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Author Topic: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1  (Read 89481 times)

Offline lancaIV

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #345 on: November 09, 2020, 02:22:43 PM »
This is in jest of course but I do have a over unity heater in my apt right now. It mines ETC and keeps my apt at or above 83 degrees. At this moment it is returning a profit of $122 per month.  I do no work for it other than watch. Nice heater huh?
thay
Do you probably understand why inventors do not want to introduce their findings ?

70° ,assumption Fahrenheit ~ 21,1 ° Celsius           83 ° F ~ [(83 - 32)x5]/9 = ?
Average ? Ceiling level,floor level ?
Ecology does not interest you !?
Probably this we should understand as individuum  ' sustainable behaviour' !?

Maximum and minimum by law in Germany : 17°(night)-22°Celsius(day) !( measure point ?)
In your country/estate ?

Appropriate heat device( central,decentral=1-room )
f.e.

US2013011125 Charles Souders 'Rolling lumens heating systems'

Address : Rochester Hills,MI/USA   climate zone ?
"...... heated to and maintain a temperature of 70 degrees ."



Sincerely




p.s.: scola/ecole /escola/school/Schule  : over  25°Celsius(shadow measurement)     
                         
                                                                          =

         HITZEFREI ! No lesson-/learning-condition !
       Learning and the=l'  l'earn(-ing)

Your apt - under actually Lock-down- not appropriate for ' home-schooling' ! 24/7 HITZEFREI !  8)



It is ever interestant to compare our behaviour with social given benchmarks !
Child to Adult : why me and you not,too ?

Freedom of Future

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #346 on: November 14, 2020, 11:39:31 AM »
THE TEXT BELOW IS FORBIDDEN FOR READING BY THOSE, WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ARITHMETIC!
=============================================================================
Please consider CAREFULLY and THOROUGHLY the link below.
 https://www.fuelcellstore.com/electrolyzer-65-e106
The link above describes a PEM electrolyzer and its operating characteristics. Three of them (most important ones) are given below for your convenience.
Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC
Permissible Operating Voltage: 0 - 4 VDC
Permissible Operating Current: 0 - 4.4 A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us consider two examples and compare them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) EXAMPLE 1. A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The copper wire consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the copper wire, (b) Ohmic resistance R of the copper wire, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the copper wire. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the copper wire (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1, respectively.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 2) EXAMPLE 2. The above described PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The above described PEM electrolyzer consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the above described PEM electrolyzer , (b) Ohmic resistance R of the above described PEM electrolyzer, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the above described PEM electrolyzer. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) In addition however AS A SIDE EFFECT (AS A BY-PRODUCT) the above described PEM electrolyzer releases a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates an additional heat H. Therefore the correct efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a heater) is given by the inequalities (Q + H)/E > 1 and
(16000 J + H)/16000 J > 1, respectively.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Experimental data (Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC), guaranteed by the manufacturer, and some simple arithmetic. One and same approach, but different final results.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) The text above unambiguously leads us back to our first post of January 28, 2019, 08:58:40 AM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW MUCH TIME WILL IT TAKE FOR SIMPLE OBVIOUS TRUTH TO WIN PUBLIC RECOGNITION?

Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #347 on: November 14, 2020, 12:19:13 PM »
Do you have a calorimeter? Put this electrolyzer there,and measure the actual heat generation.
That would be interesting to me.And you, I think, too. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #347 on: November 14, 2020, 12:19:13 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #348 on: November 14, 2020, 06:27:16 PM »
https://youtu.be/hlrhW33xk7U
Well, here's an alternating current electrolysis.No diodes, no rectifiers, just a transformer.

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #349 on: November 16, 2020, 11:25:19 AM »
To kolbacict.
---------------------
Hi kolbacict,
Thank you for your reply.
1) About the alternating current electrolysis. Interesting, very interesting! Please give us some time to consider it carefully.
2) Please have a look again at our last post. Do you need a calorimeter in order to measure the Joule's heat, which is generated by the copper wire? Obviously not -- you take it for granted. The same for the PEM electrolyzer. It behaves just like the copper wire, if considered as a Joule's heater only, and because of this just like the copper wire it does not need a calorimeter in order to measure the generated Joule's heat. Simple logic, doesn't it?
Looking forward to your answer.
Regards,
George 
   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #349 on: November 16, 2020, 11:25:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #350 on: November 16, 2020, 12:24:05 PM »
Hi.
In the case of wire it is not necessary. In the case of an electrolyser, it is not obvious. I'd rather measure it.
In the case of alternating current, everything is simple. one of the two electrodes is made of niobium.When it is an anode, it is oxidized.And does not conduct current.Maybe someone will consider this a hoax, but it's interesting anyway. :)

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #351 on: November 17, 2020, 09:56:05 AM »
To kolbacict.
============
============
Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
============
Yes, you are absolutely right that AC electrolysis is an interesting concept and let us not be in a hurry to reject it. As if it has some serious potential, which must be studied however precisely and thoroughly. Please give us some time to consider carefully the related link you have sent.
============
Please refer to our previous post, which describes the PEM electrolyzer.
--------------------------------
1) A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
2) The PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
In one word, in this particular case the copper wire and the PEM electrolyzer are absolutely identical and equivalent, if both are considered as Joule's heaters only. As a generator of Joule's heat only, the PEM electrolyzer behaves just like the copper wire. Simple and clear.
--------------------------------
Do you accept the validity of the above extremely simple logic?
   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #351 on: November 17, 2020, 09:56:05 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #352 on: November 17, 2020, 02:14:12 PM »
Quote
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.

Quote
Hamlet

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
:)
It is not obvious to me until I measure it myself in a calorimeter.
I would like it to be that way, because I have to spend on fuel.

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #353 on: November 17, 2020, 02:35:49 PM »
Hi kolbacict,
-------------------------------
1) It is perfectly valid for the copper wire circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
-------------------------------
2) It is perfectly valid for the PEM electrolyzer circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
-------------------------------
3) What is the difference between previous items 1 and 2? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #353 on: November 17, 2020, 02:35:49 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #354 on: November 19, 2020, 02:12:47 PM »
The simplest calorimeter is a defined volume of water with a known heat capacity.Surrounded by thermal insulation.By the change in temperature, we solve about the number of joules. right?
You make me do it myself. You live well there.And here life is not sweet.I have to do many things that do not bring pleasure.But  need to make a living. :)

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #355 on: November 20, 2020, 12:36:31 AM »
https://youtu.be/hlrhW33xk7U
Well, here's an alternating current electrolysis.No diodes, no rectifiers, just a transformer.
That video idea looks a bit dangerous is all it is at what I can see is a container
full of a liquid possible plain water fed by an isolation transformer or auto transformer.
What hapens wen all the water evaporates or some one picks it up while it's live ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #355 on: November 20, 2020, 12:36:31 AM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #356 on: November 20, 2020, 06:36:15 AM »
The circuit will break and there will be no current.

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #357 on: November 20, 2020, 10:57:48 AM »
To kolbacict.
==================
Hi kolbacict,
Thank you for your reply. And my respect to your enthusiasm for seeking the truth despite of the difficulties in your life!
---------------------------------
May be it would not be necessary to use a calorimeter. Please read the text below, if you like. (The text below repeats some considerations from our previous posts.)
---------------------------------
1) It is perfectly valid for the copper wire circuit (which is hidden inside a black box 1) that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
-------------------------------
2) It is perfectly valid for the PEM electrolyzer circuit (which is hidden inside a black box 2) that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
-------------------------------
3) Let us assume that an electric engineer must measure the Joule's heat generated by the load, which is hidden inside black box 1. Having in mind the readings of the measuring devices (voltmeter, ammeter, ohmmeter, watt-meter and clock) he/she would inevitably conclude that the Joule's heat, generated by the hidden load, is just equal to 16000 J.
------------------------------
4) Let us assume that an electric engineer must measure the Joule's heat generated by the load, which is hidden inside black box 2. Having in mind the readings of the measuring devices (voltmeter, ammeter, ohmmeter, watt-meter and clock) he/she would inevitably conclude that the Joule's heat, generated by the hidden load, is just equal to 16000 J.
------------------------------
5) In one word, any electric engineer in the world, without being interested what loads are hidden inside black boxes 1 and 2, would inevitably conclude that the Joule's heat, generated by any of the two hidden loads, is just equal to 16000 J. Any electric engineer in the world would only look at the readins of the measuring devices and after that he/she would only make some simple calculations leading to 16000 J of Joule's heat generated by any of the two hidden loads.
------------------------------
What is your opinion? Two black boxes and two unknown loads hidden inside these two black boxes. For the any of the two cases you have only the readings of the measuring devices (voltmeter, ammeter, ohmmeter, watt-meter and clock). How to get the Joule's heat generated by any of the two hidden and unknown loads?
-----------------------------
Looking forward to your answer.
Best regards,
George   

Offline kolbacict

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #358 on: November 20, 2020, 11:28:43 AM »
Hi.
the resistance of the copper wire is constant and the power is constant for a long time.the resistance of the electrolytic cell will not be constant.there will be chemical reactions, electrodes will dissolve, changing the composition of the electrolyte.Although, within 1000 seconds it will be quite small.
Already will introduce an error.

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #359 on: November 20, 2020, 01:56:33 PM »
Hi kolbacict,
Thank you for your reply.
Good answer indeed! Yes, an error could really appear just as you mention in your last post. This error however can be easily
eliminated by two parallel (simultaneous) ways. Firstly, you have to add regularly distilled water in the PEM eletrolyzer and
secondly, you have to cool down regularly that same PEM electrolyzer thus keeping constant its temperature and its Ohmic
resistance, respectively. It's simple.
(Please look also at our post of March 26, 2019, 10:39:21 AM, almost two years ago. It is written there that:"Constant pure/distilled water and cooling agent supply could keep constant the electrolyte's/electrolyzer's temperature, heat exchange, mass and ohmic resistance, respectively.)
Looking forward to your answer.
Regards,
George
     

 

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