# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: magnetman12003 on May 07, 2019, 02:18:28 AM

Title: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 07, 2019, 02:18:28 AM
Consider 2 rod magnets mounted on a swinging arm. One on each downward side of the arm.  In the pivot center of both arms is a one way bearing set to move only clockwise.
Another arm mounted the same way as above with 2 rod magnets is mounted on the same pivot axle as above but a little under the above arm. The rod magnets on both arms repel each other.

If one arm is manually pushed towards the other arm the other arm will repel away clockwise.
So my question is this: if both arms are strapped together as a group won't the group move clockwise as a single unit all the time??  Mind you in both cases the arms can not move counterclockwise because of the one way way bearings.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: norman6538 on May 07, 2019, 03:19:14 PM
Word of caution. I have always found that there is no push/repel without first a squeeze
to push them together where they can do work.
If we could block or reduce that squeeze work in requirement then we could have some
free energy. So far I have found nothing that truly blocks a magnetic field - diverts yes
but no blocking.

Someone did find a way to easily push two magnets together at their edges so that they will
then twist but then you have a sticky spot to recover from.

Norman
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 07, 2019, 09:30:25 PM
Squeeze one rod magnet against another rod magnet that is unable to move counterclockwise.
Both magnets are unable to move counterclockwise.  Now hold the squeeze by binding both magnets together.  Would the first magnet drag the second magnet with it clockwise since both are unable to move counterclockwise because of the one way bearing action in the pivot arms explained in a previous thread?
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: Floor on May 07, 2019, 10:11:34 PM
1. Without a drawing / diagram I am unable to picture / grasp your concept.

2. What Norman6538  said.

3. https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/

regards
floor
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: norman6538 on May 08, 2019, 03:21:03 AM
Now, I remember. It was Floor that did the twisting.
Norman
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 08, 2019, 11:55:21 PM
This is a photo of what I was talking about in the previous links.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 09, 2019, 09:13:28 PM

This is a photo of what I was talking about in the previous links.

If the two arms are squeezed together and the squeeze is released the top arm will stay put as it can't move counter clockwise.  But if both arms are bound together in a squeezed condition the bottom arm will DRAG the top arm along with it clockwise all the time.  That's what I am working on right now. See previous links.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: gyulasun on May 09, 2019, 11:38:30 PM
... But if both arms are bound together in a squeezed condition the bottom arm will DRAG the top arm along with it clockwise all the time.
...
Hi magnetman,

Unfortunately what you wrote (and I put in bold above) will not happen all the time but only once.

Your Step 1 is okay: you squeeze the top arm clockwise towards bottom arm, repel force develops between the two arms.

When now you let out the arms from the squeeze in Step 2, the bottom arm will move clockwise of course but the top arm remains stopped at the position your left it when you squeezed and released it (this is okay).
The bottom arm however, will be able to move clockwise till it experiences the repel force from the other magnet at the other side of the stationary top arm and bumps and will toss a little on the other magnet fixed to top arm and in return the top magnet on the earlier squeezed top arm side will toss yet a little on the bottom arm again and so on till both arms stop   OR

now your Step 3 would come where you introduced the binding between the two arms and you expect the moving bottom arm will drag top arm with it all around if I understood you correctly.

Unfortunately, in this bound_together situation both arms will stop soon: in the first moment just after you released the squeeze, the bottom arm will give a strong pull forth to the top arm and they both will move together clockwise for a certain time and they will both stop.  Why stop?
Because the repel force exists between the two arms only (it is like a bended bow) and there is no any tangential force remaining from the shaft point of view.  The first initial pull force gradually dies out as they both move together clockwise.
The tangential force that caused the clockwise move existed only for the moment the strong pull force of the bottom arm exerted on the top arm and this force dragged both arms clockwise till friction and small air drag stop the movement.
OF course, the repel forces will still exist between the two bound_together arms.
You would need to supply again a squeezing force for the top arm to initiate another movement.

Gyula
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 10, 2019, 10:58:39 PM
What if a non ferrous spring was placed between both arms that would allow the bottom arm to rotate clockwise while the top arm waited in place until the spring stretched out.  Then the top arm would follow the bottom arm once more until it got close (squeezed)  and the whole procedure would start over again? The squeeze would be repetitive then.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: gyulasun on May 11, 2019, 12:19:21 AM
A spring can store and release energy of course but it needs input energy first. Once the spring has used up its stored energy you would need to 'recharge' it, it would again need an 'input' force.
In your setup however, the 'recharge' force can only come from the repel force between the magnets on the two arms (after an initial start-up) because there is no other force available to 'recharge' the spring.
The spring may postpone the full stop time, that is what I think it would do and then the arms would stop moving.

Have you managed to build a setup to study the behaviour? or you may wait for the one way bearings.

Gyula
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 11, 2019, 07:58:52 PM
Thanks Gyula for your input on this.  I already installed the one way bearings and as you stated without
a squeeze the setup stops rotating.   I now know how to apply the squeeze all the time using gravity.
Will post later my results.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 12, 2019, 08:22:55 PM
Thanks Gyula for your input on this.  I already installed the one way bearings and as you stated without
a squeeze the setup stops rotating.   I now know how to apply the squeeze all the time using gravity.
Will post this later.

Picture a HEAVY rod magnet coming in at a 45 degree from the top side of a arm and DIRECTED right at
A lower arm magnet that is mounted VERTICALY.  Both magnets now repel each other ALL THE TIME.
Both magnet are inside PVC  pipe mount tubes which allow them to be removed if needed.
A one way bearing is mounted on the top arm to keep the 45 degree rod magnet from being repeled counterclockwise. The bottom arm rod magnet must move clockwise and if its linked to the top rod magnet
It may drag it with it continuouslyl?????

I am waiting now for more parts on my build.
Tom
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: gyulasun on May 12, 2019, 11:44:53 PM
> Picture a HEAVY rod magnet coming in at a 45 degree from the top side of a arm and DIRECTED right at
> A lower arm magnet that is mounted VERTICALY.  Both magnets now repel each other ALL THE TIME.
> Both magnet are inside PVC  pipe mount tubes which allow them to be removed if needed.
> A one way bearing is mounted on the top arm to keep the 45 degree rod magnet from being repeled counterclockwise.
> The bottom arm rod magnet must move clockwise and if its linked to the top rod magnet> It may drag it with it continuouslyl? ??? ?

> I am waiting now for more parts on my build.
> Tom "

Hi Tom,

Please try to make a drawing by hand again because it would clear any misunderstand that may come from your description.

Thanks
Gyula
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 14, 2019, 12:39:12 AM
Here is a photo of what I was talking about.  Might need resized by someone?
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: Thaelin on May 14, 2019, 04:26:14 AM
seems that I saw a  YT vid of this but for the life of me, cant find it. Me just see
things or was it there?

thay

Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: gyulasun on May 14, 2019, 03:16:49 PM
Here is a photo of what I was talking about.  Might need resized by someone?
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the picture. You show an interesting setup and I think you hope that the almost floating heavy top magnets will insure the tangential force needed for the arms to move clockwise.

Well I think that the two arms will receive a one time pushing force in the moment you drop the two magnets into the tilted PVC pipes and the arms will move together for a certain time till friction stops them.
It is okay that the two top magnets would continually repel the bottom magnets but this force will be a resting, static force.  The comparison to a bended bow is still valid like in your first set up.

Of course I may be wrong and if you are convinced this setup would operate continuously, then only a replication can show reality.

Gyula
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 14, 2019, 11:49:39 PM
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the picture. You show an interesting setup and I think you hope that the almost floating heavy top magnets will insure the tangential force needed for the arms to move clockwise.

Well I think that the two arms will receive a one time pushing force in the moment you drop the two magnets into the tilted PVC pipes and the arms will move together for a certain time till friction stops them.
It is okay that the two top magnets would continually repel the bottom magnets but this force will be a resting, static force.  The comparison to a bended bow is still valid like in your first set up.

I have already started the build and it should be quite heavy when completed.  Plan to use 4 heavy rod magnets at 45 degree on top arms and 4 vertical heavy rod magnets on the bottom arms.   All my work is posted as open source information so anyone interested can replicate it.  I am using ceramic skate bearings for the wheels supporting
my cylinder and other bearings that have very little friction.  I will show you a side photo of where I am at presently
I have the outside of the drum covered in V shaped bearing balls that I had another idea for prior to this.
I am waiting on a longer 8 mm center shaft now.  Tom

Of course I may be wrong and if you are convinced this setup would operate continuously, then only a replication can show reality.

Gyula
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: skywatcher on May 15, 2019, 12:06:31 AM
It's always the same error in reasoning.   ::)
Any construction involving only permanent magnets and other passive components will only move until the equilibrium of forces is reached, and then it will stop.
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 15, 2019, 12:29:52 AM
It's always the same error in reasoning.   ::)
Any construction involving only permanent magnets and other passive components will only move until the equilibrium of forces is reached, and then it will stop.
[/quote

Worth trying anyhow with four heavy magnets free to bear down at 45 degrees on lower magnets.
Something has to move.  Anyways here is a photo showing the four magnets I will put into 45 degree pipes where they will be free to slide.  Might even try 22.5 degree also.  I am using a top circular plate instead of arm which makes things easier.  My other 4 magnets are secured inside the cylinder.   Tom
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 15, 2019, 11:59:29 PM
It's always the same error in reasoning.
Any construction involving only permanent magnets and other passive components will only move until the equilibrium of forces is reached, and then it will stop.
[/quote

Worth trying anyhow with four heavy magnets free to bear down at 45 degrees on lower magnets.
Something has to move.  Anyways here is a photo showing the four magnets I will put into 45 degree pipes where they will be free to slide.  Might even try 22.5 degree also.  I am using a top circular plate instead of arm which makes things easier.  My other 4 magnets are secured inside the cylinder.   Tom
Title: Re: Four rod magnets and two one way bearings = free energy???
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 16, 2019, 05:57:44 PM
It's always the same error in reasoning.
Any construction involving only permanent magnets and other passive components will only move until the equilibrium of forces is reached, and then it will stop.
[/quote

Worth trying anyhow with four heavy magnets free to bear down at 45 degrees on lower magnets.
Something has to move.  Anyways here is a photo showing the four magnets I will put into 45 degree pipes where they will be free to slide.  Might even try 22.5 degree also.  I am using a top circular plate instead of arm which makes things easier.  My other 4 magnets are secured inside the cylinder.   Tom

I was giving thought about using a thin gum rubber disk under the disk that has the 45 degree magnet pipes mounted on.  That way the 45 degree magnet disk won't be able to slip around on top of the 4 vertical magnets under it because of the weight of the 45 degree magnets pressing down.
So now the the need of any link between the top 45 degree magnet disk and the cylinder the vertical magnets are secured inside is not needed.   Tom