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Author Topic: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation  (Read 11517 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2019, 11:20:59 PM »
Use 1 joule to create .95 joule and recover 0.95 from original joule
Eat your cake and have it, too?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Void

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2019, 11:31:50 PM »
Which echoes my opinion from when I first worked on this. The paper is incomplete in its description of the data and how it was collected. It might pass for a 10th grade science fair project in the USA (and many things like it probably have, already). A graduate EE thesis.... well, it leaves one wanting. If we can't reproduce overunity measurements, and we don't know how the authors made their OU measurements, but we are familiar with artefacts in HVRF  measurement that they may not be... what are we to conclude?

We can only conclude that the results are questionable with the information we have
in that document. For all we know based on that document, they could have placed a potato
in series with the bulb across the output and estimated the bulb current based on the amount of steam
coming off the potato. :) The results are interesting if the stated measured bulb current was measured accurately though,
and if the average input power really did remain at around 4.2W while the bulbs were lighting.
There is no way to know if this might really be the case with the information provided however.
You just have to take their word for it. :)


Offline partzman

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2019, 11:38:05 PM »
Use 1 joule to create .95 joule and recover 0.95 from original joule

I don't understand.  Could you be more specific as to how I recover .95 joule from the original joule?

Regards,
Pm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2019, 11:38:05 PM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2019, 11:56:11 PM »
I don't understand.  Could you be more specific as to how I recover .95 joule from the original joule?

Regards,
Pm
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Void

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2019, 12:56:39 AM »
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.

I have experimented with the general approach. The problem I have found is it all starts
to fall apart when you try to power a real load. The supply battery runs down just as it would
if you were powering the load directly with no attempt to feed back. Power consumption is power
consumption after all. That energy has to come from somewhere. If the energy is coming from the battery,
then the battery  will run down. If someone can demonstrate a way to pull in extra energy externally from
the environment or wherever else and use that to power a real load, so the supply battery doesn't run down,
then I would be happy to see that demonstration. It might all sound good in theory, but unless you can
pull in extra energy somehow from external to your setup, your source battery is going to run down. I hope we can
all at least agree on that. :)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2019, 12:56:39 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2019, 01:05:14 AM »
Oh, I think I get it now. The system takes one Joule to run but produces 2 Joules. Therefore overunity. But you need to feed one of those back from the output to make the OU and only actually _use_ the leftover one Joule of free energy.    8)











You still have to supply the input, though, from somewhere else.   :'( Otherwise you violate the First Law of Overunity, which says that no OU device can be made to run solely on its own output, or the MiBs will come and get you. 

Offline partzman

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2019, 01:11:08 AM »
You don't use the output.  You feed it back into the input. Feeding back loses the 0.05%  You are assuming that the output is used. It is not.  Benitez explains it better than me. In fact why don't you read Benitez. You only use the output when you are happy with the gain in the circuit.   
Then there is a specific way to use the output.  Rick outed the process in his video when discharging one capacitor into another. So I  thought "Ah well, Rick's  let the cat out of the bag,  may as well join the party".
But this stuff is only 100 years old guys.

That is what I did in my original example.  I took the output and added it back to the input.  I then took that sum and created a new output, etc.  Due to losses it all comes up short of COP>1.

But let's say I do as you say and accumulate the output in some storage device like a capacitor.  After x number of cycles, we will still be less than the input expended due to losses.  So, where is the gain mechanism?

BTW, I've read the Benitez patents.

Regards,
Pm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2019, 01:11:08 AM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2019, 02:41:55 AM »
Oh, I think I get it now. The system takes one Joule to run but produces 2 Joules. Therefore overunity. But you need to feed one of those back from the output to make the OU and only actually _use_ the leftover one Joule of free energy.    8)











You still have to supply the input, though, from somewhere else.   :'( Otherwise you violate the First Law of Overunity, which says that no OU device can be made to run solely on its own output, or the MiBs will come and get you.
It's not running on it's own output anymore than a solar panel is ou.  In the case of a solar panel, the input is from the sun directly.  In the case of te DSE the input is from the electrons in the ambient background which are energised by solar and cosmic action.  The DSE works better during the day than at night and better on high ground than low ground.  This is due to the electrical activity at these times and altitudes. Additionally if you look at electrostatic induction once you potentialize the inside of the capacitor  it can be used to potentialize many cycles of the outside plate of the cap. Hope that makes it clearer.

Offline a.king21

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2019, 02:49:04 AM »
Partzman: Then I take it you disagree with Benitez. Especially his first patent.  May I ask where you see the flaw in his reasoning?
My one concern with Benitez is that in the loop back trafo that it is actually an induction coil  and not a trafo which would have an additional gain input into the system.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2019, 02:49:04 AM »
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Offline Void

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2019, 02:53:39 AM »
It's not running on it's own output anymore than a solar panel is ou.  In the case of a solar panel, the input is from the sun directly.  In the case of te DSE the input is from the electrons in the ambient background which are energised by solar and cosmic action.  The DSE works better during the day than at night and better on high ground than low ground.  This is due to the electrical activity at these times and altitudes.

Hi a.king21. Unfortunately it's all just words unless someone can actually demonstrate it
in a reasonable way. :) At any rate what you said there is not what Don Smith talked about
that I have seen. From what I recall, Don Smith talked about 'disturbing the ambient' which supposedly causes
'separation of electron pairs' or something along that line which 'releases energy' and this energy is
somehow collected by the circuitry. I have already pointed out in the other thread that
Don Smith apparently did not create that 'Don Smith Effect' document, again from what I recall, so
there is no guarantee that DSE stuff really has anything much to do with things Don Smith actually said.


Offline a.king21

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2019, 03:12:02 AM »
Hi a.king21. Unfortunately it's all just words unless someone can actually demonstrate it
in a reasonable way. :) At any rate what you said there is not what Don Smith talked about
that I have seen. From what I recall, Don Smith talked about 'disturbing the ambient' which supposedly causes
'separation of electron pairs' or something along that line which 'releases energy' and this energy is
somehow collected by the circuitry. I have already pointed out in the other thread that
Don Smith apparently did not create that 'Don Smith Effect' document, again from what I recall, so
there is no guarantee that DSE stuff really has anything much to do with things Don Smith actually said.
It has already been done a hundred years ago by Benitez.  i am suggesting some ways in which his device can be modernised.  As an example Edwin Gray modernised the Benitez battery idea and his splitting of the positive is exactly the situation where you have 2 batteries in series and charge 2 batteries in parallel whilst  powering a load between + 24 and +12 .  ie splitting the positive as he calls it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2019, 03:12:02 AM »
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Offline a.king21

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Offline a.king21

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2019, 03:44:30 AM »
The vid and Benitez and the Ukrainian replication is basically this aspect of the Don Smith system: Don had several strokes by this time so some of his grammar was off. It was his parting gift to us before he died so I suggest we analyse it carefully. I jokingly call it the Moron level of comprehension, because those are  the words Don used.

Offline partzman

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2019, 04:11:47 AM »
Partzman: Then I take it you disagree with Benitez. Especially his first patent.  May I ask where you see the flaw in his reasoning?
My one concern with Benitez is that in the loop back trafo that it is actually an induction coil  and not a trafo which would have an additional gain input into the system.

Again I ask specifically, what is the gain mechanism?  I don't see it in the Benitez patent.  Please explain in simple terms so I and others here can understand this phenomenon.  I'm not trying to be difficult but rather wish to understand but honestly, I just don't get it!

Regards,
Pm

Offline Void

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Re: A-King 21 - build discussion /investigation
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2019, 04:35:46 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkAMNFKjds4&feature=youtu.be
7 minutes in.

Hi a.king. I understand the concept of electrostatic induction, and I have experimented with it
using an earth ground to one capacitor plate, and only could ever get flea power out of such an arrangement
even when charging the other capacitor plate to at least 8 kV on a 0.1 uF HV cap at around 20 kHz. If there is a
way to make that work with reasonably high output power, I couldn't find it anyway. Maybe I am not quite enough
of a moron to get it. :)


 

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