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Author Topic: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1  (Read 60740 times)

Offline lancaIV

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #270 on: February 20, 2020, 06:11:49 PM »
A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER
Or

 Pulse energy generator system
WO2018032008 Robert Burgener,Troy Atkin
C.O.P. : ? [ 0056/0057/0058/0059 : 2,0 + 2,13 + 3,2 +6 as output/input ratio number ]

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Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #271 on: February 22, 2020, 09:09:30 AM »
Hi lanca IV,
But your last post pulse generator has nothing to do with our topic! This is something entirely different and has nothing to do with efficiency bigger than 1! I WILL REPEAT AGAIN: Can you show us some publication, article, any written text, you tube clip, etc., which unambiguously and directly tells us that any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer is actually an electric heater which has efficiency bigger than 1? (PLEASE FOCUS ON ELECTROLYZERS!)
Looking forward to your answer.
George

Offline lancaIV

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2020, 01:59:38 PM »
George, "appropriate technology"  !
Efficiency ≥ 1 electrolysis from technical view : take a glas full with water and introduce ",chemslloy"- powderYou get a hydrolysis process  !
Question by economic view : how much milligram hydrogen per hour and the hydrogen purity !
Not the efficiency stage is important for the industry but the costs of 1 Kg - nearly/pure- hydrogen production ,the 1 Kg hydrogen production velocity

andtoday cause mainstream criticism : carbon finger-/footpint free/poor  !

When you write about " Simple Heater" and C.O.P.≥1 you have to define the parameters !

When I show you " simple heater"- concept/-s with C.O.P.≥ 1 you can not deny  their existence and recuse it as " off-topic" !
Chemalloy,silver,palladium et cet.  : anti- oxidant function  !

Water : hydrogen + oxygen       " anti-" : catalyzer effect       splitter/divider

Have a nice weekend and probably " Carnivale"- feste

OCWL


« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 06:30:47 PM by lancaIV »

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2020, 01:59:38 PM »
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Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #273 on: February 28, 2020, 01:58:18 PM »
Hi lancaIV,
Thank you for your reply.
1) As if you are the only brave person here in this forum who dares to discuss a real theoretical breakthrough related to efficiency/COP > 1. Congratulations for this!
2) Your last post is very interesting. Please give us some time to consider it thoroughly and carefully.
3) When reading your last post at first glance however some questions appear immediately. And here are these questions.
3A) What do you mean exactly by using the phrase "introduce ",chemslloy"- powderYou get a hydrolysis process"? Please explain this in detail, if possible.
3B) What do you mean exactly by using the phrase  "andtoday cause mainstream criticism : carbon finger-/footpint free/poor"?
3C) What do you mean exactly by using the phrases "Chemalloy,silver,palladium et cet.  : anti- oxidant function  ! Water : hydrogen + oxygen       " anti-" : catalyzer effect       splitter/divider"? You have arranged a series of words which as if need some additional explanation. Would you be so polite to explain this in detail, if possible?
4) It follows directly from our further development of Professor Srivastava's problem (please look at our previous posts) that every standard hydrogen generating electrlolyzer is actually a simple electric heater which has C.O.P./efficiency greater than 1. And what parameters to show -- any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer (from the small laboratory one to the biggest industrial electrolyzer that is bigger than a bus) has its parameters (power/energy consumption, rate of hydrogen production, hydrogen purity, etc.) which are adjusted and shown by the respective manufacturer.
5) We do not deny the possibility of existing of another heating technology THEORETICAL conception which has C.O.P./efficiency bigger than 1. Our question however was quite different and let us repeat it again:  Can you show us some publication, article, any written text, you tube clip, etc., which unambiguously and directly tells us that any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer is actually an electric heater which has efficiency bigger than 1? (PLEASE FOCUS ON ELECTROLYZERS!)
Looking forward to your answer.
George         

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #274 on: March 07, 2020, 09:55:52 AM »
Hi lancaIV,
You still didn't answer our question. Let us repeat this question again: Can you show us some publication, article, any written text, you tube clip, etc., which unambiguously and directly tells us that any standard hydrogen-generating electrolyzer is actually an electric heater which has efficiency bigger than 1? (PLEASE FOCUS ON ELECTROLYZERS!)
Looking forward to your answer.
George         

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #274 on: March 07, 2020, 09:55:52 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #275 on: March 08, 2020, 03:01:14 PM »
Palladium = Oxydant
Silver= Oxydant
Argentum-elements = Oxydants

Aluminium = Oxydant if not Oxidation-layered ergo anti- oxydation coating
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f9/aluminum_water_hydrogen.pdf


In the vicinity of room temperature, the reaction between aluminum metal and water to form aluminum hydroxide and hydrogen is the following: 2Al + 6H2O = 2Al(OH)3 + 3H2. The gravimetric hydrogen capacity from this reaction is 3.7 wt.% and the volumetric hydrogen capacity is 46 g H2/L.

https://phys.org/news/2007-05-hydrogen-aluminum-alloy-fuel-cells.html

The gallium is critical to the process because it hinders the formation of a skin normally created on aluminum's surface after oxidation. This skin usually prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum, acting as a barrier. Preventing the skin's formation allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used.


to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd157yBmNaM


active surface from 1 ccm solid aluminium versus surface area from 1 ccm nanoaluminium grains ?









Permanent Magnets = Oxydant ?   EP0462103  ?!
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=EP&NR=0462103A4&KC=A4&date=&FT=D&locale=en_EP


The magnetic amplifying assembly also produces other benefits such as increasing the pH of the water due to the reduction of hydrogen which bonds to the conduit. The available oxygen (aerobic activity) also increases 270 percent; and fewer BTU's are required per degree of temperature increase to heat the water.









When permanent magnets also electromagnets ,too !? What is electrolysis ? :P

With negative charge or positive charge  ?
Hydrogen polarisation ? Oxygen polarisation ? Bonded !? Unbonded !?


Hydro - Oxid ~ water  oxydation = splitting  ; purity ? mole per sec/minute/hour ?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 06:16:27 PM by lancaIV »

Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #276 on: March 11, 2020, 02:14:16 PM »
Hi lancaIV,
Interesting post. Please give us some time to consider it carefully. (But I would like to ask to be a little more specific and to express your thoughts in a little more clearer manner.)
George

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #276 on: March 11, 2020, 02:14:16 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #277 on: March 11, 2020, 08:13:30 PM »
Hi George.

Not all of the electrical energy becomes heat, during the electrolysis.

Some of the energy MUST have been spent to split the water / was not spent to heat the water.  It's not split by the heat !

If the heating of the water by the passage of an electric current through it is a 100% efficient energy transformation,
then the breaking apart of the water molecules plus the heating is itself an O.U. event.  This would be O.U. even before burning the H and O.
                                                         TO my understanding this is not the case.  It's not O.U. .

Are there not electric charge potentials present in the H and O gases, which were not present in the water before electrolysis,
and which are the result of the electrolysis? 

That ionization  energy / potential is where some of the electrical energy put into the water goes during electrolysis.

If 100% of that ionization energy is transformed into heat when burning the H and O, then you have Unity, but still not  O. U. .

But as I pointed out previously,  If the electrolysis heating combined with  the heat of H and O burning are  = Unity  (scientific convention holds this to be so)

                                         Then..... 

The H can be burned (heat gained) this = unity.

Energy gained as a rising of the H through the atmosphere before burning (Hydrogen  balloon) is then O. U. .

                                           Also
 
The H can be burned at a high altitude (mountain top) giving yet more O. U. as that of falling water.

The by product of that burning is water vapor.


                          floor


Offline George1

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #278 on: Today at 04:13:12 PM »
Hi Floor,
======================
======================
1) I am sending again our post of March 26, 2019, 10:39:21 AM.
"Please have a look at the book "Solved Problems in Physics", 2004, Volume 2, p. 876, solved problem 12.97. The author of this book is Prof. S. L. Srivastava (Ph.D.)
The same book can be found at the link  https://books.google.bg/books?id=rrKFzLB9KQ8C&pg=PA876&lpg=PA876&dq=%22electrochemical+equivalent+of+hydrogen%22&source=bl&ots=tQ8PSMLet3&sig=ACfU3U2HOLB78XHl2o3q-JanapzSK-McJA&hl=bg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDpp2-zZXhAhWT5OAKHUfuBzUQ6AEwBHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22electrochemical%20equivalent%20of%20hydrogen%22&f=false
--------------------------
For your convenience I am giving below the text of the problem and its solution.
--------------------------
12.97. In the electrolysis of sulphuric acid solution, 100 mg of hydrogen is liberated in a period of 20 minutes. The resistance of the electrolyte is 0.5 Ohm. Calculate the power consumed. Electrochemical equivalent of hydrogen is 1.044 x 10 -8 kg/C.
Solution: The power consumed is equal to 31.86 W.
Prof. S. L. Srivastava stops here his calculations.
(The related solution's set of equations is not given here in order to save time and space. This set of equations however can be found in the book or in the link above.)
--------------------------
The above solved problem has a potential which can be developed further. And here it is.
1) Let us calculate the inlet energy, that is, inlet energy = (31.86 W) x (1200 s) = 38232 Ws = 38232 J.
2) Let us calculate the current I. The current I is given by I = (m)/(Z x t) = 7.9 A,
where
m = 0.0001kg of hydrogen
Z = electrochemical equivalent of hydrogen
t = 1200 s
3) The Joule's heat, generated in the process of electrolysis is given by
Q = I x I x R x t = (7.9 A) x (7.9 A) x (0.5 Ohm) x (1200 s) = 37446 J = outlet energy 1.
4) HHV of hydrogen is 142 000 000 J/kg. Therefore the heat H, generated by burning/exploding of 0.0001 kg of hydrogen, is given by
H = (142 000 000) x (0.0001) = 14200 J = outlet energy 2.
5) Therefore we can write down the equalities:
5A) outlet energy 1 + outlet energy 2 = 37446 J + 14200 J = 51646 J
5B) inlet energy = 38232 J.
6) Therefore COP is given by
COP = 51646 J/38232 J = 1.35  <=>  COP = 1.35  <=>  COP > 1.
------------------------------
Constant pure water and cooling agent supply could keep constant the electrolyte's temperature, heat exchange, mass and ohmic resistance, respectively.
Besides 0.0001 kg of hydrogen (and the related amount of the already split pure water) is small enough and can be neglected as a factor influencing the electrolyte's temperature, mass and ohmic resisitance.
-----------------------------
And one more interesting fact.
Literally the same solved problem can be found in an old Russian (still from the Soviet times) book "Сборник задач и вопросов по физике", 1986, p. 130, solved example problem 71. The authors of this book are Р. А. Гладкова and Н. И. Кутиловская. In the Russian version the data is a little different, that is, time is 25 minutes, the amount of generated hydrogen is 150 mg, Ohmic resisitance is 0.4 Ohm and the calculated power is 37 W.
Russians also stopped their calculations at 37 W.
Our further development of the Russian version led to COP = 1.37, that is, we have again COP > 1.
-----------------------------
Therefore the text above unambiguously shows that it is a matter of exact experimental data which is in perfect accordance with theory. Because I cannot imagine that three highly qualified experts in physics (yet strongly separated by time, space and nationality) would have made one and same mistake three times in a row. This is impossible!"
-----------------------------
Do you have any theoretical (ONLY THEORETICAL!) objections against the text above?
YES OR NO?
==============================
==============================
2) As for the balloon variation I perfectly agree with you -- it is really an OU device. Shall we do it? Some approximate calculations?
==============================
==============================
Looking forward to your answers.
Regards,
George       

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #278 on: Today at 04:13:12 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1
« Reply #279 on: Today at 06:53:52 PM »
-------------------
Do you have any theoretical (ONLY THEORETICAL!) objections against the text above?
YES OR NO?

           No

       regards
            floor

                   PS
                       Did you by chance find
                             some other references to
                               the hydrogen balloon On this forum
                                other than the single reference I (much earlier) posted

 

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