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New theories about free energy systems => Understanding OverUnity => Topic started by: stevensrd1 on January 16, 2019, 06:51:21 AM

Title: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: stevensrd1 on January 16, 2019, 06:51:21 AM
 Its all about the ram pumps, if you dont know what they are then do a search on youtube or google. This was known about back in the day but somehow was forgotten, wonder how that happened. Anyway a ram pump works like this. Water from a reservoir flowing down hill a little ways then goes to a ram pump. The ram pump uses that little water pressure from the down hill flow and then pushes water up hill to a great distance far higher then your reservoir. And it does it all mechanically with no needed power source of any kind since a ram pump is powered by gravity itself. Now you can use many ram pumps that get water up hill fast and it can all come from one reservoir and you can have them all working at once as well. Then you allow that water to fall down hill through electric turbines that generate electricity just like how hydroelectricity is made. And you direct that water that is now falling down hill back into the same reservoir that you used to get the water from in the first place. That keeps it full of water, and you have free electricity generated in the process of it all. So yeah totally free electricity can easily be made. And this was known about long ago, just some how mysteriously forgotten, misplaced, and turned into hydroelectric dams of today that supply the power most pay for.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 16, 2019, 09:23:34 AM
The flow you can raise is always less than the flow that provides the energy, so the system cannot be looped.

It's like a transformer, just because you have a small voltage in primary and a large one in secondary doesn't mean you can supply the former with the latter. Always the same confusion between potential (voltage or water level) and energy!

And posted in "Understanding OverUnity" when the basics of elementary school physics are not even mastered, what a pretentiousness!  ::)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 16, 2019, 02:04:47 PM


The following is from a web site about ram pumps.

A ram pump uses the downhill flow of water to pump a portion of it uphill. You can pump up to 25 percent of your supply water, depending on the drop and the lift. Ram pumps will work on sites with 3 to 50 feet (0.9–15 m) of head (vertical drop) and can deliver to elevated sites far from the pump and source.

The formula for calculating the amount of water a ram pump can pump.
Water Delivered = Available Water x Source Fall x 0.5 ÷ Delivery Height           


We can see from the formula and information that 75% of the water goes on past the ram pump.  It has to in order for the pump to work.  We also can see that the amount of water a ram pump can pump depends on the source fall or head pressure getting to the pump.  So you can't put more of them in series because the lower ones won't have any head pressure.  And putting several of them in parallel will only work if you have a very large volume of water flowing downhill.  But even then each pump is only going to pump at most 25% of the water that is getting to that pump.  So you can't make a looping system where you keep pumping the same water back to the top.


And ram pumps have not been forgotten.  There are webs sites where you can buy them today.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 16, 2019, 05:26:58 PM
You must see the "Thai pump" !
It's not a Heron fountain.

Take a tank full of water. Use the weight of the water, and force the water to go in one direction only.
In the top of the tank, you get the entry. In the bottom, it go out.
Entry is connected to the source, and the source is lower than the output, but the weight and the no return are running like a syringe (see the deformity on some tank).
Understand the potential.

Working solutions :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX3nk9T-24w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX3nk9T-24w)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-DkxTvvFg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-DkxTvvFg)

See also the Tesla valve, here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 18, 2019, 09:34:02 AM
You must see the "Thai pump" !
...

It's not particularly Thai, it's the "siphon" principle!
"The word refers particularly to a tube in an inverted 'U' shape, which causes a liquid to flow upward, above the surface of a reservoir, with no pump, but powered by the fall of the liquid as it flows down the tube under the pull of gravity, then discharging at a level lower than the surface of the reservoir from which it came." (therefore no energy gain)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: lancaIV on January 18, 2019, 09:47:40 AM
https://www.britannica.com/science/energy (https://www.britannica.com/science/energy)
Measure-method?  By simple thinking or Quantum-pair( specific h x v)  internal energy state change. ?
                                                                          2019
                                        More than 100 years past Empires falls !
                               "Kaiser ( King from Prussia + Guard of the ev.-luth. Church) Wilhelm"
                changed to "Physiker Max Planck"- Institutions Title-Hirarchie, in Germany  !
                                       Kaiser/CZar/Caesar ~ Patriarchen(Pappas/Peers) ~ Quantumphysiker
                                                                                         NWO
           
                  A.  EINSTEIN : " GOTT  ? NICHT! " JULIUS GAIUS CAESAR : "alea acta Est"
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 19, 2019, 07:42:31 AM
F6FLT, it's not a syphon here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vWIXaFuKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vWIXaFuKs)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 19, 2019, 05:02:51 PM
There are no forgotten OU ideas. There are failed OU ideas which are being resurrected as OU ideas.
This one is NOT ou.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 19, 2019, 06:09:32 PM
Can they close the loop?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 20, 2019, 04:15:16 PM
You must see the "Thai pump" !
It's not a Heron fountain.

Take a tank full of water. Use the weight of the water, and force the water to go in one direction only.
In the top of the tank, you get the entry. In the bottom, it go out.
Entry is connected to the source, and the source is lower than the output, but the weight and the no return are running like a syringe (see the deformity on some tank).
Understand the potential.

Working solutions :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX3nk9T-24w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX3nk9T-24w)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-DkxTvvFg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-DkxTvvFg)

See also the Tesla valve, here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w)
It is very interesting, but what kind of staff they put inside of the barrels?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 21, 2019, 11:42:03 AM
I have no response. Only this draw to explain the principe.
Thanks
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: lancaIV on January 21, 2019, 11:50:45 AM
http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Fluids/Hydrostatic_Paradox/Hydrostatic_Paradox.html
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 21, 2019, 06:42:16 PM
F6FLT, it's not a syphon here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vWIXaFuKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8vWIXaFuKs)

It is a cheating presentation that does not work because the outlet water level is higher than the inlet level.
It is not the model of the device that was presented in the real world, in the link you gave previously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y

It is very clear here that the setup is not that of the cheating presentation: the water outlet level is lower than the water level stored in the bin, therefore it works, it works according to the syphon principle, it's not free energy, it's not the model, the model doesn't work for the given reason.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 21, 2019, 06:50:54 PM
F6FLT, yes, but in this one, the level is up, no ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 21, 2019, 07:15:27 PM
So, who does the work?
The atmospheric pressure?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 21, 2019, 07:17:52 PM
It is a cheating presentation that does not work because the outlet water level is higher than the inlet level.
It is not the model of the device that was presented in the real world, in the link you gave previously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH36RyXfz-Y

It is very clear here that the setup is not that of the cheating presentation: the water outlet level is lower than the water level stored in the bin, therefore it works, it works according to the syphon principle, it's not free energy, it's not the model, the model doesn't work for the given reason.
In the syphon,
the water goes up from the excess air pressure caused by the difference in height.
Here it is pushed up by the atmospheric pressure, due to a vacuum in the tank.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 21, 2019, 10:47:29 PM
I think about the low pressure. It's something working like a serynge, with the big potential of the tank.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 23, 2019, 02:33:15 AM
I have no response. Only this draw to explain the principe.
Thanks
Don't think this diagram reflects reality because if you remove water in the
output, nothing will change - it is controlled by the surface area, not the volume.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Xavier on January 23, 2019, 09:09:35 AM
Quote
Don't think this diagram reflects reality because if you remove water in the
output, nothing will change - it is controlled by the surface area, not the volume.

Yes. The output is only there to prevent air bubble to come inside the tank.

The only thing to understand is :

- If you have no hole in the tank, and if the bottom output of the tank is not in air > the water can't go, because the low pressure is superior to the gravity force

- If you make a hole at the top of the tank -> the water can fall, whe return to normal pressure


The model, une idée simple :

- If you give water instead air to the hole -> new water coming to the tank, and stored water can fall.

This can be done with a potential difference beetwen "in" and "out", and only if "out" is powerfull than "in".

The stored water weight allow this difference.



Thanks
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 23, 2019, 11:14:47 PM
In hydrostatics, they usually look at the pressure,  rather than the weight.
Because in the tank, weight is absorbed by the bottom, but pressure increases
with the depth, for example. at 1 meter it will be 1 atmosphere,
no matter how much water is there.
I will do some reading on it to understand better.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 24, 2019, 04:05:00 PM
F6FLT, yes, but in this one, the level is up, no ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng)
We don't know. The level is up in relation to the ground, but it is not known what the water outlet level is in relation to the water level in the pond, we don't see both at the same time.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 24, 2019, 04:14:58 PM
In the syphon,
the water goes up from the excess air pressure caused by the difference in height.
Here it is pushed up by the atmospheric pressure, due to a vacuum in the tank.

It's the same thing. The vacuum in the tank is due to the falling water.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 25, 2019, 02:47:27 AM
Except here it flows from the lower level to the higher.
I more inclined to think of the pressure differential.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 25, 2019, 03:17:58 AM
I am always amazed at how few people on this forum actually know anything about basic physics.  The barrels of water can only work if the outlet is lower than the inlet.  The vacuum in the tank is working to stop the water from flowing out the same as it is acting to bring more water in.  The vacuum is measured in inches of mercury or sometimes in other units.  But the measure is for a given surface area of the water.  In this case the water is moved out of the tank because of the height of the water in the discharge line being greater than the height of the water in the incoming line.  This is called head pressure.  The higher the tank the more head pressure which comes from the weight of the water in discharge line in an area of a one inch column of water measured vertically from the top of the water to the actual output of the discharge line.  No matter whether the discharge line is 1 inch in diameter or 2 feet in diameter the discharge pressure is still the same.  You can just get more water through the larger line.

So the atmospheric pressure outside the tank is pushing down on the water outside the tank against the columns of water in both the intake and discharge lines.  The partial vacuum created by some water flowing out of the tank through the discharge line is acting on both the discharge line to keep the water from flowing out the same as it is acting on the water in the intake line trying to draw it in.  Since the pressure is acting equally on each square inch of water column it makes no difference whether the intake or the outlet is bigger than the other.  The only thing that will affect the flow is a difference in height of the water in those two lines.

NEVER GET YOUR EDUCATION FROM YOUTUBE!!!  Unless you are wanting to learn how to make fake videos.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: seychelles on January 25, 2019, 07:17:28 AM
Well CITFTA , Please explain this one.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: seychelles on January 25, 2019, 07:24:57 AM
OR THIS ONE .
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: seychelles on January 25, 2019, 08:30:28 AM
And a U TUBE for good measure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6bQdlglvM8
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 25, 2019, 10:43:59 AM
Except here it flows from the lower level to the higher.
...
Only in your mind, not in the real life. Watch the videos.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 25, 2019, 11:33:42 AM
...
NEVER GET YOUR EDUCATION FROM YOUTUBE!!!  Unless you are wanting to learn how to make fake videos.

I agree. The height of ignorance can be seen in explanations that take some principles of physics (gravity acting on water, vacuum sucking, pressure...) to conclude that energy is not conserved.

This non-sense is not even a question of physics, but of pure logic and math. Any mechanical system can be described by a Lagrangian which by definition takes energy conservation as an operating principle. This description is fully compatible with a description by forces, weight, speed, pressure and so on, both descriptions are logically related and true or false together. It is therefore absurd to use classical reasoning with forces, weight, speed, gravity, pressure etc. to conclude that there is overunity, it's fake physics and mathematically false. 

The known laws of physics imply the energy conservation for reasons of pure logic and consistency of their internal formalism.
So
- either the known laws of physics apply, then you must suppose or reveal a hidden energy source from which an apparent overunity would originate,
- or the known laws of physics don't apply, and then you can't use them to prove overunity. Instead, you must provide undoubted experimental evidence, and then a new theory will have to be developed.


In the videos, there is no evidence that the outlet is higher than the inlet: end of the scientific analysis, there is no overunity until proof of the contrary.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 25, 2019, 02:40:37 PM
Only in your mind, not in the real life. Watch the videos.
This is how Toricelli barometer works in real life.
"
The simplest kind of barometer is a tall closed tube standing upside down in a bath of mercury (a dense liquid metal at room temperature) so the liquid rises partly up the tube a bit like it does in a thermometer. We use mercury in barometers because it's more convenient than using water. Water is less dense (less heavy, in effect) than mercury so air pressure will lift a certain volume of water much higher up a tube than the same volume of mercury. In other words, if you use water, you need a really tall tube and your barometer will be so enormous as to be impractical. But if you use mercury, you can get by with a much smaller piece of equipment.
"
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/barometers.html
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: telecom on January 25, 2019, 02:43:14 PM
I agree. The height of ignorance can be seen in explanations that take some principles of physics (gravity acting on water, vacuum sucking, pressure...) to conclude that energy is not conserved.

This non-sense is not even a question of physics, but of pure logic and math. Any mechanical system can be described by a Lagrangian which by definition takes energy conservation as an operating principle. This description is fully compatible with a description by forces, weight, speed, pressure and so on, both descriptions are logically related and true or false together. It is therefore absurd to use classical reasoning with forces, weight, speed, gravity, pressure etc. to conclude that there is overunity, it's fake physics and mathematically false. 

The known laws of physics imply the energy conservation for reasons of pure logic and consistency of their internal formalism.
So
- either the known laws of physics apply, then you must suppose or reveal a hidden energy source from which an apparent overunity would originate,
- or the known laws of physics don't apply, and then you can't use them to prove overunity. Instead, you must provide undoubted experimental evidence, and then a new theory will have to be developed.


In the videos, there is no evidence that the outlet is higher than the inlet: end of the scientific analysis, there is no overunity until proof of the contrary.

You have to take atmospheric pressure into the equation. than nothing is violated.
1kgF/cm2.
Atmospheric pressure can lift mercury up to 760mm.
Since mercury is 13.6 times heavier than the water, water can be lifted up to
.76 m x 13.6 = 10.3 m.
So it can be lifted  10 m only by the atmospheric pressure.
It was discovered by Torricelli in 1643.
(This note is for you, physics warriors)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 25, 2019, 03:24:31 PM
You have to take atmospheric pressure into the equation. than nothing is violated.
1kgF/cm2.
Atmospheric pressure can lift mercury up to 760mm.
Since mercury is 13.6 times heavier than the water, water can be lifted up to
.76 m x 13.6 = 10.3 m.
So it can be lifted  10 m only by the atmospheric pressure.
It was discovered by Torricelli in 1643.
(This note is for you, physics warriors)

I don't consider myself a physics warrior.  But I spent 26 years as a volunteer firefighter.  Guess what they use to put out fires?  WATER!!  We had to pump water to put out the fires.  The principles of moving water against gravity are clearly known.  As you have correctly stated atmospheric pressure can raise water a total height of 10 meters if there is a complete vacuum at the top of the column of water.  But what you keep ignoring is that same air pressure is also trying to keep water from flowing down the discharge tube.  The only way to have an unbalanced condition that will let water flow out the discharge is if the discharge line has more vertical height than the intake line.  PERIOD!

Get you some soda straws and some plastic containers you can seal up and build something to prove I am wrong.

Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 25, 2019, 04:18:12 PM
The lack of understanding of basic physics and math is what makes these posts so entertaining!
I suspect that there is a strong correlation between posters 'believing' in their idea of OU and 'faith' in a deity/god/spirituality.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 25, 2019, 05:25:18 PM
The lack of understanding of basic physics and math is what makes these posts so entertaining!
I suspect that there is a strong correlation between posters 'believing' in their idea of OU and 'faith' in a deity/god/spirituality.


Well that is another very false assumption.  Most Christians like myself believe very strongly that the God who created this universe and all that is in it, also created it with very strict laws of how it would operate.  If that were not true then the universe would have  quickly fallen apart.  I am also quite sure there are very many things we don't understand about how it operates, so it is interesting to keep searching for what we don't know.  As I have posted before on this and other forums, nearly all the fields of modern scientific study were started by men that recognized that someone had to have set the rules and order for how things work.  The main stream media would love for you to believe that believing in a creator means you can't believe in science also.  That is a very BIG LIE.


Respectfully,
Carroll


Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 25, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
You have to take atmospheric pressure into the equation. than nothing is violated.
...
To get energy from anything is easy. A falling stone can produce energy. Two attracting magnets also.
The point was only "overunity", i.e an endless cycle.
When nothing is violated, there is no overunity.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: onepower on January 26, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Citfa
Quote
The main stream media would love for you to believe that believing in a creator means you can't believe in science also.  That is a very BIG LIE.
The most fundamental premise of science is the "Conservation of Mass and Energy". That is nothing can be created or destroyed only transformed thus the notion of creation will always be incompatible with science. Science also tells us that repeating a fallacy over and over does not make it any more or less true only repetitious.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 26, 2019, 08:09:03 PM
CitfaThe most fundamental premise of science is the "Conservation of Mass and Energy". That is nothing can be created or destroyed only transformed thus the notion of creation will always be incompatible with science. Science also tells us that repeating a fallacy over and over does not make it any more or less true only repetitious.

It appears you are unaware of the fact that almost every field of scientific study was originally started by men and women who believed in a creator.  Their study was started because they wanted to learn more about this amazing world the creator created.  And more and more evidence shows this world was created by design and not by accident.

A recent study done on the DNA of over 100,000 animals showed that they all came into existence at almost the exact same time.  And the study also found that the DNA clearly showed genetic boundaries between the species.  There is no SCIENTIFIC evidence whatsoever that evolution happened.  The DNA also showed that the age of the animal species also was the same age as the human race.  All this study was written up in a SCIENTIFIC journal.  Of course you will not hear about any of this on the main stream media.  And this is only one of the many things recently discovered that support the Bible.

Just the fact that the nation of Israel is back in existence after almost 2000 years is proof that the Bible is true.  The old testament prophets correctly predicted over 2500 years ago that the nation of Israel would be destroyed and the people scattered all over the world.  They also predicted the nation of Israel would become a nation again with the members of the Jewish race once again coming back to the Promised Land.  And all that has happened just as the old testament prophets said it would.


The article about the DNA was posted to the website www.physics.org (http://www.physics.org).  It was posted sometime in late May if I recall correctly.  The article was written by Marlowe Hood.  The study involved over 5 million gene snapshots or "DNA barcodes" taken from more than 100,000 animals.  These DNA barcodes came from the GenBank database which is managed by the US government.  The study was done by Mark Stoeckle of the Rockefeller University in New York and David Thaler of the University of Basel in Switzerland.  The website where this was posted is clearly pro evolution and is still are pushing the myth of evolution even after this study was posted there.


Respectfully.
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 26, 2019, 08:15:32 PM
Any 'prediction' that is open-ended (non-specific) in space or time is useless. The Bible has NO meaningful 'predictions' at all.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 26, 2019, 10:38:18 PM
Any 'prediction' that is open-ended (non-specific) in space or time is useless. The Bible has NO meaningful 'predictions' at all.


It is quite obvious you have never done any research on your own about the Bible.  You have only listened to the lies told by others.  Jesus while on the earth fulfilled over 300 prophecies that were foretold about Him by the Old Testament prophets.


To get back to science for a minute.  There was a famous atheist who lived in England.  I don't recall his name right now.  He was an astronomer and a famous mathematician.  He determined to prove that evolution was possible mathematically.  If I recall correctly he spent over a year gathering data from biologists and others interested in the field of evolution.  Then he went to work calculating how evolution could have happened.

His conclusion was that it was mathematically impossible for evolution to have occurred.  As he explained it,  it was more likely that a tornado could got through an auto junk yard and mix up all the stuff there and when the tornado left there would be a fully functional 747 aircraft.  The simple law of entropy is clear evidence that things do not get better by accident.  They only get worse.  So to believe that all the beautiful and unique things that are in this world happened by accident is clearly delusional.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: AlienGrey on January 26, 2019, 11:02:24 PM

It is quite obvious you have never done any research on your own about the Bible.  You have only listened to the lies told by others.  Jesus while on the earth fulfilled over 300 prophecies that were foretold about Him by the Old Testament prophets.


To get back to science for a minute.  There was a famous atheist who lived in England.  I don't recall his name right now.  He was an astronomer and a famous mathematician.  He determined to prove that evolution was possible mathematically.  If I recall correctly he spent over a year gathering data from biologists and others interested in the field of evolution.  Then he went to work calculating how evolution could have happened.

His conclusion was that it was mathematically impossible for evolution to have occurred.  As he explained it,  it was more likely that a tornado could got through an auto junkyard and mix up all the stuff there and when the tornado left there would be a fully functional 747 aircraft.  The simple law of entropy is clear evidence that things do not get better by accident.  They only get worse.  So to believe that all the beautiful and unique things that are in this world happened by accident is clearly delusional.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Yeah thanks for the recital from the King James book of lies sorry I meant over 250 translation errors where they actually swap the creator with Satan, Any way Do you mean Yahway or Yesuha Sun of Joseph (sorry another mistake).
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 27, 2019, 02:16:32 AM
Carroll, why don't you give me the BEST 'prediction' from the bible?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: blueplanet on January 27, 2019, 05:51:19 AM
The VC idea looks interesting.


I suspect that this was how so many mud volcanoes were formed in Indonesia.


Don't worry about the trolls. They are not comfortable because you talk about something out of the syllabus of their high school physics.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: blueplanet on January 27, 2019, 07:21:04 AM
Can they close the loop?




Some years ago, a poster called Dave has proposed a similar idea to suck water up by capillary effect and then use natural condensation means to close the loop .  I was initially skeptical and I was also one of the trolls who posted negative messages. (Please forgive my ignorance at that time).......  During the years of disappearance from this message board, I accidentally found a document about a chemist being able to use a reversible chemical reason to cause artificial condensation and hence to close this loop. The phenomenon of this experiment eventually became a well known chemical effect. I just cannot remember the name of this effect.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 27, 2019, 01:17:25 PM
Carroll, why don't you give me the BEST 'prediction' from the bible?

The Bible doesn't do "predictions".  Predictions are what the weather forecasters do.  They gather all the data they can find and then make a best guess as to what will happen.  Most of the time they are pretty close.  But sometimes they miss it badly.

The prophecies of the Bible are what God has said will happen.  And they have and WILL happen.  I have no way to know what you would consider the BEST prophecy.  But I will tell you what God has said about the future.  Maybe you will live long enough to see it all happen.  God said the nation of Israel would be reborn.  I have already posted that.  But he also said they would be opposed by every nation on earth.  That is almost true now.  The US is just about the only nation still willing to stand up for Israel.  But God has said that the tiny nation of Israel will never be destroyed again.  And if you would take the time to do a little research you would learn their very existence is proof of God's protection.  Shorty after they became a nation in 1948 they were attacked from all sides be several of the mideastern countries.  Against over whelming odds the tiny group of ragtag men and women with no modern weapons defeated their enemies.

You can do the research and you will find that in every war against them since that time they have won against armies and airforces much larger than theirs.  Sometime in the probably not too distant future they will be attacked again by a coalition of Russia, Turkey and Iran.  They will again defeat their enemies with God's help.  I hope you live long enough to see that and maybe you will remember that I posted this.  And then maybe you will realize God's prophecies are not the same as predictions.

I have noticed that you have totally ignored the scientific evidence I have presented.  Did you even look at the link I provided to check out the SCIENTIFIC  proof that evolution was not possible?

We have derailed this thread long enough.  I am sure I am wasting my time trying to convince you to look for truth instead of following the lies put out by the main stream media.  But hopefully some will read my posts and realize they have been lied to by the media.


Good bye,  I will pray for you.
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 27, 2019, 03:04:17 PM
A prophecy IS a prediction. It says what is expected to happen at some place in the future.
So, give me what YOU consider the bible's best prophecy.
Decades ago I actually studied the bible.
You don't know that "I totally ignored the scientific evidence I have presented. Did you even look at the link I provided to check out the SCIENTIFIC proof that evolution was not possible?" just because I did not bother mentioning the pseudo-scientific stuff you referred to.
How old is the earth? The universe? What scientific method did you use to determine that?
Don't bother with praying; it is totally useless.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on January 28, 2019, 04:15:37 PM
A prophecy IS a prediction.
The whole statement is:
A prophecy IS a prediction that is never verified, except statistically (no one is mistaken all the time).
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 28, 2019, 05:19:41 PM
This system is used all around the world (some would describe as the 3rd world)
in a very practical way.


it is not overunity.
But it is a very efficient and useful way to move water for various purposes,
usually crop or garden related.
Moving water from a nearby pond, up a hill to their yard.


It takes quite a bit to set up the conditions for operation, and these conditions
are not stable.


Over time air enters through the intake water and fills the vacuum.
(actually just a low pressure zone)
Which allows the water column to lower.
Eventually the tank must be refilled completely to evacuate the air.
Essentially “recharging” the pump.


The set-up consumes energy
But it’s all at once, to set it up and get the system flowing, and water moves
out slowly over time, serving as a useful application of the pump.


The entire volume of water in the tank as well as input and output pipes
must be lifted initially.
gravity is a very symmetrical thing.
there is a difference in final height, but the volume of water that
is transported “up” is equal to the mgh of the depleting tank above it.


The system requires the supply end to be unrestricted
which introduces air into the system.


The reason these systems are shown in foreign languages is to add mystery
and generate views on their videos.
It’s just a low-tech water pump guys.


We use electricity because it’s reliable, consistent, and more importantly
has economic value.


There are ways to lift any godly amount amount of water to any
height fathomable, for basically free.
Such as evaporation cycles or exploiting the capillary effect.


But this system here is not free anything, well maybe for them because they are
using recycled garbage and their own manpower...
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: onepower on January 28, 2019, 05:34:16 PM
I would ask the question many seem to overlook... what just happened here?. Why are we talking about this quackery called religion?.

The fact is most religious people are narcissistic abusive personality types who seem to enjoy gaslighting other people. It works like this, Citfa can't mind his own business and has to drag God and religion into every conversation. Then when someone confronts him he claims to be the victim which is classic gaslighting ... victimizing the victim.

You see the religious quacks cannot seem to keep their mouth shut or mind their own business or stay out of education and government because they know that whenever anyone confronts them about their abusive behavior they can always play the "I'm the victim" card. This is how the abusive cult known as religion spreads among the population because the conversation was designed to be one sided.

That is, I can say anything I want concerning my beliefs or religion however if you ever question or contradict me I will claim to be a victim, that I am being persecuted and that you are spreading hate. Do you see how that works?, I can say or do almost anything I want however if you ever question me about my beliefs you are the bad guy victimizing me. If fact it is just the opposite and these religious quacks spreading lies are gaslighting everyone.

So how do we prevent this kind of sadistic psychological warfare?, it is not easy however there are a few ways to do it.
1) Simply walk away and refuse to take part in nonsensical conversations which misrepresent the facts.
2) Confront them directly, I like to say "prove it" prove what you say or I cannot believe it. Just keep repeating prove it or show me proof and there absurd arguments basically fall apart.

I like to think of it this way, everyone has a right to their own beliefs however I also have the right to reject their nonsensical lies and call them out. They can believe whatever they want so long as they keep it to themselves, keep away from my family and out of my schools and government.

Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: AlienGrey on January 28, 2019, 06:24:08 PM
I would ask the question many seem to overlook... what just happened here?. Why are we talking about this quackery called religion?.

The fact is most religious people are narcissistic abusive personality types who seem to enjoy gaslighting other people. It works like this, Citfa can't mind his own business and has to drag God and religion into every conversation. Then when someone confronts him he claims to be the victim which is classic gaslighting ... victimizing the victim.

You see the religious quacks cannot seem to keep their mouth shut or mind their own business or stay out of education and government because they know that whenever anyone confronts them about their abusive behavior they can always play the "I'm the victim" card. This is how the abusive cult known as religion spreads among the population because the conversation was designed to be one sided.

That is, I can say anything I want concerning my beliefs or religion however if you ever question or contradict me I will claim to be a victim, that I am being persecuted and that you are spreading hate. Do you see how that works?, I can say or do almost anything I want however if you ever question me about my beliefs you are the bad guy victimizing me. If fact it is just the opposite and these religious quacks spreading lies are gaslighting everyone.

So how do we prevent this kind of sadistic psychological warfare?, it is not easy however there are a few ways to do it.
1) Simply walk away and refuse to take part in nonsensical conversations which misrepresent the facts.
2) Confront them directly, I like to say "prove it" prove what you say or I cannot believe it. Just keep repeating prove it or show me proof and there absurd arguments basically fall apart.

I like to think of it this way, everyone has a right to their own beliefs however I also have the right to reject their nonsensical lies and call them out. They can believe whatever they want so long as they keep it to themselves, keep away from my family and out of my schools and government.
Hmm really, not every one will agree with that, take 911 and the American Junta and the Bush, Obama, Rumsfeld Satanic handshake and the satanic face from the smoke fumes, what was that 'Scots mist or swamp gas' do me a favor,  America is satanic, the word God is short for 'God're'el' who do you think that character is.  'facts' if eve had 'the forbidden thing' with Satan then we are all Satans children hadn't you worked that one out it's all about deception.
now i said my bit now shut up and get the thread back on track cus this is going nowhere.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 28, 2019, 07:22:03 PM
To Onepower,

This discussion about religion started with the following post by memoryman.  I certainly agree you have a right to your opinion.  And when someone attacks my beliefs I also have a right to defend those beliefs.  If that offends you that is too bad.  I will make no apology for what I believe.  Don't attack what I believe and I won't respond.  I stopped responding on this thread until you FALSELY accused me of bringing religion into this thread.



The lack of understanding of basic physics and math is what makes these posts so entertaining!
I suspect that there is a strong correlation between posters 'believing' in their idea of OU and 'faith' in a deity/god/spirituality.


Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 28, 2019, 08:03:54 PM
It always amazes me that people feel attacked when something is questioned. maybe they are really insecure about their beliefs?
"you FALSELY accused me of bringing religion into this thread." I never accused you of anything.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 28, 2019, 08:24:04 PM
To memoryman,
You need to read that post again.  It was directed to onepower, not you.  I was trying to explain to him that my posts were in response to your post claiming belief in God was not valid.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 28, 2019, 08:48:21 PM
The first line of my response still applies.
"your post claiming belief in God was not valid." I claim that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god. No theist has ever been able to provide any evidence to me.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on January 28, 2019, 09:02:19 PM
The first line of my response still applies.
"your post claiming belief in God was not valid." I claim that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god. No theist has ever been able to provide any evidence to me.

And when I gave you some information proving scientifically that evolution was false you refused to even look at it claiming it was pseudo science even though it was presented by two large universities and two international scientists.  And it was presented in a scientific journal and posted on a scientific web site.

The real problem is that what I believe offends people like onepower.  Why is that?  If I believed in pink unicorns no one would care that I posted that on this forum.  Or if I believed in the tooth fairy no one would object.  But when I post that I believe in a Creator, I get a bunch of flack.  Hmmm.  Maybe deep in their heart they know I am telling the truth and they don't want to hear it.

Out of respect for others who may want to actually read what this thread is supposed to be about I will not respond any further.


Again, Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: ramset on January 28, 2019, 10:46:02 PM
fingerprints...a chalkboard and rules .
I see the fingerprints everywhere ....all seems to be in motion ... even the smallest spec ...has specs which move to some _tune_....with many rules to govern them all .
one rule jumps out at me... it has always puzzled me ,
If all things evolve for their own benefit and having overcome the horror of space [for living things]and arrived here to flourish...why do these perfect living machines ,which compete and rebuild themselves to such "almost" perfection... [to win] for billions of years...
why do they all Die ..after a ridiculously small amount of time .
billions of years of winning...and then we just "Poof"...and Die ?.....
I beg to differ...there seem to be rules which make absolutely no sense at all,death being one of them ... our bodies are machines after all ...and even the few years we "men" have been here [timeline perspective] and we knock at deaths door....  most can easily see what to "fix" to stop death ..its in the manual after all...[we did  crack the "DNA"instruction manual recently ,some call this DNA code a "universal language "??

why now .......  and how soon till we crack this symphony of matter ? and learn to play the _tunes_ which shapes all things.... and start to make our own "things" ??
...our own "EVERYTHING"....

and then there is this miraculous chalkboard we inhabit ,like a giant eraser the tectonic plates grind away the old and present the new...
Nahhh
I may have been born at night...but it wasn't last night...
..just one mans opinion
respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Magluvin on January 29, 2019, 12:20:21 AM
The first line of my response still applies.
"your post claiming belief in God was not valid." I claim that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god. No theist has ever been able to provide any evidence to me.
"I claim that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god."
Ok. But can you prove that God does not exist?
In the real world, we never see things jumping into existence out of nothingness, but atheists want to make 1 small exception to this. The big bang and life itself.

Richard Dawkins said, If you tell me that God created the universe, then you tell me who created God?
Dawkins question only makes sense of a God that has been created. It doesnt make sense in terms of an uncreated God. We could turn that question around and say, if the universe created you, then who created the universe???
Mags


Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on January 29, 2019, 03:15:06 AM
Magluvin, I will respect the rules of this site and not continue this topic. If you pm  me, I will continue.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on January 30, 2019, 01:15:05 PM
Some times i find it so hard to believe that these days there are still those that have an imaginary friend during adulthood  :o

For those that say evolution is rubbish,and man had a creator,well you simply must be blind,or should i say--blinded by your belief-->and it is only a belief,not a scientific fact.

You insist that man was created some 6000 odd years ago,when it has been proven beyond doubt that that is simply rubbish.

Was Adam and Eve white,black,brown,red or yellow?
As they could not be all of the above,stand back and have a look at evolution of man-->evolution is the ability to change to suit your environment. We have this proof right here in australia,as well as many other nations of the world.
White skin men and women are from cooler nations,such as my ancestors were.
While the Aboriginal people that have been enduring our hot,dry country for over 20,000 years have dark/black skin.  This is evolution-->the ability to adapt to suit your environment.

Us humans now have the ability to make life--to clone existing life-->dose this make us GODs ?.
We can create materials from other raw material-->dose this make us GODs ?.

The bible tells us that the earth was created when?
Science shows us that the earth was created well before then.
Carbon dating tells us man was walking the earth long before the bible tells us GOD created man.
Then there are the good old dinosaurs--how long ago did they roam the earth ?

So,if there was Adam and Eve,and they then had children-->where did the third generation come from?.
Are we to believe that GOD put man in a position where incest was the only way forward--a GOD that shuns incest ?.

Then there is the Noah story.
Science and common sense tells us that there is not enough water on our planet to cover all land masses--not even when the polar ice all melts.
Science and engineering has proven that the arc could not have been as large as it needed to be to carry two of every animal,and stay together.
Man today cannot build a wooden boat that size without it breaking up.

Are we also happy to believe in a GOD that committed genocide against his own creation.
Your bible tells us that your GOD murdered millions of innocent men,women,and children--the ones that never got an invite to the arc. I can assure you that most that were murdered by this GOD were innocent of any wrong doing.
Millions of innocent animals--the ones that never got an invite to the arc
These are the parts of the stories that the believers like to leave out--cant have there GOD portrayed as the murderer he was.

I am not sure where the believers get there information that shows science proves GOD is real,or the bible represents fact,as science has proven time after time that the earth formed over millions of year from space dust,rocks,comets-and so on-just like every other solid planet in the universe.

We can see evolution right before our eyes,and yet still the believers say we were created by GOD.
Who then created this GOD ?.

So many war's,and so many abused children--all in the name of religion.

No thanks.'
I will remain with my feet firmly on the ground,and have nothing to do with this murderous,damaging religion BS.

Sorry if i offend anyone,but were are all entitled to our opinion-right?
Difference being,mine is backed by science and proof.

Brad
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: znel on January 30, 2019, 02:48:31 PM
Two cells got together in a mud puddle one day and decided to mess around.....

 They Created a perfect power supply to convert organics into energy, devised tissue that would expand and contract with electrical impulses attached to perfect levers.   Assumed it would be necessary to self replicate to perpetuate a species.... on and on...   

No matter how you look at it... God, evolution.. what ever belief pacifies your unanswered questions...  Initially some kind of intelligence was required. 

We live on a pebble in the middle of who knows what, we can only speculate the world we live in and most likely will never really know what, why, or where we exist... we only know for sure that we do... or do we?

Arguing over religions, Darwin or any other theory will only lead to more questions that can't be answered. 

Sprinkle a box of salt over a large table, spread them out so none of the grains are touching.   Choose one grain - we'll call this "earth".  There are 6 billion microbes on this grain, one of them is you...   The balance of the grains we see on the table is what we think we know of our universe.   What do we really know ?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 01, 2019, 04:08:25 PM
... Initially some kind of intelligence was required. 
...
No. It is precisely Darwin's intelligence to have shown that simple cause-and-effect relationships obeing the laws of physics can lead to complex systems found in the so-called living world.
Darwin's intelligence is unfortunately not within the reach of all human intelligence, evolution still has work to do!  ;D
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on February 01, 2019, 04:42:36 PM
No. It is precisely Darwin's intelligence to have shown that simple cause-and-effect relationships obeing the laws of physics can lead to complex systems found in the so-called living world.
Darwin's intelligence is unfortunately not within the reach of all human intelligence, evolution still has work to do!  ;D

Instead of blindly following the lies of main stream media why don't you do some original research of your own?  Darwin clearly says in his writings ( I have read them ) that he could not come up with any reasonable explanation for such complex organisms such as the eye.  There is no reasonable way to explain an eye using the idea that evolution occurred over a period of time with slow improvements.  The eye involves several mechanisms that all have to work together and without all of them the rest of them are useless.  So how could they have slowly evolved over time?  And by the way this is exactly the example Darwin himself used when he clearly stated he had doubts about his theory of evolution.  He also gave other examples of complex organisms that can't be explained by evolution.  And none  of the missing links he was hoping would be some day found have ever been found.  Every one of them that have supposedly been found have all been proven to be hoaxes.  If you would read the genetic study I referred to earlier it clearly shows genetic boundaries between species that rules out the possibility of evolution as imagined by Darwin.


Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 01, 2019, 06:01:16 PM
Carroll, you said that you wouldn't clutter this site with religion.
Your arguments are the standard " I can't explain it, I don't understand it, therefore God" it is called the argument from ignorance.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on February 01, 2019, 06:13:27 PM
My last post had nothing to do with God.  It was only about the myth of evolution.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 01, 2019, 06:16:46 PM
Thinly disguised.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 01, 2019, 10:23:55 PM
Instead of blindly following the lies of main stream media why don't you do some original research of your own?  Darwin clearly says in his writings ( I have read them ) that he could not come up with any reasonable explanation for such complex organisms such as the eye.  There is no reasonable way to explain an eye using the idea that evolution occurred over a period of time with slow improvements.  The eye involves several mechanisms that all have to work together and without all of them the rest of them are useless.  So how could they have slowly evolved over time?  And by the way this is exactly the example Darwin himself used when he clearly stated he had doubts about his theory of evolution.  He also gave other examples of complex organisms that can't be explained by evolution.  And none  of the missing links he was hoping would be some day found have ever been found.  Every one of them that have supposedly been found have all been proven to be hoaxes.  If you would read the genetic study I referred to earlier it clearly shows genetic boundaries between species that rules out the possibility of evolution as imagined by Darwin.


Respectfully,
Carroll

I do research, I also do what I want and certainly not what anyone advises me, based on his ignorance or his faith, and I am not following the "main stream" except when it has demonstrated his point, which is the case of Darwin, which is not the case of religious theories, and which is also the case of the theory of evolution which has progressed since the Darwin discovery: you seem to ignore it but since the 19th century, science of evolution has progressed and has confirmed the essential points from Darwin.

About Darwin, when you have solid objections expressed scientifically, neither ad hominem attacks nor childish and irrelevant remarks found everywhere among creationists (like this story of the eye that is perfectly explained today), thank you for coming back, we can talk.

Respectfully,
F6FLT
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 01, 2019, 10:47:01 PM
Carroll, you said that you wouldn't clutter this site with religion.
Your arguments are the standard " I can't explain it, I don't understand it, therefore God" it is called the argument from ignorance.

Good point! Believer and religious minds have always placed their divine mysteries and myths in the unknown. If they placed them in the known, they would obviously appeared as idiots, since in the known, there is no mystery!   :D

As science progresses, the unknown regresses and many superstitions have been eliminated, as the devil once saw by believers in epilepsy attacks. But the believer and religious minds have moved their mysteries elsewhere, into the remaining unknown, drawing no lessons from the past. They even try to create unknown to place more easily their superstitions, by fighting well established theories as this of the evolution, regardless of reason and facts. They are still the spearheads of obscurantism.

Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Floor on February 01, 2019, 11:14:48 PM
I don't understand why so many people feel that an evolutionary process in which life forms originate
or are changed, is seen as contradictory to creationism.
 
Couldn't creation occur through stages and processes..... or any other way, that "an all powerful god" wanted it to.?

btw
Modern understanding  of evolution doesn't say that humans descend  from apes, it says that both man and
ape have a common ancestry, and that all life on earth likely has a common ancestry.

Bible says, the universe was created in 6 days and on the seventh day god rested.
This seems to me, to be a symbolic or metaphorical statement. 
               because .............
How does one define a days worth of time (24 hours ?), before the earth was created ???

Science and reason, do not threaten my spirituality / religion.  They help inform them.

                            floor
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on February 02, 2019, 01:57:39 AM

About Darwin, when you have solid objections expressed scientifically, neither ad hominem attacks nor childish and irrelevant remarks found everywhere among creationists (like this story of the eye that is perfectly explained today), thank you for coming back, we can talk.

Respectfully,
F6FLT

Please provide a link or some source that can explain how the eye and sight could have evolved.  I WILL read it.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 02, 2019, 02:50:11 AM
Evolution explains an aspect of the world; even IF it were false or incomplete, that gap in our knowledge would not provide any evidence for a deity/deities.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 02, 2019, 11:57:31 AM
Please provide a link or some source that can explain how the eye and sight could have evolved.  I WILL read it.

Respectfully,
Carroll

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041030215105.htm
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on February 02, 2019, 02:03:35 PM
Sorry Francois,

But that article only shows that light sensitive cells in one organism are similar to light sensitive cells in another organism.  It does nothing to explain how the actual eye could have evolved with a lens, retina, the proper wiring in the brain to interpret the information from the retina and all the other actual working parts of an eye. 

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: fritznien on February 02, 2019, 10:17:57 PM
Sorry Francois,

But that article only shows that light sensitive cells in one organism are similar to light sensitive cells in another organism.  It does nothing to explain how the actual eye could have evolved with a lens, retina, the proper wiring in the brain to interpret the information from the retina and all the other actual working parts of an eye. 

Respectfully,
Carroll
give this a try, step by step changes to build an eye.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1iwLqM2t0
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 03, 2019, 11:45:41 AM
Reason is incompatible with faith.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: ramset on February 03, 2019, 02:39:49 PM
Politics ,Religion or sports
mix in Fellows ....and a brawl is soon to follow.
and here we are more diverse than most places .
my comments had nothing at all to do with religion ,for me
common sense ,perhaps I am just too much a simpleton

 as men we always try to make things better ,the universe has
had billions of years to make the "Best" eyes ears nose...etc..and NOWHERE can be found a single thing which lives forever.which IMO would be to build itself better than the last version
is this not the driving force behind evolution [the simple upgrade]

all this winning to survive ...just to loose the real battle??
nothing to do with religion at all...just paying attention @!!and wishing I could REALLY read this DNA language which we seem to have discovered...?
sigh...and I broke my own rule ...No politics religion or sports
 
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 03, 2019, 03:03:48 PM
IF a deity exists, I would expect it to do a much better job of 'designing' the universe. Ever noticed how hostile the world is to human life? How imperfect we are?
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: ramset on February 03, 2019, 03:11:08 PM
while I am not writing about religion or Deities
from a perspective of constant upgrades..... or evolution 
death stands out as odd IMO ...since here on this planet everything dies ??...well ...now that we discovered this DNA language ...maybe that will change ??

IF a deity exists, I would expect it to do a much better job of 'designing' the universe. Ever noticed how hostile the world is to human life? How imperfect we are?
Now you sound like you want a Heaven....hand out free lunches and the world stands still

 add some hunger or obstacles ....and the world thrives.
just one mans opinion.. from paying attention ...//

respectfully
// Chet
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 04, 2019, 02:04:53 PM
Sorry Francois,

But that article only shows that light sensitive cells in one organism are similar to light sensitive cells in another organism.  It does nothing to explain how the actual eye could have evolved with a lens, retina, the proper wiring in the brain to interpret the information from the retina and all the other actual working parts of an eye. 

Respectfully,
Carroll

Carroll

I don't understand as to why you think the eye could not evolve over millions of years.

We see animals today make complete transformations/evolve into something completely different.
Two examples would be
1-The tadpole evolving into a frog
2-The caterpillar evolving into a butterfly.
These two transformations happen within day's,so imagine what millions of years of evolution could do.

Read all about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye


Brad

Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Temporal Visitor on February 04, 2019, 02:43:11 PM
Evolution is theory built upon assumptions most of which cannot be tested, repeated, or proven by man or his "science" or "scientific method(s)".

As a theory it is a belief that requires faith and belief in the words and work(s) of other men. = An organized religion by DESIGN, one of willful ignorance without a Creator, making man and Earth insignificant in its scheme and leaving no IF about that fact. 

Organized religion = control of men by men. - As such it is another pill I choose not to swallow.

"No evidence of a deity/deities":  is not evidence or proof of the nonexistence of anything.
 
Moreover, to believe it is - may well be evidence of a "STRONG DELUSION", of which has been foretold in scripture long before the advent of anyone physically here today. A strong delusion sent for the willfully ignorant who are and WILL to be lost in the material world.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br0Mb-f2qaQ has a message in it, several in fact for any and all who care enough to take the time to read and ponder the meanings of the lyrics.

Then of course there is "science" and the certain "god's" of "science" who have by DESIGN played their bit parts to support the psuedoscientific theory of evolution with even more "pseudoscience" and "mathemagic", namely Einstein and his "theory of relativity" which IMO has been swallowed hook line and sinker by the masses.

Everybody believes they "know" the Earth is spinning and moving in space. A very interesting video 48 minutes long, well researched on the "pseudoscience" and "mathemagics" that is used to this day that makes the world move.

https://jeranism.com/how-einstein-made-the-earth-move-when-all-experiments-showed-it-didnt-move/

This video helps with the how, what and why they have been misled scientifically BY DESIGN.

https://jeranism.com/pseudoscience-earth-moves-or-earth-doesnt-move-einstein-earth-mover-summary/

IMHO the bottom line is: All anyone has is beliefs. In "the end" those beliefs WILL be THE EVIDENCE tested in the crucible of reality, not by chance, nor by the "science" of "Law" practiced by an ignorant insignificant little man in a black robe pretending to be a "Judge".

Search4truth with all your heart while you can, because surely love will find you in the end. https://youtu.be/nBJYxPN8qIA?t=64

People; all WILL "believe" what they WILL, always.


Michael
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 04, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
We don't just have 'beliefs' or 'faith'. We also have evidence based on observation and repeated experiments with predicted outcomes.
The word 'theory' (as in the theory of evolution) does not mean hypothesis, conjecture or similar meaning.
It means currently the BEST available model available, supported by all available evidence. The 'big bang theory' also fits that description. It may be incomplete or even proven wrong, but it is the best NOW.
Your bible does not have anything like that.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Magluvin on February 05, 2019, 03:10:31 AM
Hmm. Evolution of the eye...  For vision to have a beginning, and then evolve over and over again to be better and better. What intelligence guides that path? What is going on inside that being, which once was just a cell, I guess, that allows it to make consistently correct 'genetic' decisions for this to occur? Where did that intelligence come from to take the correct path for all these accomplishments of so called evolution? We today cant really program true artificial intelligence yet, but one can seem to say for sure that these beginning cells that started the evolutionary process with a form of intelligence to do all these evolutionary things, all by accident. lol.  Even us as humans, thinking we know it all there for we are settled in our ways, even if really what we believe can be based on just theories, cant yet make these decisions, and if we were to do so, we cannot do any better than what is said that so called evolution has accomplished.
Look at us.  lol. look at the level of robots these days. Here we are, humans that are trying to make fake humans and we are not there yet, but in our complex human architecture, or as I will say, design, what is going on inside us and every cell are things that many scientists do not fully understand yet.
Yet many think they have it all figured out and believe that there was no need for intelligence and design behind all that we are and where we are.
Some planets are just carbon and diamonds. Some have ammonia gas atmosphere, etc.  But here on earth, we seem to have a perfect balance of everything we could possibly need to survive and thrive and potentially do what ever our imaginations can come up with. Nothing a miss that I could think of. Yet many just give it up to just some freak accident.

Evolution is just someones thoughts about how it all began and had gotten till now, all with the soul point that their belief is that there is no God, and nobody created all this, without really knowing for sure at all.

I have story after story of why I believe in God. But those that oppose these beliefs will jut consider me to be untruthful and that I make it all up, and even the possibility that it was all just coincidental. They will lay claim that my God is imaginary, yet they will stand on the foundations of their imagined theories of how this all began instead, as if it is supposedly with no doubt that it is the better path. ::)
Mags


Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 05, 2019, 03:38:54 AM
 "But here on earth, we seem to have a perfect balance of everything we could possibly need to survive and thrive and potentially do what ever our imaginations can come up with. Nothing a miss" The world we live on is very hostile to any specific life.
Consider humans: most other life forms here are trying to kill us.
'a perfect balance" really? we humans survived and, to some extent, thrived IN SPITE OF, not BECAUSE OF the conditions here.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 05, 2019, 09:47:07 AM
 author=Magluvin link=topic=18121.msg531140#msg531140 date=1549332631]


Quote
Some planets are just carbon and diamonds. Some have ammonia gas atmosphere, etc.  But here on earth, we seem to have a perfect balance of everything we could possibly need to survive and thrive and potentially do what ever our imaginations can come up with. Nothing a miss that I could think of. Yet many just give it up to just some freak accident.

Lets look at this in a scientific manor.

In our galaxy alone there are an estimated 100 billion stars(suns),and an estimated 160 billion planets-->yes,160 billion.

Quote: Along the years, scientists have come up with what’s called the habitable zone, an area around a star’s orbit where favorable conditions for harboring life may exist. Now, after hundreds of potential Earth-like planets have been found, scientists have enough data at their disposal to elaborate a statistical hypothesis – there are billions of planets similar to Earth that might potentially support life in our galaxy alone!

So i would say Mag's that our planet is not some freak chance or a 1 of planet.
We are so very young when it comes to knowing what exist out there in our own galaxy,and there are between 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies out there.

There will exist planets where the life forms have far surpassed us in there evolutionary progress,and there will be planets where life is just beginning.

No one can claim that we are a 1 of planet,where everything is just right,as we have only just begun to look out into space to see what is out there,and in the short time we have been doing this,over 200 earth like planets have been found already.

Science has already proven that some of the stories in the bible are garbage,and simply cannot be done,or did not happen. The problem being,there are those here that believe in the bible,but also claim to believe in science as well. But we find that common sense and science gets pushed aside when it conflicts with there belief,hence the saying--blinded by belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4OhXQTMOEc

As i live in Australia,i can tell you with certainty that the Aboriginal people have lived here in Australia for over 47,000 years--maybe some one forgot to tell them there was a flood coming  :D

I would also add this-->there simply is not enough water to cover the earths surface.
It is good to see the younger generation actually using there common sense,and doing the math and science to get there answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QJ7yZ9L1po

This is just one of many occasions where science and math proves that both the ark and the flood never happened.

Was/is there some form of design going on-->yes,of course there is,and it is nature that is carrying out the improvements as time go's on. We see this all the time around us. Here is a perfect example of evolution in every day life.
Lets look at viruses. New ones seem to pop into existence all the time  ::)
So us humans come up with antivirus medicines to kill off this virus,only to find that the virus evolves,and our wonderful antivirus no longer has any effect in killing said virus-->as the virus evolved in order to survive in the environment it live in-->just as we have.

Evolution happens on a daily bases here on earth,and yet there are those that simply refuse to believe,due to it being in conflict with there belief's.



Brad
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 05, 2019, 09:52:28 AM
Evolution is theory built upon assumptions most of which cannot be tested, repeated, or proven by man or his "science" or "scientific method(s)".

As a theory it is a belief that requires faith and belief in the words and work(s) of other men. = An organized religion by DESIGN, one of willful ignorance without a Creator, making man and Earth insignificant in its scheme and leaving no IF about that fact. 

Organized religion = control of men by men. - As such it is another pill I choose not to swallow.

"No evidence of a deity/deities":  is not evidence or proof of the nonexistence of anything.
 
Moreover, to believe it is - may well be evidence of a "STRONG DELUSION", of which has been foretold in scripture long before the advent of anyone physically here today. A strong delusion sent for the willfully ignorant who are and WILL to be lost in the material world.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br0Mb-f2qaQ has a message in it, several in fact for any and all who care enough to take the time to read and ponder the meanings of the lyrics.

Then of course there is "science" and the certain "god's" of "science" who have by DESIGN played their bit parts to support the psuedoscientific theory of evolution with even more "pseudoscience" and "mathemagic", namely Einstein and his "theory of relativity" which IMO has been swallowed hook line and sinker by the masses.

Everybody believes they "know" the Earth is spinning and moving in space. A very interesting video 48 minutes long, well researched on the "pseudoscience" and "mathemagics" that is used to this day that makes the world move.

https://jeranism.com/how-einstein-made-the-earth-move-when-all-experiments-showed-it-didnt-move/

This video helps with the how, what and why they have been misled scientifically BY DESIGN.

https://jeranism.com/pseudoscience-earth-moves-or-earth-doesnt-move-einstein-earth-mover-summary/

IMHO the bottom line is: All anyone has is beliefs. In "the end" those beliefs WILL be THE EVIDENCE tested in the crucible of reality, not by chance, nor by the "science" of "Law" practiced by an ignorant insignificant little man in a black robe pretending to be a "Judge".

Search4truth with all your heart while you can, because surely love will find you in the end. https://youtu.be/nBJYxPN8qIA?t=64

People; all WILL "believe" what they WILL, always.


Michael

Never read so much garbage in one post.  ::)
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Magluvin on February 06, 2019, 02:48:12 AM
author=Magluvin link=topic=18121.msg531140#msg531140 date=1549332631]


Lets look at this in a scientific manor.

In our galaxy alone there are an estimated 100 billion stars(suns),and an estimated 160 billion planets-->yes,160 billion.

Quote: Along the years, scientists have come up with what’s called the habitable zone, an area around a star’s orbit where favorable conditions for harboring life may exist. Now, after hundreds of potential Earth-like planets have been found, scientists have enough data at their disposal to elaborate a statistical hypothesis – there are billions of planets similar to Earth that might potentially support life in our galaxy alone!

So i would say Mag's that our planet is not some freak chance or a 1 of planet.
We are so very young when it comes to knowing what exist out there in our own galaxy,and there are between 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies out there.

There will exist planets where the life forms have far surpassed us in there evolutionary progress,and there will be planets where life is just beginning.

No one can claim that we are a 1 of planet,where everything is just right,as we have only just begun to look out into space to see what is out there,and in the short time we have been doing this,over 200 earth like planets have been found already.

Science has already proven that some of the stories in the bible are garbage,and simply cannot be done,or did not happen. The problem being,there are those here that believe in the bible,but also claim to believe in science as well. But we find that common sense and science gets pushed aside when it conflicts with there belief,hence the saying--blinded by belief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4OhXQTMOEc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4OhXQTMOEc)

As i live in Australia,i can tell you with certainty that the Aboriginal people have lived here in Australia for over 47,000 years--maybe some one forgot to tell them there was a flood coming  :D

I would also add this-->there simply is not enough water to cover the earths surface.
It is good to see the younger generation actually using there common sense,and doing the math and science to get there answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QJ7yZ9L1po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QJ7yZ9L1po)

This is just one of many occasions where science and math proves that both the ark and the flood never happened.

Was/is there some form of design going on-->yes,of course there is,and it is nature that is carrying out the improvements as time go's on. We see this all the time around us. Here is a perfect example of evolution in every day life.
Lets look at viruses. New ones seem to pop into existence all the time  ::)
So us humans come up with antivirus medicines to kill off this virus,only to find that the virus evolves,and our wonderful antivirus no longer has any effect in killing said virus-->as the virus evolved in order to survive in the environment it live in-->just as we have.

Evolution happens on a daily bases here on earth,and yet there are those that simply refuse to believe,due to it being in conflict with there belief's.



Brad
"So i would say Mag's that our planet is not some freak chance or a 1 of planet."""
I believe very possibly that there are other planets with life.  I cannot say for sure. But the Bible does talk about other are watching us to see how this all plays out, as God is the only one that knows.

"There will exist planets where the life forms have far surpassed us in there evolutionary progress,and there will be planets where life is just beginning."""
Have you seen them? Sorry Brad, and lets just keep it in debate mode, but for me to take what you said there as fact, is probably as hard for me to believe as it is for you to believe in my faith. I had a friend that when we discussed these things, he rejected God and the Bible and said we were put here by aliens. I Asked him for reference on such facts, and he had none. Where did he obtain such a solid conviction, yet cannot explain nor prove what he believes? Many are easily pulled to 1 or another belief, and many without even really digging in to find the truth about any of it and just simply accepting someone else's ways.

Ya know, history does show that the Jews were wandering for a very long time without a homeland to be. But they got at least a part of what was theirs back in the 40s. And way back, the Bible tells us that they would get their land back and will never loose it again. It says at that point, that will be the last generation. So that and so much more that we could have only figured out in the last hundred yrs or so because there are many things happening now that brings sense to what we couldnt understand before, are the hints that we very may well be witness to these end events.


"No one can claim that we are a 1 of planet,where everything is just right"""
So do you agree with me that pretty much here on earth everything is just right? I mean, sure there are the good and the bad, but were making our way, basically due to 'intelligence' and free will, with some ignorance. Magman seems to make earth and how it is, a deplorable place to be.  If so, then dang, how could have that first single cell, developed in an evolutionary beginning, have survived such a treacherous place and even have the time to 'think' of how to eat, breathe, split into more cells and manage everyday life??  For me, that never happened.


"Science has already proven that some of the stories in the bible are garbage,and simply cannot be done,or did not happen. The problem being,there are those here that believe in the bible,but also claim to believe in science as well. But we find that common sense and science gets pushed aside when it conflicts with there belief,hence the saying--blinded by belief."""
I just went to yahoo and searched  'Science proves the bible'   not with 'wrong' nor 'right' to see what it comes up with....https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=comodo&hsimp=yhs-icedragon&type=25050004003_id_ds&p=science+proves+bible (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=comodo&hsimp=yhs-icedragon&type=25050004003_id_ds&p=science+proves+bible)
So you just saying all science disproves the Bible is not fact.

"I would also add this-->there simply is not enough water to cover the earths surface.
It is good to see the younger generation actually using there common sense,and doing the math and science to get there answers."""
So if there is a God, it still could not happen? ;D ???

"Was/is there some form of design going on-->yes,of course there is,and it is nature that is carrying out the improvements as time go's on. We see this all the time around us. Here is a perfect example of evolution in every day life."""
Ah. So 'nature' is the genius of it all?  How does that work exactly?  Sorry, but... Form of design, by nature? Nature is out there carrying out improvements?? ??? Then why is it so easy to believe that, yet not believe in a creator, and instead of calling it nature, call him God?  You know how long it would take someone to really study all forms of religion and finally make a choice of one or none in the end? Many may give it a go at 1, and not even delve deep. Many just dont want to be bothered as other things are more important to them. In all that, I can see how some can be turned off by some or even all things about a religion they were involved in. Many are false and use the Bible to enrich themselves. But its not all like that. Definitely not.


"Lets look at viruses. New ones seem to pop into existence all the time """
What if I told you that I believe that a lot of things as such, are not brought about by your natures way. There is a lot of info, that especially in the last 100yrs that these things are made and used by bad people to hurt populations. Even the food is being changed and the chemicals that are all around us whether it is the new smell of a car to the new mattress you sleep in, even the gmo cotton your clothes are made of, let alone household chems, fumes from cars, especially deisel(everyone should read up on that).

"Evolution happens on a daily bases here on earth,and yet there are those that simply refuse to believe,due to it being in conflict with there belief's."
It has all been made this way to give us free will to choose what we wish when it comes to belief. You are settled into what you believe, and so am I.""
Mags
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: Temporal Visitor on February 06, 2019, 07:47:26 PM
We don't just have 'beliefs' or 'faith'. We also have evidence based on observation and repeated experiments with predicted outcomes.
The word 'theory' (as in the theory of evolution) does not mean hypothesis, conjecture or similar meaning.
It means currently the BEST available model available, supported by all available evidence. The 'big bang theory' also fits that description. It may be incomplete or even proven wrong, but it is the best NOW.
Your bible does not have anything like that.

Thanks for your response,

"We don't just have 'beliefs' or 'faith'. We also have evidence based on observation and repeated experiments with predicted outcomes."

Curiously you write "we" when in the past you have written about yourself having and being engaged to speak to others about applying critical thinking skills. It looks like you believe that being part of a/that group that thinks and believes the same will somehow strengthen your position/argument.

Most definitely you as an individual may/will believe similarly to the group since you have freely chosen to be one OF, and with that group by your own WILL. (Not knocking you, or your belief and choice to be OF that group.)

Most definitely the group has evidence, and has done repeated experiments that reaches predicted outcomes, all of which was done by individual people who each have/had a predisposition and bias that influences their objectivity and findings to some degree no matter how hard they try to put it aside.

You wrote: "The word 'theory' (as in the theory of evolution) does not mean hypothesis, conjecture or similar meaning."

I am well aware of the meaning and choose my words with great care to be precise in attempting to convey my own critical thinking abilities.

You wrote: "It means currently the BEST available model available, supported by all available evidence."
None of which makes evolution a fact.

Thinking critically; It is the best model a group of like minded people have put together to allow themselves as individuals to justify/explain their existence and rule out a creator by their own free will. A logical fallacy understood to be the bandwagon. ("Sad hearts they hide living in their empty shells") Getting on the bandwagon requires an intelligent conscious being to first make a choice, decision and act on their own belief(s).

Moreover; "supported by all available evidence." that fits their own objective(s) and rejects ALL evidence that does not.

The truth is that neither you or myself have real evidence of "evolution" at all. No one alive on Earth today does because no one has ever observed it actually happen and that is a fact. The "missing links" remain nowhere to be found despite the ongoing well funded efforts of the best and brightest people in their respective fields does not help support the theory in the least. Much of the evidence that was accepted to be real early on has been proven to be fraudulent over the years, that surely does not validate the theory either.   

You wrote: "The 'big bang theory' also fits that description. It may be incomplete or even proven wrong, but it is the best NOW."
They both come from the same group, both suffer in the same way: they are not FACTS and they are merely "theories" that rely upon people that may or may not even know a thing about either of them and ACCEPTING them as fact because the rest of the crowd says it was/is so.

Both the evolution and big bang theories are sacred cows of the religion of "scientism".

Here is an excerpt from another mans take on both of these theories. He does a good job.

"The Claims of the Theory of Evolution Are a Complete Violation of Reason and Logic

According to the unscientific and irrational claim of the theory of evolution, the nothingness in the infinite universe gradually gave rise to mankind as a result of chance developments. According to this utterly unbelievable theory, first dust, then soil, stones, waters, mountains and oceans came spontaneously into being in this nothingness devoid of anything of the sort. Later, certain atoms in the mixtures of these came together by chance and brought into being such elements as calcium, phosphorus and carbon. Over millions of years these lifeless elements, completely lacking in intellect, memory, knowledge and consciousness, turned into human beings able to breathe, speak, think, rejoice and mourn, possessed of a soul and memory, with the intelligence, knowledge and consciousness necessary to invent things, and capable of writing libraries full of books. In other words, under the effects of coincidence over billions of years, accumulations of dust, soil and mud turned into human beings of flesh, blood and soul, capable of building extraordinary factories and producing the latest model of cars in them, of establishing space stations, of constructing palaces, and making marvels of art. To believe that stone and soil could one day turn into human beings as the result of chance is even more irrational and illogical than believing in fairy tales. Not even children would believe such a tale.

If evolutionists are sincere in these claims of theirs, then according to those claims there should be no reason why this so-called evolution should not happen again. They could go, for instance, to the largest swamp in the world and expect to see a palace built there billions of years later. Let them sit by that swamp and see whether a human being to build palaces will emerge from the rocks, stones and mud there. Will even a single living cell come into being, let alone a human being? In order to help coincidences along, let them even fill the swamp up with as much carbon, phosphorus, nitrogen, iron, magnesium and oxygen necessary for a living cell.

It will be absolutely out of the question for a single living cell to emerge spontaneously from there. Even a single living cell is extraordinarily complex, containing; power stations to produce energy; factories that produce the enzymes and hormones essential for life; a data bank containing information regarding all the products to be produced; complex transportation systems to carry raw materials and products from one region to another; pipelines; advanced laboratories and refineries to break down the raw materials brought in from outside into useful components; and specialized cell membrane proteins that control the entry into and departure from the cell of various substances. This is the most simple and superficial description of a cell. Just one single feature of the cell is sufficiently complex and magnificent to fill many volumes.

Could chance produce such an organized system from that mud? Can chance make that smallest organized system increasingly complex and produce an entity such as a human being? Can chance teach a monkey to speak, to make compliments, to think, to build palaces, to found civilizations and nations, to build ships and discover continents, to set up laboratories or to perform experiments by investigating the cells that comprise them? What coincidence can endow an ape with a soul? The answer to each one of these questions is very clear and definite: chance can produce neither a human being nor the cell, the smallest component thereof.

Since evolutionists believe in this impossibility, then let them take a suitable amount of mud and wait for it to construct palaces, produce the latest model Jaguar, or build bridges. Let them wait for that mud to produce, spontaneously, first a single cell, then amoeba, fish, lizards, horses, apes and finally human beings. Then let them watch those human beings design cars, make discoveries and found civilizations. In fact, even the most dyed in the wool evolutionist knows this can never happen, but they imagine that by making this claim together with Latin terms and a weighty style it somehow becomes credible.

To believe that all the living things we see on Earth, the flowers with their matchless beauty, fruits, flavors, butterflies, gazelles, rabbits, panthers, birds, and billions of human beings with their different appearances, the cities built by these human beings, the buildings they construct, and bridges all came about by chance from a collection of mud, means taking leave of one's senses. The fact that large numbers of people believe in such nonsense in no way legitimizes it; on the contrary, it shows that we are looking at a miracle. A miracle took place 150 years ago, when an old man with an amateur interest in biology began to bring a huge mass of people under his influence with the senseless ideas he produced from his imagination during a sea voyage. The fact that so many people were taken in by these nonsensical claims like a spell is a great miracle of God. In the Qur'an God reveals that some people will believe in the impossible and be taken in by nonsense, though they will be unaware of the fact."
excerpted from https://www.harunyahya.com/en/Articles/4314/the-theory-of-evolution-a


You as a thinking intelligent conscious being get to decide for yourself what is true and what is an ILLusion.
Belief that requires faith and belief in the words and work(s) of other men in my mind is highly suspect and subject to closer inspection.

I have yet to meet anyone who could truthfully testify with firsthand personal knowledge as to the validity of either theory, including any expert.

The very "best NOW" still only amounts to HEARSAY at best, and isn't good enough to survive my close inspection.
 
This was not meant to be "a wall of text". Please consider watching the videos that were posted above if you haven't.

Lastly: It is not "my" Bible, it is yours to accept or reject with your own free will.

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: F6FLT on February 07, 2019, 11:30:43 AM
"We don't just have 'beliefs' or 'faith'. We also have evidence based on observation and repeated experiments with predicted outcomes."

That's right but incomprehensible to a religious mind.

If there are far fewer believers in academia, if there are fewer and fewer believers as we move up the intellectual ladder, and if we see people attacking theories as well established as this of evolution (https://www.livescience.com/474-controversy-evolution-works.html), it is because they are preachers who have responded positively to this call (https://www.irreligion.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Screen-shot-2011-06-06-at-8.33.30-PM.png).
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: citfta on February 07, 2019, 01:02:36 PM
It has been interesting reading this thread.  I have presented several example of scientific evidence against the myth of evolution.  But all of them have been ignored as the believers in the myth insist that not believing in evolution is based only on belief and not proof.  But the truth is there is much more evidence against evolution than for it. The DNA evidence proves evolution is not possible.  The mathematics proves evolution is not possible.  But that is not evidence is being ignored.


I personally for many years believed in the myth of evolution.  That was what I was taught and I believed it.  Then in the mid 1970s my wife and I were on vacation when a hurricane came in from gulf and brought very heavy rain for several days to the area we were staying.  We went to the local library and got some books to read.  I found a book written by a scientist (not a creationist)  who had investigated the claims so evolution.

When I read that book I was amazed at all the false things I had been taught.  And all the science I have seen since has also backed up the information I read there.  For instance evolutionists claim it takes millions of years for fossils to become fossils.  Well there have already been fossils uncovered from the area of Mt. St. Helen that were created in the few short years since Mt. St. Helen blew up.

I could easily spend a couple of pages writing about all the false information put out by the believers in evolution.  But very few would listen.  But a belief that evolution is impossible is not JUST based on belief in a creator.  It is also solidly based on science.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: memoryman on February 07, 2019, 07:12:36 PM
I personally do not want to spend the time on emails or forum posts debating religion or flat earth (very similar).
As I prefer the immediate feedback of the debater, selectively in person, via skype or by phone.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 08, 2019, 08:29:50 AM
"So i would say Mag's that our planet is not some freak chance or a 1 of planet."""
I believe very possibly that there are other planets with life.  I cannot say for sure. But the Bible does talk about other are watching us to see how this all plays out, as God is the only one that knows.

"There will exist planets where the life forms have far surpassed us in there evolutionary progress,and there will be planets where life is just beginning."""
Have you seen them? Sorry Brad, and lets just keep it in debate mode, but for me to take what you said there as fact, is probably as hard for me to believe as it is for you to believe in my faith. I had a friend that when we discussed these things, he rejected God and the Bible and said we were put here by aliens. I Asked him for reference on such facts, and he had none. Where did he obtain such a solid conviction, yet cannot explain nor prove what he believes? Many are easily pulled to 1 or another belief, and many without even really digging in to find the truth about any of it and just simply accepting someone else's ways.

Ya know, history does show that the Jews were wandering for a very long time without a homeland to be. But they got at least a part of what was theirs back in the 40s. And way back, the Bible tells us that they would get their land back and will never loose it again. It says at that point, that will be the last generation. So that and so much more that we could have only figured out in the last hundred yrs or so because there are many things happening now that brings sense to what we couldnt understand before, are the hints that we very may well be witness to these end events.


"No one can claim that we are a 1 of planet,where everything is just right"""
So do you agree with me that pretty much here on earth everything is just right? I mean, sure there are the good and the bad, but were making our way, basically due to 'intelligence' and free will, with some ignorance. Magman seems to make earth and how it is, a deplorable place to be.  If so, then dang, how could have that first single cell, developed in an evolutionary beginning, have survived such a treacherous place and even have the time to 'think' of how to eat, breathe, split into more cells and manage everyday life??  For me, that never happened.


"Science has already proven that some of the stories in the bible are garbage,and simply cannot be done,or did not happen. The problem being,there are those here that believe in the bible,but also claim to believe in science as well. But we find that common sense and science gets pushed aside when it conflicts with there belief,hence the saying--blinded by belief."""
I just went to yahoo and searched  'Science proves the bible'   not with 'wrong' nor 'right' to see what it comes up with....https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=comodo&hsimp=yhs-icedragon&type=25050004003_id_ds&p=science+proves+bible (https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=comodo&hsimp=yhs-icedragon&type=25050004003_id_ds&p=science+proves+bible)
So you just saying all science disproves the Bible is not fact.

"I would also add this-->there simply is not enough water to cover the earths surface.
It is good to see the younger generation actually using there common sense,and doing the math and science to get there answers."""
So if there is a God, it still could not happen? ;D ???

"Was/is there some form of design going on-->yes,of course there is,and it is nature that is carrying out the improvements as time go's on. We see this all the time around us. Here is a perfect example of evolution in every day life."""
Ah. So 'nature' is the genius of it all?  How does that work exactly?  Sorry, but... Form of design, by nature? Nature is out there carrying out improvements?? ??? Then why is it so easy to believe that, yet not believe in a creator, and instead of calling it nature, call him God?  You know how long it would take someone to really study all forms of religion and finally make a choice of one or none in the end? Many may give it a go at 1, and not even delve deep. Many just dont want to be bothered as other things are more important to them. In all that, I can see how some can be turned off by some or even all things about a religion they were involved in. Many are false and use the Bible to enrich themselves. But its not all like that. Definitely not.


"Lets look at viruses. New ones seem to pop into existence all the time """
What if I told you that I believe that a lot of things as such, are not brought about by your natures way. There is a lot of info, that especially in the last 100yrs that these things are made and used by bad people to hurt populations. Even the food is being changed and the chemicals that are all around us whether it is the new smell of a car to the new mattress you sleep in, even the gmo cotton your clothes are made of, let alone household chems, fumes from cars, especially deisel(everyone should read up on that).

"Evolution happens on a daily bases here on earth,and yet there are those that simply refuse to believe,due to it being in conflict with there belief's."
It has all been made this way to give us free will to choose what we wish when it comes to belief. You are settled into what you believe, and so am I.""
Mags

I will ask this one simple question mags--do you believe in UFOs and alian life on other planets ?.


Brad
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 08, 2019, 08:40:32 AM
Thanks for your response,

"We don't just have 'beliefs' or 'faith'. We also have evidence based on observation and repeated experiments with predicted outcomes."

Curiously you write "we" when in the past you have written about yourself having and being engaged to speak to others about applying critical thinking skills. It looks like you believe that being part of a/that group that thinks and believes the same will somehow strengthen your position/argument.

Most definitely you as an individual may/will believe similarly to the group since you have freely chosen to be one OF, and with that group by your own WILL. (Not knocking you, or your belief and choice to be OF that group.)

Most definitely the group has evidence, and has done repeated experiments that reaches predicted outcomes, all of which was done by individual people who each have/had a predisposition and bias that influences their objectivity and findings to some degree no matter how hard they try to put it aside.

You wrote: "The word 'theory' (as in the theory of evolution) does not mean hypothesis, conjecture or similar meaning."

I am well aware of the meaning and choose my words with great care to be precise in attempting to convey my own critical thinking abilities.

You wrote: "It means currently the BEST available model available, supported by all available evidence."
None of which makes evolution a fact.

Thinking critically; It is the best model a group of like minded people have put together to allow themselves as individuals to justify/explain their existence and rule out a creator by their own free will. A logical fallacy understood to be the bandwagon. ("Sad hearts they hide living in their empty shells") Getting on the bandwagon requires an intelligent conscious being to first make a choice, decision and act on their own belief(s).

Moreover; "supported by all available evidence." that fits their own objective(s) and rejects ALL evidence that does not.

The truth is that neither you or myself have real evidence of "evolution" at all. No one alive on Earth today does because no one has ever observed it actually happen and that is a fact. The "missing links" remain nowhere to be found despite the ongoing well funded efforts of the best and brightest people in their respective fields does not help support the theory in the least. Much of the evidence that was accepted to be real early on has been proven to be fraudulent over the years, that surely does not validate the theory either.   

You wrote: "The 'big bang theory' also fits that description. It may be incomplete or even proven wrong, but it is the best NOW."
They both come from the same group, both suffer in the same way: they are not FACTS and they are merely "theories" that rely upon people that may or may not even know a thing about either of them and ACCEPTING them as fact because the rest of the crowd says it was/is so.

Both the evolution and big bang theories are sacred cows of the religion of "scientism".

Here is an excerpt from another mans take on both of these theories. He does a good job.

"The Claims of the Theory of Evolution Are a Complete Violation of Reason and Logic

According to the unscientific and irrational claim of the theory of evolution, the nothingness in the infinite universe gradually gave rise to mankind as a result of chance developments. According to this utterly unbelievable theory, first dust, then soil, stones, waters, mountains and oceans came spontaneously into being in this nothingness devoid of anything of the sort. Later, certain atoms in the mixtures of these came together by chance and brought into being such elements as calcium, phosphorus and carbon. Over millions of years these lifeless elements, completely lacking in intellect, memory, knowledge and consciousness, turned into human beings able to breathe, speak, think, rejoice and mourn, possessed of a soul and memory, with the intelligence, knowledge and consciousness necessary to invent things, and capable of writing libraries full of books. In other words, under the effects of coincidence over billions of years, accumulations of dust, soil and mud turned into human beings of flesh, blood and soul, capable of building extraordinary factories and producing the latest model of cars in them, of establishing space stations, of constructing palaces, and making marvels of art. To believe that stone and soil could one day turn into human beings as the result of chance is even more irrational and illogical than believing in fairy tales. Not even children would believe such a tale.

If evolutionists are sincere in these claims of theirs, then according to those claims there should be no reason why this so-called evolution should not happen again. They could go, for instance, to the largest swamp in the world and expect to see a palace built there billions of years later. Let them sit by that swamp and see whether a human being to build palaces will emerge from the rocks, stones and mud there. Will even a single living cell come into being, let alone a human being? In order to help coincidences along, let them even fill the swamp up with as much carbon, phosphorus, nitrogen, iron, magnesium and oxygen necessary for a living cell.

It will be absolutely out of the question for a single living cell to emerge spontaneously from there. Even a single living cell is extraordinarily complex, containing; power stations to produce energy; factories that produce the enzymes and hormones essential for life; a data bank containing information regarding all the products to be produced; complex transportation systems to carry raw materials and products from one region to another; pipelines; advanced laboratories and refineries to break down the raw materials brought in from outside into useful components; and specialized cell membrane proteins that control the entry into and departure from the cell of various substances. This is the most simple and superficial description of a cell. Just one single feature of the cell is sufficiently complex and magnificent to fill many volumes.

Could chance produce such an organized system from that mud? Can chance make that smallest organized system increasingly complex and produce an entity such as a human being? Can chance teach a monkey to speak, to make compliments, to think, to build palaces, to found civilizations and nations, to build ships and discover continents, to set up laboratories or to perform experiments by investigating the cells that comprise them? What coincidence can endow an ape with a soul? The answer to each one of these questions is very clear and definite: chance can produce neither a human being nor the cell, the smallest component thereof.

Since evolutionists believe in this impossibility, then let them take a suitable amount of mud and wait for it to construct palaces, produce the latest model Jaguar, or build bridges. Let them wait for that mud to produce, spontaneously, first a single cell, then amoeba, fish, lizards, horses, apes and finally human beings. Then let them watch those human beings design cars, make discoveries and found civilizations. In fact, even the most dyed in the wool evolutionist knows this can never happen, but they imagine that by making this claim together with Latin terms and a weighty style it somehow becomes credible.

To believe that all the living things we see on Earth, the flowers with their matchless beauty, fruits, flavors, butterflies, gazelles, rabbits, panthers, birds, and billions of human beings with their different appearances, the cities built by these human beings, the buildings they construct, and bridges all came about by chance from a collection of mud, means taking leave of one's senses. The fact that large numbers of people believe in such nonsense in no way legitimizes it; on the contrary, it shows that we are looking at a miracle. A miracle took place 150 years ago, when an old man with an amateur interest in biology began to bring a huge mass of people under his influence with the senseless ideas he produced from his imagination during a sea voyage. The fact that so many people were taken in by these nonsensical claims like a spell is a great miracle of God. In the Qur'an God reveals that some people will believe in the impossible and be taken in by nonsense, though they will be unaware of the fact."
excerpted from https://www.harunyahya.com/en/Articles/4314/the-theory-of-evolution-a


You as a thinking intelligent conscious being get to decide for yourself what is true and what is an ILLusion.
Belief that requires faith and belief in the words and work(s) of other men in my mind is highly suspect and subject to closer inspection.

I have yet to meet anyone who could truthfully testify with firsthand personal knowledge as to the validity of either theory, including any expert.

The very "best NOW" still only amounts to HEARSAY at best, and isn't good enough to survive my close inspection.
 
This was not meant to be "a wall of text". Please consider watching the videos that were posted above if you haven't.

Lastly: It is not "my" Bible, it is yours to accept or reject with your own free will.

Best regards,

Michael

And yet a single dry lifeless seed that has been kept in a sealed bag for years on end, is placed into the earth,where from the earth and water mix springs a living entity,that will grow tall and strong,and come to bare fruit which man may consume.


Brad
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 08, 2019, 08:45:32 AM
It has been interesting reading this thread.  I have presented several example of scientific evidence against the myth of evolution.  But all of them have been ignored as the believers in the myth insist that not believing in evolution is based only on belief and not proof.  But the truth is there is much more evidence against evolution than for it. The DNA evidence proves evolution is not possible.  The mathematics proves evolution is not possible.  But that is not evidence is being ignored.


I personally for many years believed in the myth of evolution.  That was what I was taught and I believed it.  Then in the mid 1970s my wife and I were on vacation when a hurricane came in from gulf and brought very heavy rain for several days to the area we were staying.  We went to the local library and got some books to read.  I found a book written by a scientist (not a creationist)  who had investigated the claims so evolution.

When I read that book I was amazed at all the false things I had been taught.  And all the science I have seen since has also backed up the information I read there.  For instance evolutionists claim it takes millions of years for fossils to become fossils.  Well there have already been fossils uncovered from the area of Mt. St. Helen that were created in the few short years since Mt. St. Helen blew up.

I could easily spend a couple of pages writing about all the false information put out by the believers in evolution.  But very few would listen.  But a belief that evolution is impossible is not JUST based on belief in a creator.  It is also solidly based on science.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Deleted.
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: tinman on February 08, 2019, 11:01:17 AM
OK,well im bailing out of the !GOD! debate.
Im simply not prepared to loose friends(such as Mags and Carroll) over a difference in beliefs.

If i offended anyone over what i believe to be true,then i apologise .


Brad
Title: Re: A very easy method for overunity and its the real deal as they say.
Post by: ramset on February 08, 2019, 03:52:04 PM
I was told by a very wise fellow
 politics [countrys Gov'ts] , religion ,or sports .sure to make a brawl between men  .none of those fit into the theme of this international forum
there are plenty of forums for those discussions.


we have common goals , perhaps focusing on those and the forum theme is a good idea.

as Tinman says ...while we are still feeling friendly...
respectfully
  Chet
 Ps I post this below because I need to read it sometimes and it helps me thru the hard times here
 I don't post it to be condescending