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Author Topic: Newton's Magnets  (Read 8139 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2019, 12:18:14 PM »
Field gradients is the reason why the magnetic forces is present. A uniform field can't do that. At least one magnet needs a field gradient to operate.
Another important thing is how the field is polarized. Not as north and south, but how the field is oriented from its origin.
Think of a field as shells, like thin foils that is folded around the magnet. Two opposite poles or equal poles do not interact with eachother if the polarization is perpendicular to eacother. This can be seen if you put two long magnets, polarized throug thickness, an make a cross. Center-center will nor attract or repel even if both have a field gradient close to eachother.


I'm sure you guys know about magnetic field polarization. Not talking about north/south, but how these poles produce a polarized field that depends on the direction of the field gradients cross section.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2019, 12:18:14 PM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2019, 11:26:00 PM »
@ all readers

I just moved into a new home.  My life / organization is a lot to deal with at this time.  I haven't even finished the unpacking.  The new house needed work / was pretty much dysfunctional and is filthy.

It is one of my primary goals,  in the topics which I participate, to keep them as understandable to the general readership as I can.

I realize that it sometimes seem that I am talking down to other members, who are in some instances much more knowledgeable than my self.  Please don't take this personally.  I am almost always "speaking" in terms of as if many people were "overhearing the conversation".  Most of my actions / statement are very deliberate. My topics are not for the "experts only".
.... .... .... ... ... ..... .... .... .... .....
.... .... .... ... ... ..... .... .... .... .....
The Newton's magnets design is a demonstration / explanation / teaching tool.  It neither puts out energy nor does it do work. 

It is some what, fascinating to see those magnets pass so smoothly past the other magnet or magnets (in the short video link above), while such a tiny gap exists between them.  The first page of the Newtons magnets PDF file, is title "BalancedSlide 1.PNG" and is attached below.
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The device shown in the "rack action 2 complete.PDF" (attached above), is like wise a demonstration / explanation / teaching tool.  Most people get  an ah ha / see what the hell is meant by "balance between attracting and repelling forces".  However, unlike Newton's magnets and when using ceramic magnets, I am quite certain that the device exhibits "O.U.".

This design has some limitations / imperfections.  These are as Lumen has described.  There is what I will call (as a simplificatin) an "over crowding in the magnetic field" especially at close proximity.

This does not significantly interfere with the insertion and removal of the shielding magnet
(different vector).   But does create an imbalance in force between the two "output magnets".  That imbalance is mostly present while all three magnets are in close proximity (shield is in).  That imbalance can also contribute to the closing of the gap, during the output magnets return stroke, I think?  This is IN PART due to increased domain flipping, pretty sure ? .....

One must look at the forces over the entire output and input strokes.  Not simply the peak forces while the magnets are in close proximity. What I mean by this, is that, this is exceptionally true of this design (the force / distance curve is oddball).

That undesirable imbalance does not exist once the shield magnet is removed.

That imbalance decreases as the output magnets depart from one another (shield is in) and it increases as the output magnets approach on another (shield is in).

Note  The "rack action 2 complete"  PDF does not make clear that each broad face of  the shield magnet, should have a surface area that is about 2 times the surface area of a single face of either of the output magnet's (also referring to the broad face).  I think / hope I mentioned this in another topic at the time of that files first posting.
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The device shown in the Rack Action 3complete. PDF is a variation of the "rack action 2 complete.PDF"  It addresses "over crowding in the magnetic field".
The magnet orientations are flipped as compared to the "rack action 2 complete"  PDF.

Note that the "rack action 3 complete"  PDF also does not make clear that each broad face of  the shield magnet, should have a surface area that is about 2 times the surface area of a single face of either of the output magnet's (also referring to the broad face).
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The "Magnet force shield repulsion.PDF" is also intended to address "over crowding in the magnetic field".

It also is capable a greater output force due to the direct pole to pole orientation of the output magnets.

My   build   of this design is still incomplete.  I will attach photos at a later point, maybe today.
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@ Vidar  I think you are on the right track.  Lumen should test neo magnets with  large faces on the broad sides (stronger although not higher grade), but also having thin thickness (weaker although not lower grade).
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@ all readers
I don't have the time and energy, to re post all of the above PDF files right now.  Search for them / most are already on this topic?

             floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2019, 05:00:35 AM »
Here is the promised photo of the "Magnet force shield 1" build so far.

These are
1.the shield magnet array (polar checker board)
           and
2. one output magnet array. (two poles). 

These components will be mounted upon the sliding rails of the already existing, test bed.
90 degrees to one another and so on.

      floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2019, 05:00:35 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2019, 01:50:07 PM »
@Floor
You say you've moved into a new home (for some reason). Is everything OK? Are you OK? When people move, it is usually for a reason, so I just wondered if everything is OK :)


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2019, 07:26:03 AM »
@ LowQ

There was a death and the property where I have lived for the past several years was sold.

They say that in a hierarchical ranking of common and stressful life situations, that death, divorce and moving to a new home are at the top of that list.

The new place is actually a good space.  The house itself is not as big as the old place, but it is a nicer environment in so many ways.  Its just going to take some time to get it into shape.  I won't have a decent shop space for a while.  I'd sleep on a floor if that was what it took to have a good shop space !

  thanks for asking
       floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2019, 07:26:03 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2019, 06:40:38 AM »
Here is what the this topic is about.

Equal and opposite forces.

It requires the same energy expenditure to pull two magnets in attraction apart,
as those magnets delivered during their attraction to each other.

Because Newtons laws are valid, and also because of the  two pole nature of permanent magnets...........

we can change the positions of two magnets, which are in close proximity to one another,
without doing work against the magnetic forces between those  magnets.  To see an example of this
illustrated,  open the PDF attached below.

We can get energy from magnets, cyclically and repeatedly.

We accomplish this by limiting motions to specific vectors  (right angle and or near right angle vectors),
by neutralization of (balancing of) attracting and repelling forces along specific vectors, and preventing
motions along specific other vectors.

To see this done watch this short video, Titled "amazeing"  by yours truly  @

          https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q
..............................
..............................
A variation in design

A brief video by user - Tinman / his statements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmbekUqJcs
..............................
..............................
Another of the above designs

A link to a build by user  - citfta
      https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg535789/#msg535789

A link to a really short video of one of the variations in the designs by user  - citfta / his statements
                             https://youtu.be/1_CrU7M46S4
..............................
..............................
A PDF file  / flip book type presentation of "Newton's magnets" 

                                      See the attached file below

                 floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2019, 06:29:16 PM »
I looked through some videos by another user, here at O.U. forum.  I was hoping to find yet another video demonstration of magnetic force neutralization by some one other than myself.
                                      BUT...
The methods employed and the measurements were very badly botched.  Also, the presenter failed to focus upon / barely mentions the most critical / essential point (force neutralization).

So ... I post here another of my own videos.  Please ! It is not for the purpose of discussion per say,  and I hope that it will not throw the topic into another direction.

This is a fairly brief video, and its focus become most relevant a 2 minutes and 50 seconds into the video.

            2 minutes and 50 seconds

@ https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wfk0d


   best wishes
           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2019, 06:29:16 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2019, 06:32:28 PM »
The next process in this topic will be (I think) to look at the work done in shield insertions and removals.  As an evolution of the Newton's magnets interactions.

                            floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2019, 07:24:37 PM »

The PDF file at this link describes and illustrates a bit more than the basics of magnet interaction.
It is BRIEF, but also fairly detailed in some of its descriptions.  A big piece (1/2) of the PDF is in the form of a flip book (this is a type of video), so please don't be hesitant to view / down load it.  It's a quick read.

Some of the diagrams are exactly relevant to the "Newton's magnets" and also the Newton's magnets interaction, on this topic

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/169582/

       floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2019, 07:24:37 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2019, 07:38:30 PM »
The next process in this topic will be (I think) to look at the work done in shield insertions and removals.  As an evolution of the Newton's magnets interactions.

                            floor
Yes this is a critical issue in the whole design,  work of the insertion/removal vs the work produced by the repelling magnets.
Also, Citfta's design (probably covered in one of your documents), works on a bit different principle,
where force vectors are mutually opposing, which cause their neutralization, which is very clever.
But the  reaction forces on a shield magnet are quite high, which may cause some additional efforts for moving it,
IMHO.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:06:13 PM by telecom »

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2019, 10:48:55 PM »
These aspects are equally "a critical issue".

1. energy expended in the removal and insertion of a shield
           And
2. effectiveness of the shielding
                They are not issues to me.

I know with a total certainty that many of these designs result in more mechanical work out
than mechanical work input.

I also know that most anyone who REALLY wants to know if this is so...... can ......
and in pretty short order.

The question is who among us REALY wants to know this with a total certainty?

Who wouldn't want a free energy device.
Every one wants free energy for their self.
Some even want it for everyone.

I realize that most will say / think of their self as wanting to know.
After all who wouldn't want to be the first to discover, or reveal or so on.

But I think the alone ness of standing within that kind of knowledge, is something
most people instinctively fear.  They are seekers, but also secretly hope not to find,
or perhaps more accurately fear to find.

Think it might be an easier thing, to be AMONG the first to know.

How about your self.  What do you think ?

Look at this proof.  Its not magnets, but it works for very
(in a way) similar reasons (90 degree to the force vector and balancing of forces).
          @

https://overunity.com/18234/new-version-of-flotation-device/msg535512/#msg535512

The above design, is not REASONALBY deniable.  Please understand, I'm not interested in argueing that point, or spending the another five years patiently waiting, (motly patiently :) ) as people discover that they really didn't    or      really did want'to know.  Its late in the "game".

            Peace out
                       floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2019, 10:48:55 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2019, 11:01:10 PM »
@ Telecom  and ALL READERS

Please notice.

You designate a next objective. 
      But why ?
If a first objective has not been arrived at AND DEFINITIVELY SO.

I'm asking YOU, what do YOU know.

I have heard the phrase "seems to" far too often.

Defecate or get off the porceline feces removal unit please.

            floor

Offline telecom

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2019, 07:35:04 PM »
These aspects are equally "a critical issue".

1. energy expended in the removal and insertion of a shield
           And
2. effectiveness of the shielding
                They are not issues to me.

I know with a total certainty that many of these designs result in more mechanical work out
than mechanical work input.

I also know that most anyone who REALLY wants to know if this is so...... can ......
and in pretty short order.

The question is who among us REALY wants to know this with a total certainty?

Who wouldn't want a free energy device.
Every one wants free energy for their self.
Some even want it for everyone.

I realize that most will say / think of their self as wanting to know.
After all who wouldn't want to be the first to discover, or reveal or so on.

But I think the alone ness of standing within that kind of knowledge, is something
most people instinctively fear.  They are seekers, but also secretly hope not to find,
or perhaps more accurately fear to find.

Think it might be an easier thing, to be AMONG the first to know.

How about your self.  What do you think ?

Look at this proof.  Its not magnets, but it works for very
(in a way) similar reasons (90 degree to the force vector and balancing of forces).
          @

https://overunity.com/18234/new-version-of-flotation-device/msg535512/#msg535512

The above design, is not REASONALBY deniable.  Please understand, I'm not interested in argueing that point, or spending the another five years patiently waiting, (motly patiently :) ) as people discover that they really didn't    or      really did want'to know.  Its late in the "game".

            Peace out
                       floor
Quite honestly, I'm  in line for building this machine - will try doing it asap.

Offline Floor

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2019, 11:42:21 PM »
Telecom, if you will, PLEASE consider doing a replication of the device   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmbekUqJcs

This design variation, by the Tinman is quite elegant and is right on topic.

It is especially so AT THIS TIME.

I think it very important that as a FIRST principle,  the "Newton's magnets" principle is established.

It would be indellably established in the mind of anyone who actually and successfully builds one,
that magnetic force can be effectively neutralized along specific vectors.

The device is also an entry level build, in that most people could successfully complete it in short order.

MY build of it is nearly complete. If should be fun to play with, and it will be easily transported.

Who REALLY wants to know ?

                floor

Offline telecom

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Re: Newton's Magnets
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2019, 03:33:42 AM »
It appears that on the outside there are two repelling magnets, and one magnet in between.
It is equally spaced, and attracts to one external magnet while being repelled by another.
The way I see it, attraction and repelling forces on the central magnet act in the same direction.
In this case, how they are being equalized?
(Its quite different from the case when outside magnets are synchronized through the
rack and pinion arrangement, where outside magnets are pulling each other in the opposite directions).


 

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