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### Author Topic: Newton's Magnets  (Read 22127 times)

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Newton's Magnets
« on: February 01, 2019, 08:25:37 PM »
Equal and opposite forces.

It requires the same energy expenditure to pull two magnets in attraction apart,
as those magnets delivered during their attraction to each other.

Because Newtons laws are valid, and also because of the  two pole nature of permanent magnets...........

we can change the positions of two magnets, which are in close proximity to one another,
without doing work against the magnetic forces between those  magnets.  To see an example of this
illustrated,  open the PDF attached below.

We can get energy from magnets, cyclically and repeatedly.

We accomplish this by limiting motions to specific vectors  (right angle and or near right angle vectors),
by neutralization of (balancing of) attracting and repelling forces along specific vectors, and preventing
motions along specific other vectors.

To see this done watch this video, Titled "amazeing"

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

floor

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Newton's Magnets
« on: February 01, 2019, 08:25:37 PM »

#### F6FLT

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 404
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 11:35:49 AM »
I see no evidence of what is claimed in what is shown.

#### norman6538

• Hero Member
• Posts: 517
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 04:43:09 PM »
Floor you do some really great work with  all of your tests and setups and attempts.
I have used black silicon seal to hold magnets tight. It takes 10 or so hrs.
to setup hard. I expose it to air for several minutes to get it started. Then a sharp knife
will cut and separate them for reuse.

Its very cold here in the north east so I get more done inside than in summer.

Keep it up.

Norman

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 04:43:09 PM »

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 10:21:35 PM »
@Norman 6538

Hope you and yours are well.
Stay warm

floor

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 11:04:42 PM »
Because Newton's laws are valid.

Illustrated below in the attached pdf file.

One of the outer magnets is attracted by the inner magnet.
The other, outer magnet is repelled by the inner magnet.

Mechanical linkage, via the rack and pinon gear systems, makes it possible to
push or pull the outer magnet toward or away from the inner magnet, WITH OUT
DOING WORK AGAINST MAGNETIC FORCES.

This is because one magnet's attraction toward the inner magnet is equal to the other magnet's repulsion by the inner magnet.

Magnetic force decreases with distance.  That force drops off with distance, whether that force is an attraction or a repulsion.
Their rate of change is practically the same in both instances.

best wishes

floor

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 11:04:42 PM »

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 11:16:23 PM »

The inner magnet's instalation and / or removal is without doing work against magnetic forces.
This is due to a balance between the attracting and repelling  forces along the vector (line) of its travel.

floor

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2840
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 01:13:57 PM »
I looked through your PDF. The concept looks interesting.
Have you simulated this inn FEMM?

Would the attached design, that is based on the similar concept work in a similar way?
I often make other designs of the same concept to see if I do mistakes that I might miss on the first design.
The design in my poor drawing is easy to simulate in FEMM too. Just measuring torques at different positions of the wheels.

A vertical stationary magnet should do the same/similar job as the centermagnet in your PDF.

Since this vertical magnet isn't a piece of iron, it has its own magnetic field that does not prevent the rotormagnets to pass (?). A simulation will show how it works

Vidar.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 01:13:57 PM »

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2840
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 02:43:47 PM »
I figured it out. In your design, the lower magnet and stationary magnet adds up a stronger magnetic field. They are attracted to eachother, but since they add up, the repulsion between these two and the top magnet is stronger than the attraction bewteen the other two.
That means it will be a sideways force on the stator magnet when you try slide it out. In fact, the force is going in the right direction, but the total force between the two moving magnets is also repulsion, not neutral.

I simulated a rotary version of this. It ends up in zero torque.

Vidar

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 03:38:47 PM »
Hi Vidar

I figured it out. In your design, the lower magnet and stationary magnet adds up a stronger magnetic field. They are attracted to eachother, but since they add up, the repulsion between these two and the top magnet is stronger than the attraction bewteen the other two.
That means it will be a sideways force on the stator magnet when you try slide it out. In fact, the force is going in the right direction, but the total force between the two moving magnets is also repulsion, not neutral.

I simulated a rotary version of this. It ends up in zero torque.
Vidar

I did some rotary builds and found little or no usable torque.  I have femm but never use it.
My designs come from real world experiments

I never got stuck on the idea that a free energy device must have a spinny thingy
and / or a flashing thingy.  Most of these designs don't.

Inefficient devices need to spin, so they conserve momentum, OU devices don't.

Watch the short video below to a real demo of the Newton's magnets principles.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

There are many directions in which the magnets prefer to act.  Limiting their motions
to specific directions (with track systems) is why the designs work.

best wishes

floor

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 03:38:47 PM »

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2840
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 09:13:13 AM »
@Floor

I've watched the video. I'm not sure if you can feel any counterforce when using ferrites, with a relatively large spacing, in combination with a large heavy structure with friction.
Magnets are tricky. They tend to not do what they are told :-)
What we do know for sure, is that the fields from one magnet to the other have a magnetic force only when the field is not perpendicular to each other. As soon as on magnet is moving, the field starts to line up with other fields, and then repel or attract.

Looking at AC-transformers, will explain this well. The transformation will not take place if the primary coil is placed perpendicular to the secondary coil. The rule of thumb when designing crossover networks for speakers, the inductors are never placed in such way that they can transfer energy from one inductor to the other. If they do, signals from one frequency range will be transferred to a speaker driver that is not supposed to play that same frequency range.

Vidar

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 05:58:58 PM »
@ Vidar

With the shield magnet fixed in the position
you illustrate there SHOULD be zero torque.
(this is good)

It seems to me that with the right timing of an insertion and
removal of the shield magnet your design could work.  Your
output magnets are shielded well before they are directly
opposite one another  (this is also good).

But the shield magnet would need to slide (up in your drawing) a little bit,
JUST AFTER the two rotating magnets are directly opposite
each other (this will give a little torque).

But then the shield will be in the wrong position
for the next magnets, and so,  it needs to be returned to
its original position before they get there.

Try both shield positions in femm.
One will give torque, the other will not.
You need both.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

Today is Quatro de Julio (the 4th of july).
Its the day Americans celebrate their  "independence".

The first Americans lost their independence to the
Europeans,  because they had little immunity to the strange
diseases the Europeans brought with them.

Neither did they posse the hard technologies / weapons, which the
Europeans had sacrificed the welfare of the earth to manufacture.

They had no fanciest / corporate like,  government to brain wash
the people into blind soldier obedience.

The new Americans were surfs,  peons, and  slaves.  They still are.

Cages of steel aren't much needed if the peoples hearts and minds are

Love shall overcome fear.

peace out
floor

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 05:58:58 PM »

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2019, 07:21:46 AM »
@ lowQ

Designs (like yours) which are attempts to directly cause rotation
with the magnets are a bust (as far as I have seen).

The Newton's magnets design, is based upon hard right angle interactions.

This is the wrong topic to present either a new or a rotary design in.

This topic is about the design "Newton's magnets".

Please see the attached PDF file below "Newtons magnets.PDF"

thanks
floor

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2019, 07:29:22 AM »

This is a link to a short video of the Newtons magnet demonstrated.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

floor

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2019, 03:55:21 PM »
Chet posted my video in the other thread,but i will post it here as well,as this thread seems dedicated to the gating effect you have discovered Floor.

The first video is just a small test rig i threw together to see if there were any notable reaction forces--and none were found.

So i decided to put together a rotary design of mine,using Floors gate design.
The second video shows the 3D printed parts i have so far,but i decided to make the drum and gear 1 piece. Those new parts are on the printer ATM.

Anyway,you get the idea of what i am trying to do,and make the build easier.

It would seem, ATM anyway,that Floor's gate design may be what we have been looking for.
Keep up the good work Floor

Sorry about the printer noise in the second video.
I didn't think it would be that loud

#### Floor

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1805
##### Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2019, 12:00:47 AM »
Thanks Tinman / Chet et. all.

The magnets motion and measurement topic
has a lot of design variations posted in it and also
some very good explinations of the how and whys.

Lots of drawings  and links to 19 short videos.

Tinman, the design your are looking at is there as well.

See file below.

floor