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Author Topic: Ambient cycle  (Read 14093 times)

Offline lancaIV

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Ambient cycle
« on: December 17, 2006, 02:01:31 AM »
Heat pump : average C.O.P. 3
+ www.smithenviro.com/energy/articmaster.html
+ http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_347191740.html
 
= C.O.P. 6 ??'

Panel heat pump : average C.O.P. 4,5
+ above supply

= C.O.P. 10 ??

Panel heat pump + Li Yng Tyan multiple motor lever concept :

= C.O.P. 50 ??

McMurtry friction heater + Li Yng Tyan MMLC :

= C.O.P. ? 100 ??

Closing the cycle : the space/area - partially  envelloped with the
Dr. Helmut Reichelt thermovoltaic-room temperature-cell.
(= inverse use of the   www.moletherm.com  cell function)
S
  dL

p.s.: more info about panel heat pumps:
       Jacques Bernier,many different thermo-dynamic inventions
       f.e. Trademark:"AXERGIE",sold to a portuguese company.
       This is a commercial available product !

       Rene Valkenburg ,panel heat pump,DE3444610

       about the MMLC:
       Li Yng Tyan,Taiwan US5463914,DE4402337

       McMurtry,hydraulic friction heater,WO1987007000
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 04:48:33 AM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Ambient cycle
« on: December 17, 2006, 02:01:31 AM »

Offline stevewal2

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 08:52:21 PM »
Hi lanca,
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Heat pumps in general use have a cop of between 2 and 6 . So it seems logical to use them as a basis to remove heat from the air ground or water, and convert it into electricity. This is the most abundant source of energy on the planet, and when used gets converted straight back to heat. Talk about good for the environment! Theres so many different heat pumps and so many generators that use heat in one form or another. So why not tweek the whole thing to creat a highly efficient self running combined heat pump and electricity generator.

I'm definately with you on this one. I've drawn a basic diagram of the most simple self running generator using refrgerent heated by the atmosphere then compressed into vapour which is then used to drive a generator and continue the whole process. No overunity, just recycling heat.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/stevewal2/pump_generator.gif)


I know there's a few large scale similar generators in the works, but is there any reason that every household could not have had something like this 50 years ago?

Cheers,
Steve.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 11:27:16 PM »
Nice animation,ARTIST !
I recommend the Cosby invention as heat engine cause
these proclamations :
only 80 degrees Fahrenheit temperature difference need
and now,after more than 40 years of R&D,he speaks of
100% conversion efficiency,what has to be approved !

The conversion mechanical to electric force :
    SUXE.co.uk (overunity.com-member)
or  Geminielectricmotor.com

If they will be too exspensive :
using their principle,but free and legal:

Kango IIDA  Motor/Generator
JP10341560       !!! filling date :1987 !!!
WO2004057740 (here the inventor wrote about a closed-loop !)

Sincerely
            de Lanca

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 11:27:16 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline celso

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 12:09:43 PM »
Does any one have any information about Axergie sistems?
Any contact?
If not any other contact for the same type of material, Thermodinamic colectors.

Offline tagor

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 05:01:54 PM »
Does any one have any information about Axergie sistems?
Any contact?
If not any other contact for the same type of material, Thermodinamic colectors.

is this ?

<<Exergia's New Energy Shop
Sophisticated demonstration models of alternative energy technologies for universities, schools and interested individuals: Stirling Engines and steam engines, fuel cells, photovoltaic objects, toys and more! Discover extraordinary ideas in energy related devices: Educational devices inspired by old and new concepts to demonstrate the physical principles of conventional and alternative energy conversion.
New Products>>
the link is http://www.newenergyshop.com/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 05:01:54 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline celso

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 06:24:41 PM »
No!

Axergie is the developer of a product called as a thermodynamic solar colector.
I would like to get more information about it?
Who is seling or representing?

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 08:42:38 PM »
Hello,
www.larbombas.pt
they bought the "Axergie"-concept !

Tschau
          dL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 08:42:38 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 12:18:24 PM »
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberische_Halbinsel

                                                 surface                               583,254 km²



1/100000 of the area at the southern tip is the British overseas territory Gibraltar






But I only take 1sqkm from the Peninsula,1/583 254 :


1 sqKm = 100 ha = 1000 mtr.x 1000 mtr. = 1 000 000 sqm




1 000 000 sqm / 20 sqm = 50 000 times x 100 KW generator installation
 https://web.archive.org/web/20110817174850if_/http://www.airpower.co.il/PRODUCTS.htm


50 000 x 100 KW x 8766 hours x 0,9 ( improved efficiency,original 0,66 factor) = 4,5 GW x 8766 hours = 39 447 GW per annum

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1841544A2








1 sqKm we can buy for 500 000 Euros ( 0,5 Euro/sqm) ,let us divide the investment / 10 years and giving 10% capital rent


                                             = 75 000 Euros per annum = ( 500 000 x 0,5  x 0,1 ) + 50 000




75 000 Euros / 39 447 GWh     or     75 000 Euros/ 39 447 000 MWh       or       75 000 Euros/ 39 447 000 000 KWh


= 7 500 000 Euro-cents/ 39 447 000 000 KWh = 7,5 Euro-cents/39 447 KW


= 0,0002 Euro-cent/KWh land costs part per KWh electricity use/selling !


when 2,5 Euro-cents/KWh the wind-energy grid input less than = 1/10 000 the land costs


 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.roedl.de/themen/fokus-public-sector/2021-april/windkraft-eeg-2021


 However, this always depends on the individual project and in particular (and despite the correction factor provided in the EEG) on the wind speed. For example,
with a wind yield of 13 million kWh per wind turbine and year, a value of 6 ct / kWh to be applied and a lease share of 5 percent of the proceeds, the lease payment would be 39,000 euros per wind turbine and year .


[ Vorsaetzliche Fehlkalkulation faellt wohl unter : "Hoehere Gewalt"  ;D
 (Vorsicht : Anwaltskanzleien/Geschaeftsfuehrerhaftung) 8)   Handeln,(zu-)wider besseren Wissens !" ]

From 10-5 % land lease costs 2014 per KWh to 1/10 000 = 0,01 % land lease costs ! 2025 !

                 13 million KWh x 0,0002 Euro-cent/KWh = 2600 Euro-cents or 26 Euros


                 the lease payment would be (ancient :39,000 euros) now : 26 euros per wind turbine and year .

                                                                  100( ;) 0) times less !







https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.lwk-niedersachsen.de/index.cfm/portal/57/nav/1251/article/23441.html


" ...... in addition to a standard minimum 8)  lease of around 1,500 - 3,000 € / ha, depending on the location - is made dependent on the electricity yield.   ...... "

the standart minimum lease sum per annum we will decrease in Europe to 100 Euros/ha ( or 10 000 sqm)




                             39 447 000 000 KWh / 1 000 000 sqm = 39 447 KWh/sqm and annum
 
                             https://web.archive.org/web/20110817174850if_/http://www.airpower.co.il/PRODUCTS.htm
                                                              100 KW/20 sqm = 5 KW/sqm ( x 8766 or 24/365)



With increasing CO2 certification price the rural land for Biofuels plants growth use becomes unattractive + fallow aerea =


                                               20 % from rural land in (E.U.)Europe related


                    Europäische Union/Fläche                                              4.476.000 km²


http://www.habiter-autrement.org/12.energies/16_ener.htm  + www.oeko-energie.de  intelligent household + www.mtbest.net


preview 2050 : 3000 KWh electricity use per annum per private household (by given low-e- Standardization !)

                      100%   space + water heating + light,appliances,cooking electric consume included, e-car energy autonomous




                      3000 KWh / 39 447 KWh/sqm = less than 0,1 sqm per household energy generator area need


                                                                     alternatively store/placement : on house tect or in the cave




2050 low-e E.U.  society calculation :


 [200 Mio- private households ( a 2,5 capita) x 3000 KWh p.a. electricity consume]/39 447 KWh/sqm


                        15 200 000 sqm or


                        15,2 sqKm  airpower generator area / 4.476.000 km² =       


                                         
                                                1/300 000 E.U. land area need



                                            Handeln,(zu-)wider besseren Wissens !




https://contest.techbriefs.com/2010/entries/sustainable-technologies/527  and airpower technology compared ! ;)


AirWatt. It can produce much more electrical power per unit area of land than solar, wind, or hydro power plants. Whereas solar works only during sunlight hours, the AirWatt power plant can usually run 24 hours per day in appropriate locations. AirWatt plants use atmospheric air as the heat source and evaporating water as the heat sink. The warm air is used to boil a refrigerant, which turns a turbine, and the water evaporation condenses the refrigerant.Our computer simulations of the thermodynamics and aerodynamics have already demonstrated that AirWatt functions well.




Now the target : industrial mass production


an industrial price/Kg example   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Kwid


 $3,884. / [Curb weight 775 kg (1,709 lb) =     5 US$ per Kg selling price


https://web.archive.org/web/20110817174850if_/http://www.airpower.co.il/PRODUCTS.htm


100 KW generator assuming 5000 Euros "pure" production costs / 200 Kg weight from listed "900 Kg"


25  KW motor       assuming 1250 Euros "pure" production costs/    50 Kg


so an 100 KW airpower generator -ready to use/fob factory -  can be in the 15.-20.000 Euros selling price range (instead 95.000 US$)


                                                    150 - 200 Euros/KW installation


( 50 000 units a sqKm) x 15,2 sqKm =    760 000 units a 15.-20.000 Euros/unit   ,totally investment near 15 billions Euros

                                                                                                                      2021-2050 : 0,5 billion per year



15,2 sqKm land costs :                          7,6 mio Euros





                                  1 Euro-cent/KWh electricity generation possible ,CO2-free





                                                  Related windforce/-conversion calculation error/-s:


  https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/infraschall-aus-windkraft-ueberschaetzt-gruene-wollen-konsequenzen,SWYJwLd

                             ::)               Study exaggerates infrasound more than 1,000 times         ::)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 03:19:39 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2021, 12:18:52 PM »
Calculating with real world - 2021 view- numbers :

the Vale-Autonomous House- numbers :



1975 GB average 82 sqm space heating consume 12 900 KWh
When we look for the average house living area in GB we see over the last 70 years no great change :
        70-80 sqm average !



Assuming 70% average boiler/heater efficiency (1970-1975 ! : coal,oil,wood)

12 900 KWh x 0,7 = +- 9 000 KWh  ( attention : the now 18°-21°C in-house temperature demanded by law)



2021 low-e construction minimum standard : 20 Wp/sqm ~ 20 x 82 sqm x 1,5 ( heat season factor) = 2460 KWh


The Vale hot water energy consume 1900 KWh


But taking the no/low insulation space heating  9 000 KWh + 1 900 KWh warmwater heat energy :dividing with C.O.P. 6 heat pump = 10 900 KWh/6 = 1820 KWh electric

From Vale 1 400 KWh light,appliances,cooking electric consume and modern www.oeko-energie.de " intelligent household" 3 KWh per day electric consume (3 KWh x 365= 1100 KWh)

we get in total : 1820 KWh + 1100 KWh = 2920 KWh electricity consume per annum !

I calculate with 3000 KWh as average consume !



-----------------------------------------------------------------
1 Euro-cent per KWh electric generation :

in the airpower.co.il page is written : 3,4 US$-cents per KWh generation costs



by given condition : 95 000 US$/100 KW investment and 66% (3/1) conversion efficiency

20 000 €/100 KW or 24 000 US$/100 KW gives : (24 000/95 000) x 3,4 US$-cents = 0,253 x 3,4 US$-cents =
                near 1 Euro-cent per KWh electricity generation

               ( not including technical 0,66 to 0,9 improvement factor,included service/maintenance costs per KWh )

Similar aveurope.net development :
 energy converter ,1 Euro-cent/KWh generation calculation ,prototype 375 €/KW costs

Prototyping is ever several times/by small parts thousands times (R&D) more expensive than later mass production !




Such energy converter will be the base for 1 Euro-cent/KWh generation price - 1 Euro-cent/KWh subsidy =
0 €/KWh electricity for CO2-from ambiental air-scrubber



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 15,2 sqKm  airpower generator area / 4.476.000 km² =       
                         
                                                1/300 000 E.U. land area need

15,2 sqkm x 0,6 more efficient electric generator = under 10 sqKm

5 KW power per sqm,first stage

by this constructive condition ? :
https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_main_large/public/carbon_16x9.jpg?itok=O5kHEGWT

10 KW power = 2 stages,15 KW power = 3 stages ,20 KW power = 4 stages  per sqm

       
                    physical:  less than   1/1 000 000 E.U. land area need


                                    Or off-shore sea-side,on pontons !






An E.U.-coutry example :


without "lower e-" thinking consume



https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.naturschutz-energiewende.de/aktuelles/flaechenverfuegbarkeit-fuer-die-energiewende/






According to the study, electricity consumption will rise to more than [/font][/size]1,000 terawatt hours in 2050, for which an installed capacity of up to 500 gigawatts of wind power and photovoltaic power would be required - about five to seven times what is already available today.


1000 TeraWatt hours/8766 hours = 114 GigaWatt installation = 114 000 MegaWatt 0r 114 000 000 KiloWatt


equates 1,14 Mio units 100 KW(5 KW/sqm) installations a 20 sqm ground area =  22,8 sqKm


Table 2 . Designated and free areas for the use of wind energy at the federal level (regional planning + land-use planning level)

Germany

Area (km²)                               357.385
Designated wind area (km²)          3.131
Share of land area (%)                  0.9%


End of 2017 free area (km²)          1,325
Share of free wind areas (%)         42.3%




                                  3.131 sqKm / 22,8 sqKm = 100 times the 2050 100 TeraWatt-hours wind generator area need


                                  or by given free land =  Share of land area (%)   0.9%

                                  100 x 100 TeraWatt-hours = 10 PetaWatt-hours generation potential
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 04:28:25 PM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2021, 12:18:52 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2021, 12:03:56 PM »
Calculation,as example, for Germany ( by given E.U.-Standart-ization 2050 ) average electricity consume assumption per household 2050 :


average 1600 KWh electricity ( to heatpump,"friction- or induction- or IR-" heater with all minimum C.O.P. greater 5)for space/water heating and up to 1400 KWh for appliances,light,cooking = 3000 KWh per year

Demand : since 2020 in E.U. area  for new building construction (>50 sqm) energy standart : 20 Wp/sqm space heat max.  !




35 000 000 private households a 3000 KWh = 105.000.000.000 KWh per annum total or 105 TWh

9x Overestimated study number :

According to the study, electricity consumption will rise to more than 1,000 terawatt hours in 2050, for which an installed capacity of up to 500 gigawatts of wind power and photovoltaic power would be required - about five to seven times what is already available today.



105.000.000.000 KWh/39.447 KWh per sqm = 2,67 sqKm energy parc about   " Designated wind area (km²)  3131 "


less than 1/1000 from 0,9% of     357.385 sqKm  for wind generator denominated land !



prime rate credit ( 1.Rang)/sub-prime rate credit (2.Rang) / junk credit (Rang-los) : average 90% value discount


https://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empresas/banca---financas/detalhe/venda-do-credito-malparado-do-novo-banco-deve-ter-desconto-de-90



Rural land as wind-conversion /photo-voltaic  area  :


                              U.S.A. 1 US$/sqm ( the buy ? cash or by uncovered credit ?! )

https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/12-best-farml-bargains_5-ar42186
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre#:~:text=10%20External%20links-,Description,hectares)%20(see%20below). 1 acre = 4047 sqm


In Germany rural land for less than 1 Euro/sqm available     : https://www.immopool.de/  Land-/Forstwirtschaft

For Europe rural ground price :
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.agrarheute.com/management/finanzen/bodenpreise-europa-hektar-fuer-bauern-teuersten-580412%23:~:text%3DBodenpreise%253A%2520Das%2520kostet%2520der%2520Hektar%2520Ackerland%2520die%2520Bauern%2520in%2520Europa,-%25C2%25A9%2520stock.adobe%26text%3DDie%2520Bodenpreise%2520in%2520der%2520EU,Euro%2520in%2520einigen%2520deutschen%2520Regionen.%26text%3DDeutschland%2520geh%25C3%25B6rt%2520zusammen%2520mit%2520Italien,L%25C3%25A4ndern%2520mit%2520den%2520teuersten%2520Ackerb%25C3%25B6den.

https://b5wrzpukp4ach5phnw35orfbri-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-www-agrarheute-com.translate.goog/media/styles/lightbox/public/2021-04/kaufpreise_ackerland_europa.png

France 643.801 km²  6000 Euros/ha + Spain 505.990 km²   13 000 Euros/ha = average 1 Euro/sqm  ;)

net income France/Spain https://www.laenderdaten.info/durchschnittseinkommen.php


habitants density France/Spain https://www.laenderdaten.info/bevoelkerungsdichte.php


and because these "facts" the rural land in France  is 1/2 times cheaper than in Spain  ::)   ! LOGIC ! Price : cash or uncovered credit ?

Spain rural land  is ,by France economic numbers, 100% overprized ! Minimum price 50% decrease preview !

Germany rural land is,by France economic numbers, 500 % overprized ! Minimum price 80% decrease preview !







We can assume ,less "windfall profitable subsidary"( in Germany EEG), that the E.U. rural land price in average falls back to < 1 Euro/sqm !


one negative factor : the overpriced grid-fee gains :


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.windkraft-journal.de/tag/netzentgelte
The network fee for a typical household customer for the network operators regulated by the Federal Network Agency is 7.65 ct / kWh in 2021 compared to 7.60 ct / kWh in the previous year (+0.7 percent).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromgestehungskosten#/media/Datei:Stromgestehungskosten_Deutschland_2018_laut_Fraunhofer_ISE.png


as financial part from total "service" price :


With currently 33.82 cents from the basic supplier and 22.77 cents from the cheapest alternative provider, consumers in this country pay the highest electricity prices per kilowatt hour in all of Europe.

25% commercial electricity generation (fob plant)+ 25 %net-fee + 50% extra fees the private household has to pay if grid-dependent !




Compared : US b2b market average electricity price about 5,5 US$-cents !





1 Euro a 5% land lease per annum = 0,05 Euro/sqm/year   divided    39447 KWh/sqm = 0,0000012 Euro/KWh land lease costs(5 KW/sqm)






Repeating : for 2050 ( without other E.U.-exit happenings ! 8) )


 200 Mio- private households  a 2,5 capita(= 500 000 000 habitants )

  x 3000 KWh p.a. electricity consume/39 447 KWh/sqm               


         15 200 000 sqm or                        15,2 sqKm  airpower generator area / 4.476.000 km² =           
                                   
                                                        1/300 000 E.U. land area need
 

                                                            for        0,0000012 Euro/KWh land lease costs
                                             
                                                      or   for        0,0000006 Euro/KWh land lease costs( 2x 5 KW/sqm)



                                          https://web.archive.org/web/20110817174850if_/http://www.airpower.co.il/PRODUCTS.htm


                                          100 KW unit : Length 250 cm and  Diameter/Height  80 cm




                                                                            NOT/ultra-low landscape disturbing !






Clearly,the autonomous private household micro-/smart-grid also possible,


 5 KW portable generator size  presented here https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1841544A2




No grid-fees,no CO2 emission costs and < 5 Euro-cent/KWh on-demand electricity costs




Beside wind 5 KW/sqm generator  ,in research : photo-voltaic 5 KW/sqm 8)   Also not landscape disturbing !
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 02:58:08 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2021, 07:33:33 PM »
What we can/will espect in the next few years ,wind/solar turbine costs related :


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993715000032


the given example : Nissan Leaf,55,9 Kg,rated 80 KW


Table 1. Comparison of electric motor technologies which reduce or eliminate rare earth magnets.


                              Nissan Leaf traction motor = Reduced NdFeB magnet


https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf

Go/No-Go Decision: Motor design meets DOE 2020 specific cost ($4.7/kW)


2012 AEV Motor Mass (55.9 kg, 80 kW)   2012 AEV Motor Price ($938, 80 kW)


Does Not Meet 2015 SC Target $7/kW


 Specific cost (SC): $11.73/kW   and  $938/55,9Kg =   16,8 US$/kg


2020 target: SC=$4.7/kW






Rotor PM 53% dividing with 5 = Iron-Nitrite magnets   https://nironmagnetics.com/

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/07/f65/050-Projects19%20-%20Advanced%20Manufacturing%20of%20Alpha%20Double%20Prime%20Iron%20Nitride_FeNix%20Magnetics.pdf

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201120005152/en/Niron-Magnetics-Partners-with-Marquette-University-and-General-Motors-to-Develop-Drivetrains-for-Electric-Vehicles-using-Rare-Earth-Free-Materials


https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/212843716.pdf   TABLE 1


The a-MnBi based bulk magnet may be commercialized if its energy product exceeds 10 MGOe at room temperature. The current state of the art result is close to this target.
The raw materials cost of MnBi is less than $15/kg as of January 2018.


Later :
For L10-FeNi and L10-FeCo, the thermodynamic pathway for the phase formation is either extremely sluggish or non-exist, making it much more difficult to overcome with any conventional metallurgical approach.
 L10-FeNi has the potential to rival the energy product of RE magnet without concern on supply and cost of the raw materials

Stator Cu 10%   changing with Alu or sodium or graphit


If "magnet array" can decrease the production material costs
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20130314&CC=US&NR=2013062983A1&KC=A1

as given example
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=6&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20111006&CC=US&NR=2011241349A1&KC=A1

and cooling techniques,too
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20010710&CC=US&NR=6259347B1&KC=B1
This invention allows for the reduction in size of a high power transformers by a factor of 4 to 8 and a reduction in weight by a factor of 4 to 6, and an increase in power density by 5 to 10 in power. The efficiency of the transformer is improved by maximizing the heat transfer from the transformers interior and minimizing voltage breakdown. The thermal properties of each core 12 will dictate the quantity of the thermally conductive strip 16 material required to lower the transformer temperature to a predetermined level, some testing may be required to established the optimal amount needed to provide proper cooling.[/font][/size]


High power transformer and motor or generator !





this will become as efficiency improvement applied !


And we can calculate with < $ 10/rated KW for 98% efficiency electric generator production price ( for wind conversion less RPM ! = more weight per KW)






Based by this given numbers the calculation 10 000 Euros production price and 15 000 Euros net selling price for 100 KW "airpower"-type generators will become real !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2021, 07:33:33 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2021, 11:57:50 AM »

From Roy Kessinger 15 US$/hp to 5 US$/hp electric motor(and generator) production costs development preview in year 2000

https://www.katech.com/katfiles/people.html   https://www.lynxmotiontechnology.com/

 https://www.semanticscholar.org/author/Roy-L.-Kessinger/98300480


 https://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/1996/06/24/story3.html


https://www.katech.com/katfiles/21FundPressRelease.pdf




and DOE 4,7 US$/rated KW  https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf  target







we get in future such compressed power density for motors and generators as standart :

https://www.magnax.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTuCshX5bc0


https://www.euroquity.com/de/entity/Magnax-7c4ee570-d3eb-4da5-b331-f06326780036/
a new generation of axial flux electric motors that deliver 4x more power density

https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/alternative-transportation/this-insideout-motor-for-evs-is-power-dense-and-finally-practical
One of our designs has a peak power density of around 15 kilowatts per kilogram.
Compare that with today’s motors, such as the one in the all-electric BMW i3, which delivers a peak power density of 3 kW/kg—or just one-fifth as much.
 And the Magnax machine is also more efficient.

Magnax, a Belgian startup, claims its direct drive motor has a peak power density of 15 kW/kg, with a continuous rating of around 7.5 kW/kg.      RPM !?


Nissan Leaf 2012 traction motor continuous rating : 80 KW/55,9 Kg = 1,43 KW/Kg     RPM !?


 

https://tech.eu/brief/magnax-series-a/

Fittingly, Magnax began in the founder’s garage.
In 2015 Peter Leijnen built a prototype of a yokeless axial flux machine for a customer who needed a light generator for a wind turbine project. 8) ;)


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=+Peter+Leijnen&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search




MAGNAX :
Our design can cut costs substantially in a high-volume business—for instance, the production in China of millions of motors of between 1 and 10 kW.
When producing in large quantities, what counts is limiting the cost of the raw materials, which as we’ve shown is significantly lower than for traditional motors.






https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf page 9 Motor Mass/Price


Nissan Leaf 2012 traction motor continuous rating : 80 KW/55,9 Kg = 1,43 KW/Kg

Magnax, a Belgian startup, claims its direct drive motor has a peak power density of 15 kW/kg, with a continuous rating of around 7.5 kW/kg. RPM !?


                                         = 2020 target: SC=$4.7/kW

                                                          REACHED ! :)






As generator ,                               for photovoltaic cell production costs comparison :


                                               $4,7/KW = $cents 470 /1000 W = 0,47 US$cent/Wc(ontinuous)
                                                                                                 0,24 US$cent/Wp


Can be,can not be :

https://www.greenoptimistic.com/green-ferrite-solar-cell-japan-20110920/

A team of professors and students from the Okayama Graduate School of Science and Technology
led by Professor Naoshi Ikeda has built a unique solar cell that uses an iron oxide substrate instead of silicon,
 making the cell not only cheaper, but, as the professor claims, 100 times more powerful than anything based on silicon.


The team’s aim is to build a solar panel that’s capable of generating 1000 watts of electricity 1000 times cheaper than a traditional silicon solar cell.
 
Each GF-based cell would cost about $12 and would be flexible, since the ferrite is used in a powdered form.


Life-time ? 1/2 year like A. Marks his Lumilight ? Shorter ?


A commercial product is expected by 2013.   Or 2023,2033 ?






btw : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3 the RWD model his edrive with 211 kW (283 hp) peak power


                                                                               = 1000 US$ production costs device


https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_ID.3#Technische_Daten  equipped with 500-750 US$ production worth/costs edrives


both ,Model 3( 360 Kg batteries weight ,STANDART) and ID.3 (310 -514 Kg the batteries) ,+- same weight 1650 Kg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Kwid   5 US$/Kg endconsumer price as combustion engine car version




We see asian 10 000 US$ endconsumer price electric cars in Model 3 and ID.3 ! (excluded battery : 100 US$/KWh production costs) )


A huge price compared with TATA NANO 2000 US$ ic engine car developped for the indian middle class !




Renault KWID electrique :
The vehicle uses a 26.8 kWh (kock with height) lithium ion battery and is powered by a 44 hp ( 33 kW), 125 N⋅m (92 lb⋅ft) front-mounted electric motor driving the front wheels.


With the price starting at 61,800 yuan ($8,650) after incentives,[47] this electric car is very cheap by Western standards.


 :o  Renault KWID   ic engine power/electric drive power : 1/1 ratio


                                                       Powertrain

EnginePetrol:
799 cc BR08DE I3

Power output 33 kW (44 hp8)


A 50 hp equivalent  alternative french e-traction drive

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20001020&CC=FR&NR=2792258A1&KC=A1


The torque integral, depending on the device, of a motor of I ch, at displacement speed of the point of application of the

force at 6000 tm, is the same as the torque integral of a 50 hp engine, which is the same power.


The output torque at the shaft 25 at 6000 rpm, is the same as the output torque of the moving interior device, flywheel.
This device equipped with four 500 wat motors, i.e. 2000 wats, with electronic management, is capable of the same torque and power performance as a motor.


50 hp thermal engine, while providing ancillary services including heating and preheating of the vehicle.5
The average consumption is of the order of IOOO wats per hour.

1000 Watt per hour consume means low battery capacity on board need !




So a 10 000 US$ -before incentives-  Renault eKWID will become available,inclusive middle/long range battery set  :1000 Km min. !




This flywheel-edrive can become also airpower generator alternative ! Generator-flywheel-motor -couple


MAGNAX :


Our design can cut costs substantially in a high-volume business—for instance, the production (in China ) of millions or billions of motors of between 1 and 10 kW. EVERYWHERE !
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 03:45:19 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 11:58:18 AM »
Planning an 100 Euros/KW net electric output ambient cycle :


KW/Kg power density comparison ,condition RPM ,Volt,Hz :


unproved static transformer :


https://patents.google.com/patent/US8847720B2/en


The overall dimension of the nominal generator is approximately H4.5 cm×W4.5 cm×L35 cm, not including the casing=708 cm3 (43 In3), not including the automobile battery or computerized control module.


The cyclic output per second is multiplied by 3600 to indicate the generator's hourly rating. Thus, at 400 Hz=60.7 Kva/h; at 800 Hz=121.4 Kva/h; at 3 KHz=460.8 Kva/h; at 6 KHz=921.6 Kva/h; at 60 KHz=9.26 Mw/h; at 600 KLHz=92.166 Kw/h; at 780 KHz=119.7 Mw/h.




At 100 Hz ( equates 6000 RPM household rotative appliances ) and 15 KVA/h divided assumed (708 cm3 a 7 gram/cm3) = near 3 KVA/Kg


at 800 Hz for heating devices (space and water )                                                                                                           near 24 KVA/Kg








Now : rotative motor and generator power densities ,bringing them to a compareable - RPM/Volt/Hz-  level :

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/17505/the-secrets-of-electric-cars-and-their-motors-its-not-all-about-the-battery-folks

https://www.marklines.com/en/teardown/drive_motor








https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/advanced-cars/new-electric-motor-could-boost-efficiency-of-evs-scooters-and-wind-turbines

https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/288591 rasertech = rare earth/Lanthaniden free


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/06/evo-20100601.html#:~:text=EVO's%20latest%20design%20has%20a,housing%2C%20shaft%20and%20resolver.)


https://www.sae.org/news/2020/04/equipmake-ampere-ev-motor


https://www.professionalmotorsport-expo.com/downloads/Presentations/G_d1_s0_p2_michael_lamperth.pdf


https://www.h3x.tech/


https://www.launchpnt.com/


https://www.fulmina.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/170622_the_magnetic_engine_en.pdf


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/millennial-research-corporation-generator-successfully-completes-field-trial-148665425.html


http://revolutionelectric.com/

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2016/03/21/qm-power-electric-motor-pj-piper.html QMpower = Flynn Research


https://www.hannovermesse.de/en/news/news-articles/the-torque-motor-is-simply-revolutionary


https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-develops-revolutionary-electric-motor/


https://benevelli-group.com/index.php/products-for-electric-vehicles-en/2-uncategorised/32-electric-motors-pmac-ac-dc.html






priority date 1996 ergo open source/fee-/licence-free technology

http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf  up to 10 KW/Kg continuous by 400 Volt condition

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=14&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20010612&CC=US&NR=6246146B1&KC=B1





" So a 10 000 US$ -before incentives-  Renault eKWID will become available,inclusive middle/long range battery set  :1000 Km min. ! "

                                                   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Kwid


In September 2015, the Kwid was launched in India at a starting price of 2.57 lakh rupees,[8] equal to $3,884.

                                                       Probably some means : "Not possible : 10 000 US$ eKwid,before incentives  !"

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56178802 20 KW electric drive

The Hong Guang Mini EV is being built as part of a joint venture with US car giant General Motors (GM). ;)

A budget electric vehicle (EV) selling in China for $4,500 (£3,200) is now outselling Tesla's more upmarket cars.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Kwid                              $3,884  / 775 kg                  5    US$/Kg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV        $4,500  /   665 kg                6,8 US$/Kg


Renault eKwid by Wuling Mini EV condition                               $5270   /   775 Kg                6,8 US$/Kg









https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotzenblitz

                   1990 !                                                 Empty weight :         830 kg  ( x 6,8 US$  ::) )

It is the first, and until the BMW i3 went on sale in November 2013, it was the only passenger car that was developed, mass-produced and sold to customers in the Federal Republic of Germany exclusively as an electric vehicle.


we will see in future many remakes https://www.pinterest.pt/pin/520588038154507657/


Fiat 500 violated smartcar  :P   and the result as engineered birth :


 like Citroen Ami https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScjggOSAUU






https://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrkultur/toyota-ex-ii-von-1969-das-e-ei-a-28c11442-9f7a-481d-9111-63a999c3c530#fotostrecke-01bbaa69-3769-41fc-b227-32db7957e514  Toyoto ExII conceptcar






e-  Tesla,Ferrari,Maserati,Mercedes,....   :                 The cars are being marketed as "the people's commuting tool".  ;)

                            the tool "eKwid,eTesla(based by scratch Lotus-platform),eMaserati,eBentley,....." for 10 000 US$ ,before incentives !

Performance : https://ev.tatamotors.com/#section3 ?
         


50% less material/costs,also making part :


Lund Uni
https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/lup/publication/ac5293fd-65b6-4ca1-be28-dc9dd1677f25

https://portal.research.lu.se/portal/files/5566044/26496.pdf  2005 patent-restrictions(no licence/fee) free =Doctor-at,Promotion




                                        transformed,no rare earth mass, uncountable times recycleable


                                          today the most "new" cars fob factory are used and recycled scratch based
 

                                         car-material to crusher to powder to 4d-reprint machinery

     https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape051_miller_2013_o.pdf page 9
                                     
                            2012         ($938/55.9 kg) as material management ratio : 16,8 US$/Kg


                            2021          first step : 53% Rotor Permanent Magnets /3  by   rasertech,FeNi magnets
                                                             10% Stator Copper                  /2  by   Alu coil or sodium coil/Sines cooling technology
                                                               9% Stator Fe                         /2  by   Lund Uni plastic bonded iron

                                       
                                            $938  to +- $520/"55,9 Kg" =          < 10 US$/Kg


                                                as patent-limitationsfree technology global industrial standart

                                                               $520/ 80 KW continuous                         <  6,5 US$/KW


Related  rasertech technology :
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/RASER-TECH-6829983/news/RASER-TECH-nbsp-Raser-Technologies-Inc-and-Subsidiaries-File-Voluntary-Petitions-for-Reorganizat-13614046/


https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/01/25/011903.html  Symetron(TM) technologies


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/10/raser_will_unve.html


their now free "Symetron" applications :


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=raser&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search




                                                      <  6,5 US$/KW production costs for 80 KW units (95% eff.) ,


as base for lower KW e-scooter,heat pump compressor drive (9000 btu for 200 $ average fob factory) ,wind generator turbine  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TrUPoevXI, household ( washing/clothes dryer/...) machines,......


similar MAGNAX industrial philosophy :


When producing in large quantities, what counts is limiting the cost of the raw materials, which as we’ve shown is significantly lower than for traditional motors.

http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf


 scooter 5 KW by 48 Volts  Active Weight !  to : 5 KW unit total weight    X    < 10 US$/Kg


             5 KW by 230 Volt ?                         Active/Total Weight ?                                             X     < 10 US$/Kg


             1 KW by 230 Volt ?                         Active/Total Weight ?                                             X     < 10 US$/Kg




Roy Kessinger bespoke twenty years before not only the 15$/hp to 5$/hp motor(generator) price development preview
but also the investment need for 1 Mio. production units :
from 250 Mio US$ to 25 Mio. US$


Helmut Schiller his technology allows to 2,5 Mio to 250 000 US$ production investment costs decrease,production units dependent !


Thousands of independent (local/regional) motor/generator producer world-wide spreading !


1 x 250 Mio to 1000 x 250 TSD investment local factories !


http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf

up to 10 KW/Kg continuous by 400 Volt condition   X     < 10 US$/Kg

                      =  10 KW/10 US$  = 1 KW/1 US$  motor(or generator) production price

                                                             REACHED ! :) 
                                    condition : Volt,Hz,RPM APPROPRIATE for wished use !


It seems he,H.Schiller, is in work for improvements :
2021  https://nl-nl.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3647440581935366&set=ecnf.100000083812216
a world-record holder by his edrive technology :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/010783922/publication/WO9718125A2?q=pn%3DWO9718125A2



https://www.theengineer.co.uk/aem-sustainable-motor/


Comments by  John Patrick Ettridge ( http://www.geminielectricmotor.com )





 for prototyping scratch reuse :


Teslas electric 4wheel "tools" drive are in that 400 Volt range,400 KW peak = 200 KW continuous :


 https://www.ebay.de/b/Ersatz-Motoren-Motorenteile-furs-Auto-fur-Tesla/61300/bn_7101366486




For later Halbach/Ronbach array motors or generators some configuration info  :


https://www.rclineforum.de/forum/board125-antriebe-und-komponenten/board198-elektro-antriebe/board199-motoren/317723-viele-papers-zu-elektroantrieben/index7.html?s=a8cefcf2d310d36fe0a0e30d30bf953a16a2ede2#post3969406


Donnerstag, 11. August 2016, 18:10
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290196350_CHAPTER_5_Hardware_developments_Halbach_magnet_arrays
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/200038506_Design_and_construction_of_a_dipolar_Halbach_array_with_a_homogeneous_field_from_identical_bar_magnets_NMR_Mandhalas


Freitag, 12. August 2016, 02:30

MM = Magnet Motor,Starnberg (Ex-AEG,spaeter Daimler Benz-Group )




" le dernier cry" in industrial R&D : https://insideevs.com/news/357824/plastic-electric-motor-reduces-weight/


                                                   https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acsaem.8b00240

                     
                                                   https://www.linkedin.com/company/e-circuit-motors


https://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/revolutionary-electric-motor-company-finds-its-first-client/93495
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 09:39:58 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Ambient cycle
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2021, 12:23:34 PM »
Planning a cheap - net zero energy- circuit ambient cycle :


how much and how near from this ratio 1 KW/1 US$ (for 80 KW units)production costs can in low/fractional  KW drives become realized ?


Dr.Wolfgang Volkrodt and his rated 100 W (one hundred watts) ! ;)  rated power drive assisting electric bike (in mention !)



                     administration target for the next time :

rated 1 KW permanent magnet electric motor,AC 220V/3000 RPM,with 95% efficiency :  25  US$ per unit mass production costs
                                                                                                                               50  US$  per unit online selling fob factory
                                                                                                                                        ( excluded controler )




               lean price and top quality management !









we take a conventional heat pump with thermal circuit and electric motor/grid circuit :






2021 standart C.O.P. 3 for air/air heat pumps ,means f.e.


9500 BTU = 2780 Watt heat output by average 2780 Watt heat /C.O.P. 3 = 928 Watt AC electric energy input




the electric heat pump drive,from conventional electric motor to roto-verter typus :


https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=9910


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=14&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19881103&CC=DE&NR=3713965A1&KC=A1


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20021121&CC=WO&NR=02093720A1&KC=A1




30% input energy recuperation the Gordon James couple Trinitymotors.net https://web.archive.org/web/20100412115122/http://www.trinitymotors.net/ let by ,physical prototypes experience ,results !




From C.O.P. 3 / (1                   -  0,3 recuperation =0,7 net input)                      = electric view heat pump  C.O.P. 4,28


 a generating transformer with average C.O.P. 2 function before the electric motor :


        C.O.P. 3 / [( 1/ C.O.P. 2  ) - 0,3 recuperation = 0,2 net input]                     =  electric view heat pump   C.O.P 15


a generating transformer with average C.O.P. 2,5


       C.O.P. 3 / [( 1/ C.O.P. 2,5) - 0,3 recuperation = 0,1 net input )                    =  electric view heat pump   C.O.P. 30


             a generating transformer change from 2 to 2,5 gives heat pump C.O.P. 15 to C.O.P. 30 improvement !





      with generating transformer C.O.P. 1    = heat pump C.O.P. 4,28

      with generating transformer C.O.P. 1,5 = heat pump C.O.P. 8,20


      with generating transformer C.O.P. 3    = heat pump C.O.P. 90,0


     with generator transformer C.O.P. 1,5 to C.O.P. 3  heat pump C.O.P. 8,2 to C.O.P. 90 improvement



                                  this maths field is called : dynamic and/or progression



generating magnet force field transformer we have publicated by Keiichiro Asaoka,Tanaka Saburo and Pavel Imris


and when heat pump electric motor sourced by AC:


inverter for DC/AC inversion from artificial photovoltaic converter like publicated by :


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900201&CC=DE&NR=3817730A1&KC=A1


C.O.P. 2  70 Watt out/35 Watt in


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=de&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=marzahn&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search


C.O.P. 4 650 Watt out/ 156 Watt in


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=28&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20120322&CC=DE&NR=102010035706A1&KC=A1


C.O.P. 6 180 Watt out/30 Watt in


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=30&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100615&CC=ES&NR=2341161A1&KC=A1


C.O.P. 3,5 1920 Watt out/ 500 Watt in



C.O.P. differences by : light source kind,solar cell efficiency(1988 standart/1998 standart/2008 standart/2021 standart ! ) ,with-/out mirror









heat pump C.O.P. 3 / [ (1 / 2,5 photovoltaic converter C.O.P.) -(0,3 x 1,333 David Yurth generator coil coating  recuperation) ]


             = C.O.P. 3 / 0 = net zero energy bi-thermal and electric-cycle system with " infinite C.O.P. "





                                 2,5 photovoltaic converter C.O.P.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900201&CC=DE&NR=3817730A1&KC=A1[/size]

70 Watt  1988  solar cell 5,25% efficiency to 15% 2021 efficiency = near 200 Watt
35 Watt  1988  fluoresescent lamp lumen/Watt efficiency to 2021 25 Watt fluorescent lamp equivalence




                     200 Watt out /25 Watt in = C.O.P. ratio  8 ,


                      >  2,5 photovoltaic converter C.O.P.



the old C.O.P. 2,4,6 and 3,5 by low efficiency solar cells improving  with future 45%-90% http://www.novasolix.com/technology efficiencies


                                                                           8)

instead simple mirror (3M Mylar) foil equipped with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QZAax0-XA



for greater energetic volumes : A(rtificial)P(hoto/Phono=thermal) Converter couple


1.step   C.O.P. 8
2.step   C.O.P. 8 x 8      = C.O.P.    64
3.step   C.O.P. 8 x8 x8   = C.O.P.  512


........



                                                 "Solar Active House" space and water heating systems


                                                       the system price max. 25 US$/sqm house area




 
                    200 Euros/sqm "Solar Passive House" architecture with the now ,2021,open source construction technology
                                  https://www.hausbau-isorast.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/isorast1.pdf
                                       
                                             Plastikhaus-International ,the Passiv-Haus-Institut Mentor a la LEGO
                                            ( Isorast + LEGO = in Australia sold as ZEGO )

                                            near 1400 KWh/176 sqm = < 10 Wp/sqm
                                            http://www.habiter-autrement.org/12.energies/16_ener.htm 1975 eco-standart

                                            and 20 Euros/sqm Solar Active heat/cooling system
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 03:21:25 PM by lancaIV »

 

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