :)

Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on July 24, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
sorry to interrupt
Is there a Model and manufacturer for this motor being discussed here?
will get idling power use info !!

We have plenty of members fluent in application management and design of power needs within these motor systems and duty cycle and loading requirements.
idle load is a critical piece of info in "some" applications
although sometimes it takes a call to technical department to get the proper answers.which I will do if need be.
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: lancaIV on July 25, 2019, 12:09:25 PM
The electric 3 phase motor 0:37
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ivH0oLkhKFo&t=7
https://www.toshiba.com/industrial/global/motors.jsp
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: a.king21 on August 09, 2019, 11:16:58 PM
Demonstration of the DSE by Rick :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhd8Ye4gcVk


Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: Raycathode on August 10, 2019, 12:30:49 AM
Hi A so is that circuit running at 1.1mhz ?  I don't suppose you have a build info on the coils or even a video on a similar device actually running ?

Regards Raymondo
Title: Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
Post by: ramset on August 10, 2019, 01:16:25 AM

I think this is relevant 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cv4XF4FV6w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cv4XF4FV6w)


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Cap charge voltage amplification 1250 %
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC5cTHtfYY)