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Author Topic: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved  (Read 3248 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« on: June 14, 2019, 04:59:32 PM »
This is a continuation from this thread: https://overunity.com/18164/a-new-magnetmotor-idea-for-you-to-evaluate/


I have done some thinking about ways to swap magnetic polarity without doing work to do so.
An electric DC motor is doing this polarity swap due to the commutators. However, it has been a puzzle finding ways to do this with permanentmagnets without applying energy.


My idea how to solve this puzzle is based on the animation further down the thread I linked to, but the two rotors can be rotating in parallell.
This animation shows the non parallell rotors:
https://youtu.be/d-6vbiLksys


If you look at that youtube animation. Imagine that magnets is placed in a row along the thin thread around the pulleys. One half of the magnets points N outwards. The other half have S pointing outwards.
Two stator magnets surrounds the rotormagnets.


The chain of magnets that is placed up and down around the rotors pulleys is kept stationary on the very top and very bottom. So when the rotors turns around, the pulleys will just roll along this chain. In this way the magnetic polarity of the rotor magnets will not move, but the wave shape will move around. Each vertical part of the chain is attracting or repelling the statormagnet.
Since the polarity swap is stationary, and the magnetic fields from the rotormagnets is moving around, in spite of a physically stationary rotormagnet, the cost of polarity swap should be zero.


What do you think?


I will post some photos later, but I am quite busy today.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 11:29:43 PM »
I made a video that explains how the motor works
https://youtu.be/ykYH4OjaorU


Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 09:21:38 PM »
The picture describes how my idea is supposed to work, but the magnetic poles swaps as describen in the youtube video above.
Like this 12-pole DC motor, the magnetic polarity change from N to S on the top and S to N on the bottom. This is exactly what happens with my design.
Link to 12-pole DC motor animation:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4cfbb9_ce054af8296d43039951c035fb4f5912.gif


It remains to see how my design works in real life. I have no explanation on how it wont work.




Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 09:21:38 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 05:58:14 PM »
I made a video that explains how the motor works
https://youtu.be/ykYH4OjaorU


Vidar

You will need a thrust bearing at the bottom to illuminate friction as much as possible.

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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2019, 03:24:04 PM »
You will need a thrust bearing at the bottom to illuminate friction as much as possible.
Yes. The illustration I did, had a tight flexible plastic filament as "magnets". Ofcourse this has lots of friction.
I need some kind of a conveoyr belt. Tried to print small links, but the printer isn't accurate enough to make a smooth chain/conveyor belt. So it must be scaled up a lot.


Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2019, 03:24:04 PM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2019, 08:28:28 PM »
Hi Vidar
I can't see how it could work.
What needs to be figured out is how to make a magnetic levitating rotor. Zero friction.
I'm working on it ,but everything I try is a fail.
artv

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 12:35:18 PM »
Hi Vidar
I can't see how it could work.
What needs to be figured out is how to make a magnetic levitating rotor. Zero friction.
I'm working on it ,but everything I try is a fail.
artv
If positive torque is produced, like what's happening in a normal electro motor, there is no need for zero friction bearing. Normal electro motors works well without frictionless bearings.
The goal is to let the motor to do work. If it does in one way or the other, it can easily overcome friction in normal ball bearings.


That said, this idea is just an idea. The idea came to me because I cannot see why it shouldn't work. The only obstacle I can imagine is where the magnetic belt goes from one polarity to the other polarity. This point in the belt is staying stationary in the rotational direction, but it must move up and down and around the pulleys perpendiculary to rotation.


Since the magnetic belt is an array of magnets, the magnetic field that rounds the pulleys will go from in line to perpendicular between 0. 90, and 180° to the field from the stator magnet. The magnetic force will act radially on the pulleys and will not prevent rotation. The straight parts have no magnetic resistance when the magnet array moves perpendicular to the stator magnetic field.
At the point where the magnet array shifts polarity, there is a magnetic field that goes in line with the array. So when this point is at the top of the pulley, it lays perpendicular to the stator magnetic field.


In either case, the straight parts of the magnetarray/belt wants to turn around its own axis (wants to twist the straight parts) and create torque in the same direction before and after it has passed the center of each stator magnet, just like the electromagnets in an ordinary electric motor does.
The only obstacle I can think of is the behaviour of the point where the array goes from one polarity to the other, as this point is moving across the statormagnets as it rolls "backwards" with respect to the pulleys.. Just to remind you, the array/belt magnets are fixed with one polarity on one half, and another polarity on the other half. It is only the wave shape that is supposed to force the rotor to turn - like a surfer on a wave in the ocean.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 12:35:18 PM »
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Offline SciAnt

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 06:24:05 AM »
My motor generator testing with full bridge drive also support 1 phase drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=992QtAfu6FU

Offline broli

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 10:32:43 AM »
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 10:32:43 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 08:59:07 PM »
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?
I have thinked of that too, but see one obvious problem. The weights furter from the hub, lets say on the right side, will move upwards around each pulley while the left weights closest to the hub moves downwards around the pulleys to keep the chain at the bottom and top in the same position.
Since gravity acts on the weights around the pulleys as well as the weights in stright line between them, the torque is counterforced.
With an array of magnets, the field around the pulleys is not as attractive or repulsive to the stator field the same way as the straight portions where the field us in line with the stator field.
Gravity has no field polarization, but magnetic fields has. So it is a difference in the way those forces work.


Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2019, 01:59:17 PM »
Could you not also use gravity instead of magnetism, where one side of the chain has more mass than the other?
Ref. my answer above.
Using heavier chain on one side will not work. It will follow the same principle as using unbalanced weights in the chain.
If the distance around each pulley is 1/4, 1/5, 1/7, 1/10 of the straight chain between the two rotors, the angular velocity around the pulleys must be 4, 5, 7 or 10 times faster than angular velocity of the rotors circumference - in order to keep the heavier chain on the same side all the time. This will counterbalance the kinetic energy both ways no matter how you design this, and therefor not work.


With magnetism, the rules of forces are different, because the magnetic flux paths from two magnets must be orientated more or less than 90° on eachother (parallell paths will have the strongest attraction/repulsion) to repel or attract. Magnetic flux paths that cross eachother 90° will have no impact no matter how strong the magnetic fields around each magnets are.
Therfor, the magnets that is going around the pulleys will have a field that is not longer parallell with the stator field. Also, there is no flux gradient that change around the pulleys as the magnetic array is moving around the, and therfor not held back like gravity does on the heavy chain.


Where the magnetic array goes from one polarity to the other, you will have a moving flux gradient, that will have an impact on the stator field, but if the pulleys are kept outside the statormagnet, this gradient is not moving inside a magnetic field while it is going arount the pulleys. Instead, the flux gradient is only crossing the stator field perpendicular to rotation. The moving gradient will attract or repel when entering the field from the top, but the same when it leaves the field at the bottom, with a netto force that cancels out.
The only field gradient we are left with, is the straight parts of the magnet array that has its own torque in the same direction.
The torque that is applied here will force the rotor to turn, just like when you want to loosen or tighten wheel bolts when changing wheels on your car. The torque around the wheel bolts is outside the wheel hub, but without applying brakes, the wheel will turn as you try to tighten or loosen the bolts.
The straight parts of the magnetic arrays is the "tightening wheel bolts" in this case, forcing the rotors to turn. That is the idea. I cannot figure out what stops this from working, but I do not say that this works in real life as I imagine it will ;)


Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2019, 01:59:17 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2019, 08:42:42 PM »
I just ordered 400pcs of these cylindrical magnets.
Magnetized througn length. N50 "China strength" - probably N35 or so.
These are perfect for making a magnetic chain. Just 3D-printing links and make long chains that is stable with low friction.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2019, 12:26:36 PM »
Here is the drawing I use as basis to print out parts for the magnetic chain.

Arrows explains how things work.

Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2019, 02:39:50 PM »
Here is the visual explanation. Look at the chain as it rolls backwards in pos 1 - 3 where the stator field is weakest. then the wave is kept polarized in repulsion mode away from North and attraction towards South until the chain change polarity after 180° rotation (Just like the rotor in an electric motor). The chain is supposed to be arranged as multiple waves around the circuference, but it takes too much time to draw everything. The example of a partial chain is just for simplicity.


Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea hopefully solved
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2019, 08:55:19 PM »
Testing the mechanical concept with 5mm bolts.
The complete build will be LARGE. Looking at this one piece, and I need at least 8 pulleys on both wheels to minimize the twist of chain between the pulleys, and lots of chain. I'm not yet sure if 400 magnets will be enough...



Vidar

 

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