# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Low-Q on June 14, 2019, 04:59:32 PM

Title: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 14, 2019, 04:59:32 PM
This is a continuation from this thread: https://overunity.com/18164/a-new-magnetmotor-idea-for-you-to-evaluate/ (https://overunity.com/18164/a-new-magnetmotor-idea-for-you-to-evaluate/)

I have done some thinking about ways to swap magnetic polarity without doing work to do so.
An electric DC motor is doing this polarity swap due to the commutators. However, it has been a puzzle finding ways to do this with permanentmagnets without applying energy.

My idea how to solve this puzzle is based on the animation further down the thread I linked to, but the two rotors can be rotating in parallell.
This animation shows the non parallell rotors:
https://youtu.be/d-6vbiLksys (https://youtu.be/d-6vbiLksys)

If you look at that youtube animation. Imagine that magnets is placed in a row along the thin thread around the pulleys. One half of the magnets points N outwards. The other half have S pointing outwards.
Two stator magnets surrounds the rotormagnets.

The chain of magnets that is placed up and down around the rotors pulleys is kept stationary on the very top and very bottom. So when the rotors turns around, the pulleys will just roll along this chain. In this way the magnetic polarity of the rotor magnets will not move, but the wave shape will move around. Each vertical part of the chain is attracting or repelling the statormagnet.
Since the polarity swap is stationary, and the magnetic fields from the rotormagnets is moving around, in spite of a physically stationary rotormagnet, the cost of polarity swap should be zero.

What do you think?

I will post some photos later, but I am quite busy today.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 14, 2019, 11:29:43 PM
I made a video that explains how the motor works
https://youtu.be/ykYH4OjaorU

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 16, 2019, 09:21:38 PM
The picture describes how my idea is supposed to work, but the magnetic poles swaps as describen in the youtube video above.
Like this 12-pole DC motor, the magnetic polarity change from N to S on the top and S to N on the bottom. This is exactly what happens with my design.
Link to 12-pole DC motor animation:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4cfbb9_ce054af8296d43039951c035fb4f5912.gif

It remains to see how my design works in real life. I have no explanation on how it wont work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: telecom on June 19, 2019, 05:58:14 PM
I made a video that explains how the motor works
https://youtu.be/ykYH4OjaorU

Vidar

You will need a thrust bearing at the bottom to illuminate friction as much as possible.
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 20, 2019, 03:24:04 PM
You will need a thrust bearing at the bottom to illuminate friction as much as possible.
Yes. The illustration I did, had a tight flexible plastic filament as "magnets". Ofcourse this has lots of friction.
I need some kind of a conveoyr belt. Tried to print small links, but the printer isn't accurate enough to make a smooth chain/conveyor belt. So it must be scaled up a lot.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: shylo on June 21, 2019, 08:28:28 PM
Hi Vidar
I can't see how it could work.
What needs to be figured out is how to make a magnetic levitating rotor. Zero friction.
I'm working on it ,but everything I try is a fail.
artv
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 24, 2019, 12:35:18 PM
Hi Vidar
I can't see how it could work.
What needs to be figured out is how to make a magnetic levitating rotor. Zero friction.
I'm working on it ,but everything I try is a fail.
artv
If positive torque is produced, like what's happening in a normal electro motor, there is no need for zero friction bearing. Normal electro motors works well without frictionless bearings.
The goal is to let the motor to do work. If it does in one way or the other, it can easily overcome friction in normal ball bearings.

That said, this idea is just an idea. The idea came to me because I cannot see why it shouldn't work. The only obstacle I can imagine is where the magnetic belt goes from one polarity to the other polarity. This point in the belt is staying stationary in the rotational direction, but it must move up and down and around the pulleys perpendiculary to rotation.

Since the magnetic belt is an array of magnets, the magnetic field that rounds the pulleys will go from in line to perpendicular between 0. 90, and 180° to the field from the stator magnet. The magnetic force will act radially on the pulleys and will not prevent rotation. The straight parts have no magnetic resistance when the magnet array moves perpendicular to the stator magnetic field.
At the point where the magnet array shifts polarity, there is a magnetic field that goes in line with the array. So when this point is at the top of the pulley, it lays perpendicular to the stator magnetic field.

In either case, the straight parts of the magnetarray/belt wants to turn around its own axis (wants to twist the straight parts) and create torque in the same direction before and after it has passed the center of each stator magnet, just like the electromagnets in an ordinary electric motor does.
The only obstacle I can think of is the behaviour of the point where the array goes from one polarity to the other, as this point is moving across the statormagnets as it rolls "backwards" with respect to the pulleys.. Just to remind you, the array/belt magnets are fixed with one polarity on one half, and another polarity on the other half. It is only the wave shape that is supposed to force the rotor to turn - like a surfer on a wave in the ocean.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: SciAnt on June 25, 2019, 06:24:05 AM
My motor generator testing with full bridge drive also support 1 phase drive
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: broli on June 25, 2019, 10:32:43 AM
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 25, 2019, 08:59:07 PM
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?
I have thinked of that too, but see one obvious problem. The weights furter from the hub, lets say on the right side, will move upwards around each pulley while the left weights closest to the hub moves downwards around the pulleys to keep the chain at the bottom and top in the same position.
Since gravity acts on the weights around the pulleys as well as the weights in stright line between them, the torque is counterforced.
With an array of magnets, the field around the pulleys is not as attractive or repulsive to the stator field the same way as the straight portions where the field us in line with the stator field.
Gravity has no field polarization, but magnetic fields has. So it is a difference in the way those forces work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 26, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?
Using heavier chain on one side will not work. It will follow the same principle as using unbalanced weights in the chain.
If the distance around each pulley is 1/4, 1/5, 1/7, 1/10 of the straight chain between the two rotors, the angular velocity around the pulleys must be 4, 5, 7 or 10 times faster than angular velocity of the rotors circumference - in order to keep the heavier chain on the same side all the time. This will counterbalance the kinetic energy both ways no matter how you design this, and therefor not work.

With magnetism, the rules of forces are different, because the magnetic flux paths from two magnets must be orientated more or less than 90° on eachother (parallell paths will have the strongest attraction/repulsion) to repel or attract. Magnetic flux paths that cross eachother 90° will have no impact no matter how strong the magnetic fields around each magnets are.
Therfor, the magnets that is going around the pulleys will have a field that is not longer parallell with the stator field. Also, there is no flux gradient that change around the pulleys as the magnetic array is moving around the, and therfor not held back like gravity does on the heavy chain.

Where the magnetic array goes from one polarity to the other, you will have a moving flux gradient, that will have an impact on the stator field, but if the pulleys are kept outside the statormagnet, this gradient is not moving inside a magnetic field while it is going arount the pulleys. Instead, the flux gradient is only crossing the stator field perpendicular to rotation. The moving gradient will attract or repel when entering the field from the top, but the same when it leaves the field at the bottom, with a netto force that cancels out.
The only field gradient we are left with, is the straight parts of the magnet array that has its own torque in the same direction.
The torque that is applied here will force the rotor to turn, just like when you want to loosen or tighten wheel bolts when changing wheels on your car. The torque around the wheel bolts is outside the wheel hub, but without applying brakes, the wheel will turn as you try to tighten or loosen the bolts.
The straight parts of the magnetic arrays is the "tightening wheel bolts" in this case, forcing the rotors to turn. That is the idea. I cannot figure out what stops this from working, but I do not say that this works in real life as I imagine it will ;)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 26, 2019, 08:42:42 PM
I just ordered 400pcs of these cylindrical magnets.
Magnetized througn length. N50 "China strength" - probably N35 or so.
These are perfect for making a magnetic chain. Just 3D-printing links and make long chains that is stable with low friction.
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 27, 2019, 12:26:36 PM
Here is the drawing I use as basis to print out parts for the magnetic chain.

Arrows explains how things work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 27, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Here is the visual explanation. Look at the chain as it rolls backwards in pos 1 - 3 where the stator field is weakest. then the wave is kept polarized in repulsion mode away from North and attraction towards South until the chain change polarity after 180° rotation (Just like the rotor in an electric motor). The chain is supposed to be arranged as multiple waves around the circuference, but it takes too much time to draw everything. The example of a partial chain is just for simplicity.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on June 30, 2019, 08:55:19 PM
Testing the mechanical concept with 5mm bolts.
The complete build will be LARGE. Looking at this one piece, and I need at least 8 pulleys on both wheels to minimize the twist of chain between the pulleys, and lots of chain. I'm not yet sure if 400 magnets will be enough...

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 14, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
400pcs 20mm long, 5mm in diameter.
Finally some build can begin  :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 15, 2019, 12:12:59 PM
I also ordered a lot of 100mm x 20mm x 5mm Y30 ferrite magnets. Ferrites are weaker than neos, but much cheaper, and a 100 x 20 x 5 can hold approx 4kg iron piece if kept flushed with the magnet. I will use them as stator magnet. Placing them side by side to create one 180° arch with N/S, inner/outer radius, and one opposite S/N inner/outer radius.
A link to the magnets I bought 4 lots of (40 pcs in total).

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042647.0.0.857b4c4dMaBBga&orderId=104072272334732&productId=32905629608 (https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042647.0.0.857b4c4dMaBBga&orderId=104072272334732&productId=32905629608)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 15, 2019, 03:22:24 PM
Here is a simplified explanation on how magnetic timing can enhance torque.
The figure explains that timing is related to how many degrees the brushes in an electric DC motor is turned 45° in the same direction as the rotor is going.
The round magnets is supposed to be electromagnets. Commutators are not shown, but the magnetic polarity is shown.

In my design, however, I use a belt with lots of magnets. One half has South outwards, and the other half has North outwards. This is how and why an electric DC motor work.
It is only the magnetic field that rotates, and not the physical magnets. More precise; the physical rotormagnets moves perpendicular to rotation and across the magnetic field instead of along with it.
This is possible because the belt with all the magnets winds along and between the pulleys clockwise in the same speed as the pulleys moves counterclockwise.

This design will become more clear when I have built it - and it will also become more clear how the mechanics is supposed to work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 15, 2019, 04:18:46 PM
Refering to the figure above, with the white arrows:
The white arrows is responsible for some of the torque, but not all. It is responsible for approx 1/3 of the torque.
What is done when the belt/chain is held back so it can wind itself "backwards" as illustrated in the second figure above, is that all the contribution of this force is lost.
However, the torque around the magnets will still be there, and not affected by this. Since the torque in the magnets is approx 60% greater, I have a positive result.

If we imagine that the motor is laying flat, horizontally:
The next obstacle might be where the pole on the belt change direction, and how that magnetic field oppose the field from the statormagnet as it winds backwards and enter and exits the vertical statorfield.
I think that, if the statormagnet is wider than the rotor, the vertical field gets weaker. Still, the horizontal field, that accounts for the torque in the rotormagnets, will not get weaker, but more and more parallell to the rotorfield as the statormagnet is wider (taller, if we look at a laying statormagnet).
The horizontal statorfield has a gradient. This gradient is responsible for the torque.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 16, 2019, 10:07:39 PM
Printed out two main rotors. Now printing 24 pcs spokes.
Next is 24 pcs pulleys.
You can see one spoke and pulley attached to one of the main rotors.
The other image shows red end caps, green belt part.
Last picture is a small assambly of two magnets, belt part, and the end cap for the magnets. 288 pcs of each will be printed too. All white plastic...

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 17, 2019, 12:07:55 PM
Finished the rotors. Printing the belt links.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 18, 2019, 11:59:15 AM
Finished all 144 belt links and 288 magnet-endcaps. Printing 24x pulleys now - 7 hours remaining...

Finally, some gears attaced to 12 of the pulleys, and a circular gear track. These gears will wind the belt "backwards" into fixed position as the wave shape and magnetig field is rotating.
Looks good this far :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 18, 2019, 06:52:28 PM
Testrunning a small belt. All magnets with same direction, across the belt.
This belt feels like a soft stress ball. Low friction.
Tested it on one pulley attached to the drilling machine. Looks smooth, except the belt jumped off and escaped towards the steel on the chuck.
https://youtu.be/4jUJCroVGbM

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 19, 2019, 10:49:34 PM
Starting to get some shape now.
These rotors are turned 15° from eachother.
I will finish the magnetic belt, but before that I'll put a 34mm spacer on the rod to keep perfect distance between the wheels so the number of links in the belt adds up with as little tension as possible. A quick test shows very little friction, but who cares. If this works, friction is not a problem...

Still waiting for a bunch of ferrite magnets to arrive. Those will be stator magnets. I'm afraid they're not long enough. 100mm long, and the width of the complete wheel, including belt, is approx 80mm. Rotor diameter is approx 225mm.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 20, 2019, 04:41:01 PM
Assembling a belt is time consuming. Not even finished 50% of it after 3 hours work. Every link need tweaking... :o

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: gotoluc on July 20, 2019, 07:28:46 PM
Hi Vidar,

I can't believe no one has commented since you started showing your building progress, which is awesome by the way and so is your design.

I'm sure everyone is looking forward in seeing the results of this most interesting idea.

I assume you have to tune each link because of small printing imperfections?

Thanks for sharing

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: tinman on July 21, 2019, 02:16:44 AM
Hi Vidar,

I can't believe no one has commented since you started showing your building progress, which is awesome by the way and so is your design.

I'm sure everyone is looking forward in seeing the results of this most interesting idea.

I assume you have to tune each link because of small printing imperfections?

Thanks for sharing

Regards
Luc

Well Luc,i cant believe i missed this project either.
What a huge project.

Will be keeping an eye on this one for sure.

Good job Vidar  ;)

Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 21, 2019, 10:23:01 PM

Yes, I think it is an interesting design. I posted a less detailed idea on an alternative energy source website a while ago. Engineers and inventors had never seen this idea before. Funny to know that no one, or at least possibly very few people has ever thinked about this approach before. They hadn't seen this before, or even thinked about anything similar :)

I have been struggeling with tweaking, when I finally realized that the printer nozzle is 0.4, not 0.5...
I must start over with all pulleys, links, and end caps. Did some improvements in the design so it doesn't jump off so easily. Every part of the belt is internally repelling. This force the belt radially to jump off the pulleys (which has too small teeth).
Narrower pulley, longer teeths,and wider end caps will secure the belt and the magnets much better.

The temp sensor sometimes glitches, so filament got burned. Replaced the nozzle three times just today...

I'll keep going anyways :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 22, 2019, 01:19:51 AM
Printing gears for the pulleys. These will follow a large gear so the belt can keep its polarity still.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 26, 2019, 09:18:13 AM
New better parts on its way. This will secure the belt much better, and makes it possible to put glue into the endcaps to secure the magnets.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: mitchellleary on July 28, 2019, 11:59:46 AM
This is really interesting Vidar! I'm looking forward to seeing the development of your idea!!
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 28, 2019, 08:50:25 PM
This is really interesting Vidar! I'm looking forward to seeing the development of your idea!!
Thanks. I'm still working on it :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 28, 2019, 09:04:06 PM
If somebody have a good idea on how to make good gears, let me know. I need a 4:1 gear ratio. Each pulley have 6 "teeth" that fits the belt links, but need to wind "backwards" (relative to the rotor) 24 links of the chain for each 15 degree turn. I printed a small gear, but the 5mm shaft is almost too wide to get any solid material between the teeth. The gear version in earlier post with 10 teeth is too big and will wind back only 12 links. And then the polarity swap on the belt will move 1 degree forward while the rotors turns 2 degrees. I need 0 degrees motion of the belt itself.
I can print with a smaller nozzle, 0.1mm, to get presice small gears with more teeth on it, but I'm afraid the plastic gears will stuck on the circular stationary teeth array that surrounds the rotor.

First test will be without winding gears to examine the concept more easily. Only a thread attached to the belt that I can rewind with.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 30, 2019, 11:26:53 PM
Working with neos is a pain. Finally finished approx 2 meters of magnetic chain. All that fits on a 25cm diameter rotor...
However, it is obvious that the spokes needs reinforcement.
The whole chain compress the pulleys towards eachother.
Attached pictures of my "christmast tree".

Vidar

Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 31, 2019, 08:57:11 AM
I'm making a 18cm diameter, 36mm hight cylinder. This will be placed between the rotors so the spokes doesn't get bent towards each other.
Hopefully that will work better.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 31, 2019, 03:02:58 PM
Just bought 6 lots (60pcs) of small ball bearings. Stainless steel. High rating at Aliexpress, so I guess they're good - and hopefully not ferromagnetic.
I'm afrais the plastic pulleys will grind themself into the bolts and lock up totally.
I also got a confirmation that the statormagnets has arrived the local postal office :-)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 31, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
Ahh...statormagnets have arrived. 40pcs 100x10x5mm and 20 100x20x5mm ferrite magnets. Actually quite powerful.
Now, the build of an arch used as template to arrange the magnets to a cylindrical statormagnet.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on July 31, 2019, 11:34:13 PM
Testing the chain. Much friction between the plastic pulleys an the 5mm bolts I'm using as axles.
Looking forward to receive the ball bearings.
https://youtu.be/2Yjzo1xVPlc (https://youtu.be/2Yjzo1xVPlc)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 01, 2019, 08:41:56 PM
I marked the magnet-chain in red and blue. Then stumbling throug an explanation in english.
This video just shows how the chain winds backwards as the rotor goes forward.
https://youtu.be/UCTQWhBLAqk

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: broli on August 02, 2019, 09:27:25 AM
I marked the magnet-chain in red and blue. Then stumbling throug an explanation in english.
This video just shows how the chain winds backwards as the rotor goes forward.
https://youtu.be/UCTQWhBLAqk (https://youtu.be/UCTQWhBLAqk)

Vidar

Very cool build, it looks like a piece of kinetic art. Hopefully you meet success.
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 05, 2019, 09:23:34 AM

Very cool build, it looks like a piece of kinetic art. Hopefully you meet success.
Thanks Broli. It would be very cool if I pull this off - and with open source like this forum, anyone can replicate it - no patents, no requests for investors for million dollar foundings ;)
I have still not found mechanical reasons why it can't work, so time will show.
Still waiting for ballbearings, and the build of a statormagnet hasn't been started yet.

Vidar

Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 11, 2019, 11:05:51 PM
Testing rewinding gears. This is a 10T gear. Maybe 8T is better, as the teeth gets larger with better grip.
Still waiting for the ballbearings to arrive. I have the tracking number, so they are on its way.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 26, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
The bearings for alle the pulleys has arrived Norway, and they are hopefully in my mailbox this evening or tomorrow.
No new pictures this time.
I can however say that this concept has been posted among people with good understanding in physics, and they cannot tell where or what will stop this motor from running. At least it gives me hope that there is a concept that no one has ever thinked of before. Something new. If this motor doesn't work, I am still happy to know that the concept has never before been published, even though I might think that someome in the world should have had the same or similar idea before me.

Best of all, if this thing works, the idea and the construction drawings are already public, and open source. But I wonder if it is legal for someone else to patent an idea that is already public domain. I have no plan for patents, but I am afraid if someone patent the idea in their name, and restrict everyone to replicate or build this for commercial use - for example in places where electricity is not possible to make, but can assist in making waterwell-pumps or generators in poor dry countries.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Floor on August 26, 2019, 09:11:38 PM

But I wonder if it is legal for someone else to patent an idea that is already public domain. I have no plan for patents, but I am afraid if someone patent the idea in their name, and restrict everyone to replicate or build this for commercial use - for example in places where electricity is not possible to make, but can assist in making waterwell-pumps or generators in poor dry countries.

Vidar

Hi Vidar

A device or method cannot be patented unless it is new.  Once published that device or cannot be considered as new.

regards
floor
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: vineet_kiran on August 27, 2019, 05:42:01 AM

I can however say that this concept has been posted among people with good understanding in physics, and they cannot tell where or what will stop this motor from running.

I didn't  understand the working concept but as for as my experience, you need a tangential force to rotate a pulley or a wheel.  In your shown figure, the stater magnet will simply push out the repelling portion of chain and pull in the attractive portion of the chain. There is no tangential force to keep the pulley rotating.  ( if I have got it right)
May be I am wrong.  Wish you good luck.
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 27, 2019, 02:08:57 PM
I didn't  understand the working concept but as for as my experience, you need a tangential force to rotate a pulley or a wheel.  In your shown figure, the stater magnet will simply push out the repelling portion of chain and pull in the attractive portion of the chain. There is no tangential force to keep the pulley rotating.  ( if I have got it right)
May be I am wrong.  Wish you good luck.
That is actually a very good explanation, and I believe it is something right about it.
So, what you suggest is that if I push on the vertical chain, I can push as hard as I want without turning the rotor?

I must remind you that it is a gear at each of the bottom pulleys that will get a tangential force from the stationary sprocket, shown in the image earlier, which will force the pulleys to turn and wind the chain into constant position when the rotor turns. What do you think?

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: vineet_kiran on August 27, 2019, 04:25:18 PM

I must remind you that it is a gear at each of the bottom pulleys that will get a tangential force from the stationary sprocket, shown in the image earlier, which will force the pulleys to turn and wind the chain into constant position when the rotor turns. What do you think?

For turning the rotor you should have a tangential force on the rotor which operates rack and pinion arrangement (gears) to rotate the
pulley.

Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 27, 2019, 04:54:14 PM
For turning the rotor you should have a tangential force on the rotor which operates rack and pinion arrangement (gears) to rotate the
pulley.
Yes. I know. I will figure this out in a few days. I received the ballbearings today so I can complete the build.
Then I'll do some mechanical tests, maybe just use the air compressor on the vertical chain parts to see if the rotor will turn at all.
The stainless steel ballbearings will be put in pairs for each pulley to reduce friction. Easier to tell what's going on that way.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on August 27, 2019, 09:51:39 PM
Like a glove. Testing ballbearings.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 03, 2019, 07:39:51 PM
Mounted all the bearings. 48 pcs in total. The 6 teeth pulleys are too small. The belt is cogging a lot.
So I redesign the rotor to have larger pulleys, 12 teeth, and twice the diameter.
This will reduce cogging, and I can choose a 1:1 gear ratio which means a lot for better grip and less complications. However, larger pulleys might force the chain to twist more at shorter distance.
Here is a video that shows the cogging.
https://youtu.be/vLGRJyvR0Ao (https://youtu.be/vLGRJyvR0Ao)

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: vineet_kiran on September 05, 2019, 03:23:28 AM
Insert a steel plate in the gap and see if it still cogs.  Steel plate provides a smooth passage for the flux.
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 05, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
Insert a steel plate in the gap and see if it still cogs.  Steel plate provides a smooth passage for the flux.
It's not the magnetism that cogs, but the chain got more tension when the flat surface on each link rounds the pulleys. So the cogging is mechanical, not magnetic.
What I say is, if I replaced the magnets with something else, it would still cog.

A larger pulley will reduce this problem quite much.

Vidar

Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: T-1000 on September 06, 2019, 02:20:56 AM
Hi there,

As magnetic cogging was mentioned.. It is always same no matter what shape/additional magnet movements people are making.
The thing is, not much people are attacking problem root cause which is opposing force created in first place. In mother Nature this is solved really simply with 3rd force opposing 2nd force so the original force move freely.

As an practical idea, you can even take V-Gate magnet motor and add simple mod to it:
1) While magnets moving have little generator coil charging capacitor.
2) Then have coil next to magnets on stator on position where cogging occurs.
3) At the moment magnet rotor approach to cogging position disconnect capacitor then discharge into 2) coil and neutralise opposing force from the stator which is causing this.

As the result of that the initial rotationary force should go free.

Happy experimenting everyone!
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Raycathode on September 06, 2019, 09:40:32 AM
Insert a steel plate in the gap and see if it still cogs.  Steel plate provides a smooth passage for the flux.
Steel, iron would be better, but then what is Mu=Metal for?

Or perhaps counter magnetic influence like gravity and electromagnetic coil would be better still!

Raymondo
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 06, 2019, 04:36:55 PM
Just to remind you: The cogging in this experiment is not magnetic. It is mechanical. Each link have a flat/straight surface, and the fulcrum on eacn is placed on each side. When the links gets to a certain angle (some degrees rotation), the fulcrums for each link around the pulleys are not longer at constant distance to eachother, but wants to be slightly longer when it cannot. This will force the chain to get more tense. This difference in tension will repeat when each link pass through that point. This is why the cogging is there. The magnets themself are relatively good spaced from eachother, and not particulary strong, so the cogging is not magnetic.

I have finished 6 of the new larger pulleys. The next six pulleys will have a gear on them with the same diameter, so I got 1:1 gear ratio instead of 2:1 and 1/2 diameter of the smaller pulleys.
Also the gears will be 4 times larger than before since the pulleys are twice as large, and the gears have the same diameter as the pulleys. That means better grip, much less friction, and easier to examine the inner workings of the "motor".

Remember, I build this thing first and foremost to examine how this will work. The laws of thermodynamics is still boiling at high temperature back in my head. So I have no expectation that this invention will work as a free energy motor. But ofcourse, it would be awesome if it actually works... I have no plan B, so if it works, I don't know what to do, except share my findings as open source so anyone can build one. This thread is open to anyone, so I cant patent it anyways.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 10, 2019, 02:42:51 PM
I fount the 3D-printer quite scewed, so I had to straighten it up. Printing new pulleys with larger gears.
The gears is smaller than the pulley, but that is because the gear can be placed behind the pulleys, and therfor closer to the hub.
This will also allow smaller space between the magnetic chain and the statormagnet.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 14, 2019, 09:42:39 PM
Finished the large sprocket, and three of the geared pulleys.
This is going slow, but it is more to come.

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: Low-Q on September 20, 2019, 04:34:47 PM
Then we start over. Making a larger hub because the chain cannot get stuck between the pulleys.
The pulleys can't just be scaled down because the chain wil not fit.
I have spent more than a kilogram of plastic filament in trial and error. This piece of s**t is hard to align correctly.
New pictures with somewhat progress, but still back to square one.
First picture is the new hub.
Second picture is a sloppy test to see how far out from the hub I need to place the pulleys without pinching the chain between them. Also the sprocket (large ring with teeth on it) is too small. Resizing that one means resizing the pulley-gears accordingly. Puh...this is a pain >:(

Vidar
Title: Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
Post by: vineet_kiran on September 21, 2019, 05:11:37 AM
My feeling is,  it is better to verify the working principle first with one unit of chain, pulley and stator magnet.  If it works, ie., if working principle is confirmed, then you can complete the loop. It saves lot of time and your energy (which is not free!).