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Author Topic: Open Source Vs. Patenting  (Read 141677 times)

Offline Joe Kelley

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2008, 05:39:25 PM »
+++++++++++
But it is now obvious that you are over compensating for what you don't have as well.
+++++++++++

Anyone,

When can someone clinically be diagnoses as a sociopath? I?ve read more than one source whereby the data suggests the pathology includes a predisposition for insulting other people as if the sociopath were incapable of a reasonable thought.

Take the above, for example. A vague and ambiguous question was asked. The question being asked is perfectly reasonable for, as many people know, there are few ways to gain accurate answers other than to ask questions; however the question asked was too general and not specific enough to allow for an accurate answer.

Here is the vague question:

+++++++++
What protection is there for open sourcing?
+++++++++

Perhaps the person asking the question already has a few possible answers in mind or perhaps the person asking the question has no possible answer in mind. The person to whom the question was asked (me) has no clue as to what the answer to the question could be because the question is too vague.

What is open sourcing being protected from?

If I knew what open sourcing was being protected from I could conceive of an answer to the question asked.

Example 1:

What protection is there for open sourcing from attacks to human connectivity?

That is an answerable question.

Example 2:

What protection is there for open sourcing from attacks by large meteors contacting the earth?

Example 3:

What protection is there for open sourcing from attacks by human diseases created and patented by the federal government where the cure is also patented by the federal government and the cure is produced into a state of scarcity so as to command the highest possible price for the cure to the pathological disease business.

Example 4:

What protection is there for open sourcing from attacks by alien abductor who snatch up all the believers in The Rapture?

Example 5:

What protection is there for open sourcing from attacks by forum trolls who do nothing but insult other forum members as a default demonic procedure?

If no one can see the problems associated with vague questions, then no one can.

Please consider abandoning the pathology.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2008, 05:39:25 PM »

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2008, 05:41:23 PM »
++++++++
Bear in mind as a proponent of a new "law", the burden is on you to support it, not on anyone else to disprove it.
++++++++

utilitarian,

You obviously misunderstand my viewpoint. Joe?s Law is merely a way of describing physical and psychological reality. The relationship is what it is, I merely describe it.

If you, I, or anyone thinks that my description is inaccurate the fact that the relationship exists doesn?t change. I see no need to support or disprove the relationship described by Joe?s Law. It exists even if I don?t see it; conversely it won?t vanish if I ignore it.


You are clearly a thinking, intelligent person, but discussions with you are quickly made difficult, for some reason.  I have a hard time putting my finger on it, but you tend to split hairs on tangential issues and so a conversation with you can quickly get derailed.  And, because you are so verbose, it is subsequently easy to just get loss in a mess of text.  I think maybe you would do better just writing a book or a long blog.

If I had more time, I would try to figure out more of where you are going, but I have been working days and nights lately, so I try to limit myself to threads where I can get to the point relatively quickly.

But good luck to you and I hope you get better soon from your many ailments.

Offline Joe Kelley

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2008, 06:37:14 PM »
utilitarian,

Thanks.

I am adding the following to this discussion on patent vs open source:

Here are three links that can help illustrate Joe's Law.

http://www.wavepartner.eu/page_1219330357093.html

That first link is easy to understand for someone like me who has worked 25 years in the construction industry as a mechanic, equipment operator, plant operator, plant repairman, etc.

The idea is sound. That method of producing electric power is extremely profitable at today?s prices of electricity.

Joe?s Law defined again:

Power produced into a state of oversupply will reduce the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the costs of production.

Now add the following link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6157958993884349118&q=joseph+newman

I don?t know if that thing actually works. I have to look into that thing with more intensity. The idea is to desalinate water and thereby make fresh water out of salt water.

So the two links now show a very profitable way to use the ocean waves to generate electricity at very low costs per kilowatt/hour, combined with, a machine that uses very little electricity to pump water up and extract salt from the water.

Now look at this link:

http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/SeaEnergy.htm

I?ve just found these links so more work on validity is needed; however the principles involved are already being proven in practice by many people so I?m merely the messenger in this data stream.

Combining all three links will combine three powerful new industries to help link the ocean based communities with other communities such as the place where I live in the Mojave Desert.

Anywhere on the Planet where power is needed, clean water is needed, and food is needed, these three powerful links empower people.

The last link is to link these links to the people who can make more power in their thinking process.

Power produced into a state of oversupply (not scarcity) will decrease the price of power (not increase it) while purchasing power increases (not decreases) because power reduces the costs of production, and therefore reduces (not increases) the price of everything made with power (which is everything).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2008, 06:37:14 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Joe Kelley

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2008, 07:51:25 PM »
Anyone,

Here is the cost/benefit for the wave power generator (over-unity):

http://www.wavepartner.eu/page_1219330357093.html

 
Quote
I have chosen to use cheap materials only, in this demonstration, because the need to bring down production costs, and make it possible to build this type of wave generation device, any where in the world, and with local materials, as car parts etc, which doesn't needs to be imported. Other materials could of course be used, and the schematics for its design of course, be different. Simple is better, it is said, and fewer parts, and bearings, will bring lower cost of building, and also repair.

We can here see energy content in waves, The numbers means kW per hour, and meters of wave. South America, 97 kW per meter of wave, for example, that means, a Wavereaper? device, which is 100 meters broad, would generate 9.7 mw, cost would be around 1200 000 Dollar, for that device. However, the revenue would be over 400 000 dollars monthly with current energy price.


Here is another link:
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/423.html

Offline infringer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #139 on: September 07, 2008, 03:09:02 AM »
Open Source is the only way to release energy freedom..

Without an open source and easily reproduceable means of energy generation there will be no "Free Energy"...

Plain and simple unless someone releases to the public the full disclousure on how to reproduce an FE device there will be none.

Greed will allow people to be silenced, Greed will put stops to all avenues of FE and if the inventor is greedy and will not release
via an open source channel, the device will ever remain nothing more then that of talk or vaporware.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #139 on: September 07, 2008, 03:09:02 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #140 on: September 07, 2008, 03:25:16 AM »
@infringer

 You are correct if that inventor holds out trying to get the best deal he can. But how can you protect your interest by open sourcing?

 I have said this time and time again. Once the inventor is in patent pending. The inventor of FE should show it openly so the self builders can build there own causing even more proof of the FE device and then it will no longer be able to be hidden. Plus the inventor will have their credit, and will be able to deal, and deal they should. I don't want to be stuck manufacturing these devices when I can spend the rest of my life trying to improve it and build better designs as well. Let those who have all the equipment start building the devices for those who won't or can't build their own.

Offline infringer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2008, 04:56:10 AM »
You protect your inventions that do not work but I should tell you a story long in the running...

The story of the poor mans patent...

This is what you do sir you first send your idea in a tamper proof envelope to yourself in the mail be sure it is post marked... And also sign for it.

Do not I repeat do not open this as you will need it sealed tamper proof and sent to you....

If you take this evidence to court I say you have an 80% chance that you will win your lawsuit and claim the rights to the patent.

This is what I like to consider a poor mans patent but I was told this worked for a few people through the years.

Take extra steps as well if you feel nessacary have it notorized on the back of the envolope that it was sealed on a certain date.

Surley you will win without a doubt then get you an attorney that does not get payed unless they win.

I am suprised you are not aware of the many ways to have solid evidence of the date of your invention and how to prove that it was in fact stolen...

Not to mention the forum dont lie about the date at which you submit your invention to the forum yet another form of proof and I gaurentee stephan would
provide all proof required if your invention did amount to something.

Problem is that monitary support for something now adays you would have tons of cash pouring in if you simply asked for donations not to mention if proven
I believe there is the xprize the prize here and other things like it...

Sheesh if you came up with something you think it would go unnoticed?

The kid who hacked the friggin iphone was offered all kinds of cash and a car and a job high paying...

Think Openly Uncle Scrooge pondering the amount of pennies you will lose is not going to do nothing other then hold you back.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2008, 04:56:10 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline utilitarian

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2008, 04:59:12 AM »
You protect your inventions that do not work but I should tell you a story long in the running...

The story of the poor mans patent...

This is what you do sir you first send your idea in a tamper proof envelope to yourself in the mail be sure it is post marked... And also sign for it.

Do not I repeat do not open this as you will need it sealed tamper proof and sent to you....

If you take this evidence to court I say you have an 80% chance that you will win your lawsuit and claim the rights to the patent.

This is what I like to consider a poor mans patent but I was told this worked for a few people through the years.

Take extra steps as well if you feel nessacary have it notorized on the back of the envolope that it was sealed on a certain date.

Surley you will win without a doubt then get you an attorney that does not get payed unless they win.

This is complete idiocy.  The sealed envelope offers no protection whatsoever.

Offline infringer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2008, 05:08:48 AM »
How do you figure? You tamper proof your envolope seal it and get the envolope notarized on back that it was sealed  tamper proof then send it to yourself and do not open it you then have a date, and untampered evidence

A patent offers no protection either... If you wanna get technical reproductions are always a problem in other countries and such.

Sorry to say but it is true a slight alteration to the device makes your device crapp and theres better and gives them the ability to make a new patent...

And I will tell you yes it does offer protection providing the legal system serves justice which there is a very great chance it would.

AB Hammer is cool shit man dont get me wrong I like the dood.

But I will tell you if you publish a book with the library of congress or whatever for 75bux it should also provide a decent amount of protection as well...

The truth is the more documented proof you have of your invention the better.

Everything will provide evidence beyond circumstatial or he said she said is a forum of proof that you did infact come up with this invention ... Dates do matter as well.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2008, 05:08:48 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2008, 05:18:55 AM »
@infringer

 What you said about the poor mans patent hasn't been any good for years. As a song writer it was common to do this to help support the filed copy wright,  but it is so easy to fraud it became useless. The funny thing is, the fraudsters have cause this protection to be no good any more, and it seems like the court experts where the only fraudsters on this method. IMO (can we say big brother strikes again?)

 As for open sourcing, you are missing that it only takes a little change to get a new patent and you can't do anything about it. The patent you fill out has to be worded correctly or it can still be a waste. The deck is stacked against us that are not rich, so we have to draw the correct cards and you can still win.

Offline infringer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »
Yes it is stacked against the poor thats when you get out your trick deck...

Pay 75bux and copywright a book with the full details in it including possible spin offs ...

Deny the proof of the library of congress I highly doubt that will happen.

Yes it was song writers that did the envolope thing that is correct.

But lets see a fraud with the library of congress then show me one.

A patent will be circumvented just as easily... With a modification.

-infringer-

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2008, 05:59:33 AM »
Yes it is stacked against the poor thats when you get out your trick deck...

Pay 75bux and copywright a book with the full details in it including possible spin offs ...

Deny the proof of the library of congress I highly doubt that will happen.

Yes it was song writers that did the envolope thing that is correct.

But lets see a fraud with the library of congress then show me one.

A patent will be circumvented just as easily... With a modification.

-infringer-

I will admit I like the book idea, So I write up everything I can think of, and myself being a blacksmith I will have to write it in a teaching form and how to do it step by step. The whys and why nots of what can do to make a gravity wheel work, and why most do not. I will start and then I will need someone of physic skill to help and someone who can help make since for everyone.

Offline utilitarian

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2008, 07:16:57 PM »
Yes it is stacked against the poor thats when you get out your trick deck...

Pay 75bux and copywright a book with the full details in it including possible spin offs ...

Deny the proof of the library of congress I highly doubt that will happen.

Yes it was song writers that did the envolope thing that is correct.

But lets see a fraud with the library of congress then show me one.

A patent will be circumvented just as easily... With a modification.

-infringer-

You confuse copyright with patent.  A sealed envelope may offer some protection in a copyright case, but not with a patent.  With inventions, the only thing that will protect you is a patent.  And a patent is more than just you coming up with the idea and writing it down.  A patent examiner has to review it for originality, non-obviousness, and other things.  Whether or not you agree with the patent process, it is all you have to protect you.  If you do not bother to go through with it and pay the price of a patent as far as time and money, then you pass up all protection for your invention.

And yes, many patents can be circumvented, but many cannot.  Many patents are worthless, but some are worth quite a bit.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #148 on: September 08, 2008, 05:04:54 AM »
You confuse copyright with patent.  A sealed envelope may offer some protection in a copyright case, but not with a patent.  With inventions, the only thing that will protect you is a patent.  And a patent is more than just you coming up with the idea and writing it down.  A patent examiner has to review it for originality, non-obviousness, and other things.  Whether or not you agree with the patent process, it is all you have to protect you.  If you do not bother to go through with it and pay the price of a patent as far as time and money, then you pass up all protection for your invention.

And yes, many patents can be circumvented, but many cannot.  Many patents are worthless, but some are worth quite a bit.

The danger by going the patent route to the inventor is, if someone in the dept. of defense, NASA, or dept. of energy etc. decides to classify your invention because you applied for a patent;  then the government can control your invention and suppress it or just use it for themselves.  This would deny the invention from those that they are supposed to serve, the people.  Also all the money and time and effort you have put into getting a patent and the invention are down the drain.  You will not know if the gov. will decide to classify your invention until after you apply for a patent.  The reason is, the inventor is asking for a government benefit, unknowingly making the government a partner in your invention for special protection.  So they have the view that they can then suppress it if they decide they want to.  If you don't apply for a patent, they have no legal ability to interfere, because they are not owners or co-owners of the device.  This is the corruption in the system that was intended to protect the country, but has hindered it instead.

If the government would abolish the clause that allows them to classify a device, a patent would return to the intended purpose, to protect the inventor and his device.  It would make sense for them to do this for now, at least for energy devices.  It would allow sales tax to occur in their country instead of having to import the device that started within your own country and loose the future sales and the benefit from enhanced commerce.

Offline Thedane

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Re: Open Source Vs. Patenting
« Reply #149 on: September 14, 2008, 04:26:20 PM »
Hi everybody,

The choice is clear to me: Open Source / Free information for everybody.

If you (have) develop(ed) a Free Energy machine and you release the information to the public, you're most likely to win a Nobel price as current physics say you cannot make such a device.
By posting the plans/information online - and sending a copy of it to e.g. google's G-mail - It should be easy to document who first released a working FE device to the public.
Don't forget to document the device on video and send a copy of it to your "local" newsmedia - They'll love having such a scoop, and you're almost guaranteed instant fame  ;D

Have a great day!

 

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