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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 07:21:06 PM

Title: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 07:21:06 PM
After many years of working free energy ideas  I  finally found a way to construct a all magnet gravity powered motor.   It's unlike anything ever seen before and so simple and inexpensive to produce.
A fifth grader can make one easily.  I have not patented it yet but my question to you is what it's worth to you??
Rather than go through a lengthy patent procedure I would like to find someone to buy me out.


I will only show basic plans to those interested in buying me out and after they see them the only thing they will say is --  Why did I not think of that first??
Take note:  THIS IS NO SCAM!!   It's a real deal.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 10, 2019, 08:24:26 PM
Sir["Tom ??"]
If you could give an example of the work it can do ?
here in these pages there are persons who have long standing financial commitments to experimenters willing to open source a true FE technology .
that is to say... to financially compensate persons such as yourself [thru Angel donors .

this is of course not unlimited funds [a Public crowd funding could be done here too ?

but first things first ...What'll it do and how does it do it [with out disclosing your secret


respectfully
Chet




Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 08:47:04 PM
First the motor can be scaled up to whatever size is needed.  It looks like a drum spinning on its center rod axis with a external magnet powering gravity components inside the drum which will be hidden from view.
The external magnet can be hand held or mounted close to the drum for proper continuous operation.
Place the external magnet on the other side of the drum reverses the direction the drum will rotate.
This is not a free energy, overunity, or perpetual motion motor.  As long as the neo or alnico magnets have power the motor will work.    At best it should last 100 years if the magnets are not heated way above room temperature??  "" GRAVITY "" makes it work.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 10, 2019, 08:55:14 PM
So it spins itself and also does work ?not to be nit picky ,your prototype is approx how big and weighs about how much ?and can do what [in Watts output  or pounds of lift ??and is the work performed continuous with no reloading or consumables [just magnets and gravity 

also How much funding would you need ?for clarity funding would require an Open source agreement

Thanks...
Chet
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 09:05:14 PM
I am on vacation right now but will post a late February video showing a working model and all round it including the underside of the table it's on.   Later I will show the model with gear tracks all around it so power can be picked of by mechanical means.  Will also tell the models weight
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 09:17:32 PM
With regards to Open source agreement this means I will have to tell all about the motor to everyone which I will not do.  Only someone buying me out.  Once they see how simple it is to make and inexpensive the cats out of the bag.   Who in particular is interested and if so what's it worth to you so far??  All I can say this is a real deal and no scam!!
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 10, 2019, 09:45:13 PM
Key words "buy out"
once that happens its not yours anymore [don't mean to be a wise guy just stating this for Clarity].and here the "buy out" is completely contingent on it being open sourced [Angel Donor's requirement].
so I don't see any conflict ?
a win win for you and the planet !
I truly hope you've done it this time  :)

// and nothing could be more passive than magnets and Gravity [hard to outlaw against or charge with theft as others here worry about for ambient harvesters [alleged grid stealing claims with "other" techs


\ respectfully..
ChetKremens@Gmail.com
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 10, 2019, 11:21:08 PM
After 40 years of trying this and that experimenting for something that can last a persons lifetime I found the answer.  Depending on my mood I might just dismantle the motor in my video and show the simplicity of its insides after I show it working.    Then the cat will be out of the bag and the price of magnets will skyrocket in the future.  So by buying any permanent magnet stock now you can make a fortune.  Gravity will cost you nothing.  My single wish is to go on public record as being the inventor of this motor. 


Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Acca on January 10, 2019, 11:58:00 PM
Magnetman your invention has been now in the public hands now for the last 50 years,  and so only the "dogma educated" humans are NOT going to give you that right, but to frighten you so much that you will be running to hide..


Suggestion is you keep it in the family...As it's a big deal to greedy one (s) out there..


I will post you a private clip for you as to show you in fact that it is really real...So long..


Acca...


Ps I have been in magnetics now for 50 years too.. I have shown that magnets are really "strange things"..
power is  huge.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 11, 2019, 12:00:22 AM
well I personally have a strong appreciation for an inventor who wishes to lead by example and open source to the world .and I know that the Angel donors have a very strong conviction to Honor the inventor and give back to his legacy the funds to do as he wishes ,either to continue and advance the work [teach and mentor] or Just enjoy Life.
Gravity and magnets...a more passive device would be hard to imagine .
40 years...thats a long time to stay the course.

 
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 11, 2019, 12:45:36 AM
Hello magnetman,
http://license.umn.edu/technologies/20120016_iron-nitride-permanent-magnet-alternative-to-rare-earth-and-neodymium-magnets
and c-Fe16N2 will give the skyrocket not much " moon-price"-potential,
 estimated production to market price : 10$/Kg.
An overview about the several " energy exploring and converting devices" international gives a production price max. of 0,01 €/KWh.( Electric, mgnetomotive,Wind/Solar/Water,Hydrogen, .....).
It is ever good to have multiple decision alternatives, let us not depend from one material source only !

Sincerely
OCWL
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 11, 2019, 07:50:22 PM
After many years of working free energy ideas  I  finally found a way to construct a all magnet gravity powered motor.   It's unlike anything ever seen before and so simple and inexpensive to produce.
A fifth grader can make one easily.  I have not patented it yet but my question to you is what it's worth to you??
Rather than go through a lengthy patent procedure I would like to find someone to buy me out.


I will only show basic plans to those interested in buying me out and after they see them the only thing they will say is --  Why did I not think of that first??
Take note:  THIS IS NO SCAM!!   It's a real deal.
If you open source it i will happily donate 1000 € (or 1000 $) to you, but only after i was able to replicate it successfully.I would not pay a single penny without any 'hard' proof. A video is no 'hard proof' because it can easily be faked.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 11, 2019, 10:53:34 PM
Hi Skywatcher,
The concept is so simple to make and inexpensive that as soon as I show how it's made it's a no brained that a child can figure out and retain the knowledge for years.  As I stated before the motor can be upscaled easily. I have invested much time and money buying and trying this and that over 40 years trying to find free energy without success.  Many failed devices clutter up my garage.    So my thoughts shifted over to Gravity and the use of permanent magnets to make a motor.  I finally found the holy grail which anyone looking at it can see exactly why and how it works.  It's NO FREE ENERY as permanent magnets power the motor but gravity is used to make it operate.  A magnet engineer told me neo magnets have a 100 year life provided they are not heated unreasonably ??
Will post video in late February showing, telling all and complete disassembly of my model.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 11, 2019, 11:02:30 PM
If it can produce more energy than the amount of energy used to produce the magnets, it's 'free energy'.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 12, 2019, 06:44:08 PM
$1,000 dollars will cover a part of year's  looking into free energy. Failed devices clutter up my garage.
And they cost money and time to build.    It's a wonder that no one yet has tried my simple idea of making
A motor employing nothing but permanent magnets and gravity.  I can explain the concept easily to anyone without showing it and quickly they will understand how and why it works. 
So to recupe material cost I have invested in making many failed free energy devices I will extend this offer.  I will sell you a letter showing the basic construction of the motor and all needed instructions as to
how to make it prior to revealing all in Late February.   Who might be interested and what might be your offer?  I only use paypal    Or wait to late February to find out for free.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 12, 2019, 09:12:00 PM
Maybe you could give a basic description of your motor wihthout revealing critical details ?

What kind of motion does it make ?  Does it rotate ?  Or more like a pendulum ?
Does it produce useful output power or does it only barely move ?
How big is it, and can it be scaled to give more power ?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 12, 2019, 11:55:02 PM
Continuous rotary motion. It depend solely on the weight inside the drum enclosure to generate power.
The floating weight inside the drum enclosure is the special part of the setup. It can't be seen normally unless the drum is taken apart and the insides shown.
My 10 inch model rotates but I have no way of telling how much power is put out presently.
Yes the model can easily be scaled up to where it might power a home if made correctly that is.
Non ferrous components are used in construction. Just 316 grade stainless steel, bronze bearings, wood or a plastic drum.  Many other materials can be used as long as they don't attract a magnet. Using all ceramic bearings for axle rotation would be a big plus as they are almost friction free. Right now I am using bronze bearings.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: vince on January 13, 2019, 04:53:36 PM
Is this your design?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 13, 2019, 05:32:36 PM
I keep getting the network connection is lost.
Anyways this has never never
Been published before.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: seychelles on January 13, 2019, 05:57:23 PM
WHO LET THE DOG OUT..
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 13, 2019, 06:01:31 PM
I have questions about open sourcing information.  First thing is that once any information is open sourced can anyone still able to patent your open source designs?  How does the patent office recognize open sourced information?  I am aware that China does not recognize any patents and will make and sell for a lot less than items bought elsewhere.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 13, 2019, 06:12:55 PM
Vince..
You blew up the page with that humongous image..please resize before the forum times out and you can't .

magnetman..
I am sure there are ways to do this , but the patent trap most definitely works against open sourcing.
we have time until your February release to sort that part out.
Stefan could most definitely arrange for a trusted member to witness the device almost anywhere on the planet for
validation [at no fee].and then there could be More Angel donations to your project ?

Chet

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 13, 2019, 06:26:22 PM
#16, #20 :
        a nominal 1000 W 1000 RPM generator generates by 100 RPM : 1000 W x 0,1 x 0,1 x 0,1 =
                                                                          1 W power !

                                       10%  from RPM-nominal but only 0,1% from P-nominal ! ( and up to 98% EFF.)

More detailed info about power calculation :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=2012256422A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20121011&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=2012256422A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20121011&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#)
[ 0016] generator and motor +  power calculation modus and formula [0091] [ 0092] [ 0093] [ 0094]

These only as information to not overestimate mecano-cinetical "rotative devices" and their torque

http://www.imsolution.com.au/fluxgraphs-entry.html (http://www.imsolution.com.au/fluxgraphs-entry.html)  free software available



              --------------------------------------------------------

     China,now the same industrial evolution in Vietnam and Cambodia ...... :
as WTO-members they have to accept no= open source/ patent law rights/- obligations !
But this is written theory ! As for all other not named countries, included G20/G7 !

"Open source" can ever become the source for new patents
when these devices can become technical optimized !
Making the basic structure simpler, with new materials,the design, the efficiency et cet. !                                                 Utility model, technical application = "Patent"

Probably your idea is existent and to find in the WIPO-/ espacenet- archive , " soon invented by others" !
                                 https://worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP)
                                       Title : for example : magnetic rotative device,  magnet motor,  magnet generator         

                                         X fold title-subject determination in different variants to find

Good luck !
Sincerely
OCWL

p. s. : the magnetic motor drawbacks are like here.
  https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=62&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920423&CC=DE&NR=4033061A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=62&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19920423&CC=DE&NR=4033061A1&KC=A1#) 

                                                                    fixed rotationNormally in too high or too low rotation range : gear/ transmission need or low RPM< 200 , these are in the 500€/KW price level
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 12:15:33 AM
To sum it up folks you have a large drum A and a smaller drum B inside it.
A center axle goes through both Large drum A  and smaller drum B without touching drum B because it has no CENTER SIDES.  Just the outer circumference sides or ring like appearance. Drum A has center sides and is enclosed with a removable cover.  Like a wood pot with a lid and center axle through it.


Drum B is very important as it has many equaly spaced apart rod magnets on its ""INSIDES.""
One same polarity on one side and the other polarity on the other side
This drum B setup floats around inside drum A.
Because the sides of Drum B will always present magnets very close to drum As outer circumference any ""EXTERNAL""rod or rod repelling makeup of magnets brought close to A will push the B drum setup to the opposite side of the center axle in Drum A.
 
This causes an unbalanced condition and B drum will turn forcing A drum with it if there is good friction between them.  Silicon tape wound around drum B  ""OUTSIDES ""works well to provide that friction.


So now you have the whole story as to how to make  the motor and I will bet I don't will make a dime out of posting all this as open source information.  Any angels out there?






Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2019, 01:03:32 AM
Well I still think you should contact Stefan and set up a demonstration of your Device .I can try to reach him tomorrow if you like ?
I believe the community will make sure you get rewarded and credit for the device if it truly works as you say.
Chet





Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 01:53:08 AM
I wii post a video of this working in Late February but you can tell Stephan about it.  I am not shooting for any overunity prizes for free energy because this is not free energy as magnets loose  energy over a very long time.
Think about the simple idea.  Move any weight to one side of a center axle creates a imbalanced condition.
Magnetic action can do that.  So simple!!  Can last for over 100 years??
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2019, 02:09:32 AM
I keep getting the network connection is lost.
Anyways this has never never
Been published before.
Actually there was talk about this particular config here at OU.
you are basically offsetting gravity's affect on the inner drum. like it is just being pulled by 2 sources of gravity. Im sure that if the whole thing were set up and the inner drum were set up in its neutral position, it would not turn. It has been talked about before here. Id have to see it work to think otherwise. If the magnet were first introduced, the inner drum does seem to roll the outer wheel and the inner drum does a back and forth thing for a bit causing the outer drum to roll, but then it slows and eventually comes to a stop. At least that is what I know of these devices. Ive seen the idea several times over the years.

Mags
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 02:09:55 AM
I would like to open source a name for this motor.  Like to call it the "" ROTOR FLOATER MAGNET MOTOR"".


Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 03:33:19 AM
Need to use very strong neo magnets as the outside magnet source to keep the inside B drum pressed against the A drum all the time.  The rolling will continue as the weight will be on that side of the center axle all the time and gravity wins.



Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 14, 2019, 08:09:50 AM
Vertical rotation :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19840928&CC=FR&NR=2543226A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19840928&CC=FR&NR=2543226A1&KC=A1#)
Yours horizontal ergo a "starter drive" need : the attraktive/ repulsive magnets
Going to the above application ( " cited documents") citing documents"

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=FR&NR=2543226A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19840928&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=FR&NR=2543226A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19840928&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


 we see how inventors and patent laywers work in their 


                                                     same/ similar/ new re-/ search and development   study !

Also to remark how different a " converter" can become " baptizied" as title-subject !

But the search process is easier as it seems
[cause there are millions of " no title" applications ( granted or not) ] f.e. your device and " similar approach" :

From the " citing documents"- listing I take this

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=4&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19950201&CC=EP&NR=0637120A1&KC=A1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=4&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19950201&CC=EP&NR=0637120A1&KC=A1#)
and remark the official application " class/- ification " a. international  IPC.  b. cooperative CPC

and know now under which number/-s I should search by filling it/-s in the " advanced search" start page


 https://worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP)

  into the two last search term fields : CPC  and/or IPC !

NO WARRANTY for patent office employees "  classification " indication correctness !  Nobody is ......
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 14, 2019, 07:39:13 PM
To sum it up folks you have a large drum A and a smaller drum B inside it.
A center axle goes through both Large drum A  and smaller drum B without touching drum B because it has no CENTER SIDES.  Just the outer circumference sides or ring like appearance. Drum A has center sides and is enclosed with a removable cover.  Like a wood pot with a lid and center axle through it.


Drum B is very important as it has many equaly spaced apart rod magnets on its ""INSIDES.""
One same polarity on one side and the other polarity on the other side
This drum B setup floats around inside drum A.
Because the sides of Drum B will always present magnets very close to drum As outer circumference any ""EXTERNAL""rod or rod repelling makeup of magnets brought close to A will push the B drum setup to the opposite side of the center axle in Drum A.
 
This causes an unbalanced condition and B drum will turn forcing A drum with it if there is good friction between them.  Silicon tape wound around drum B  ""OUTSIDES ""works well to provide that friction.

Thanks for the description.  :)

I think i have to read it several times until i will understand all the details. That's sometimes hard without any pictures.
Some photos or drawings would be really helpful for replication.  :)


Are there any critical parameters (spacing of magnets, etc) ?
How many iterations did you need to get it finally running ?


Quote
So now you have the whole story as to how to make  the motor and I will bet I don't will make a dime out of posting all this as open source information.  Any angels out there?
As i said, if i will be able to successfully replicate it, you will receive a significant donation from me. And i think others might do the same.


You said 'it's not free energy because after many years the magnets will use their strength'... i think if the machine priduces more energy than the energy which had been used to produce the magnets, this excess energy is 'free energy'. Every machine has a limited lifetime. If it would run for some years this would be ok for me.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 08:23:19 PM
I have a basic photo showing the insides of the drums inside magnet covered wheel exposed.
I will try to post through a friend's computer but in the meantime  can someone post the photo in case that does not work. I will need their e mail address however and send them the photo. I have only a I pad to work with right now.  Post the photo on this thread.



Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 14, 2019, 08:31:34 PM
That's how i understand the description.

Is this understanding correct ?

The green drum can rotate and has an axle through the post (i have pictured only one post, of course it would need two of them).The gray drum has bar magnets and is able to 'free-float' inside the green drum.The fixed magnet outside has opposite polarity to the magnets in the drum so that it will attract them.

But i see a problem here:

The fixed magnet will attract the drum, and the drum wants to go down because of gravity, but there will be a point of balance between these two forces, and at this point the motion will stop. I would not expect this construction to rotate continously.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 14, 2019, 08:59:26 PM
Tom I will post the Pic here in this thread for you and put Tom's "" ROTOR FLOATER MAGNET MOTOR"". under the pic  [for the device]
..ChetKremens@gmail.com
EDIT I see Tom also sent to Skywatcher below , however I did ask a question [what to call it] prior to just posting Tom's image
....now posted below as he wishes it named.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 14, 2019, 09:05:21 PM
This is the photo Tom sent me, together with this text:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


A very powerful long rod external magnet is hand held or mounted close to the outside drums center. That in turn repels the inside magnet drum ring to the opposite side. With a horizontal center axle going through the outside drum the inside magnet ring should not touch it.   A very small black spot in the center is where the center axle was drilled open for later. The inside magnet ring floats around and normally centers itself at the bottom of the external Drum when the external magnet is not present. However when repelled or pushed to one side of the center axle gravity takes over and the inside magnet wheel rotates along with the external drum providing there is excellent friction between both of them.     I have used silicon tape for that purpose.   Very simple to construct. Red ends of magnets are my north poles.  Other side are south poles marked blue not shown. Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 09:13:30 PM
Photo needs downsized as all I am getting is network connection is lost.  The verbage is correct.


Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 14, 2019, 09:20:29 PM
Now i have downsized all pics...
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 14, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
Thanks for all help in loading the photo. Now everyone can see what I am trying to explain.
I hope someone replicates it while I am on vacation. 


Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 14, 2019, 11:01:04 PM
Thanks for all help in loading the photo. Now everyone can see what I am trying to explain.
I hope someone replicates it while I am on vacation. 


Tom

I still have some doubts... 

Did you hold the fixed magnet by hand, or was it really fixed ?
If you hold it in your hand, it would be possible that the drums rotate, because you always make some small movements, which will give some energy for it to move.

You wrote that in your construction the fixed magnet is inside the drum, near the center, and it repels the rotor magnets.
In my CAD picture, i placed the magnet on the outside, and it attracts the rotor magnets.
I think both variants are equivalent... what do you think ?

Even if i have some doubts if it really works, i like the idea...  :)
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 15, 2019, 12:25:31 AM
It was hand held.  See no reason fixed will not work.
Attraction is out!!! The only thing that will happen is very quickly the inner magnet wheel will jump towards the external magnet and PIN itself to the internal sides of the drum enclosure without the drum rolling at all.  So NO ATTRACTION to be used.


It has not happened to me but if to much repell is used I guess the same pinning thing might happen on the opposite side of the drum even if that side is very heavy.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: gyulasun on January 15, 2019, 12:35:10 AM
It was hand held.  See no reason fixed will not work.
....
Hi Tom,
I kindly ask you to repeat the test (when you have the time) with a rigidly fixed magnet too because
a hand held magnet always include hand movement, whatever small it may be.  When your fingers have to
work against repel forces while holding the magnet, unwanted and mostly unnoticed finger  or hand movements
can add  "input energy"  to the system. 
The rigidly fixed magnet test should be done even if only the mere presence of the repel field is needed for the continuous operation 
i.e. only a non-moving, static field is needed at one of the sides of the outer drum.
Gyula
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 15, 2019, 12:37:20 AM
It was hand held.  See no reason fixed will not work.
Ok, this explains a lot. Nobody is able to hold a magnet at a fixed position if there are other moving magnets nearby.
Your hand will move, and this is where the energy comes from. I'm quite sure it will not work with a fixed magnet.

Quote
Attraction is out!!! The only thing that will happen is very quickly the inner magnet wheel will jump towards the external magnet and PIN itself to the internal sides of the drum enclosure without the drum rolling at all.  So NO ATTRACTION to be used.

It has not happened to me but if to much repell is used I guess the same pinning thing might happen on the opposite side of the drum even if that side is very heavy.
But the fixed magnet could also be outside the rotating drum ?  This would be much easier to construct.
If it has to be inside the drum, the drum can only have one bearing, like the drum of a washing machine.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 15, 2019, 01:15:41 AM
The fixed magnet is being hand held on the ""OUTSIDE ""of the drum??  Inside the drum is the magnet wheel.  I did not realize I did not make that point clear enough??  Two bearings are used.  One for the drum axle bottom and one for the removable lid axle so the magnet wheel can be removed.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 15, 2019, 01:32:13 AM
The fixed magnet is being hand held on the ""OUTSIDE ""of the drum??  Inside the drum is the magnet wheel.  I did not realize I did not make that point clear enough??  Two bearings are used.  One for the drum axle bottom and one for the removable lid axle so the magnet wheel can be removed.
You wrote "A very powerful long rod external magnet is hand held or mounted close to the outside drums center."
The 'outside drums center' is inside the drum...  but this didn't make sense to me.
Thanks for clarification.

So my picture from #32 is correct, except that the outide magnet should be in the opposite direction, to repel the drum ?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 15, 2019, 01:57:02 AM
The magnet wheel in your diagram needs to be made much larger so it always clears the central axle of the
Drum when the magnet wheel rotates or floats around.


The external magnet has to have polaritys reversed so it repels.


I hope this clears things up.


Tom
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: eavogels on January 15, 2019, 12:03:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc)

Perhaps this video explains about how it works. Not exactly the same, but close enough.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2019, 03:05:50 PM
VEproject1's video above ...he does make believe devices for teaching purposes! [he sure does a good job,looks real as always]

Just a repost of Tom's claim

quote
A very powerful long rod external magnet is hand held or mounted close to the outside drums center. That in turn repels the inside magnet drum ring to the opposite side. With a horizontal center axle going through the outside drum the inside magnet ring should not touch it.   A very small black spot in the center is where the center axle was drilled open for later. The inside magnet ring floats around and normally centers itself at the bottom of the external Drum when the external magnet is not present. However when repelled or pushed to one side of the center axle gravity takes over and the inside magnet wheel rotates along with the external drum providing there is excellent friction between both of them.     I have used silicon tape for that purpose.   Very simple to construct. Red ends of magnets are my north poles.  Other side are south poles marked blue not shown. Tom..

..also this quote from Tom..

It was hand held.  See no reason fixed will not work.
Attraction is out!!! The only thing that will happen is very quickly the inner magnet wheel will jump towards the external magnet and PIN itself to the internal sides of the drum enclosure without the drum rolling at all.  So NO ATTRACTION to be used.


It has not happened to me but if to much repell is used I guess the same pinning thing might happen on the opposite side of the drum even if that side is very heavy.-..
The fixed magnet is being hand held on the ""OUTSIDE ""of the drum??  Inside the drum is the magnet wheel.  I did not realize I did not make that point clear enough??  Two bearings are used.  One for the drum axle bottom and one for the removable lid axle so the magnet wheel can be removed.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: eavogels on January 15, 2019, 03:28:04 PM
The fixed magnet is being hand held on the ""OUTSIDE ""of the drum?? 


Tom writes: outside of the center. I think he means inside the drum, off-center.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2019, 03:45:27 PM
In Skywatcher CGI post #32 this thread ,Tom makes a correction about the inside drum needing to be bigger and also emphasize the outside polarity//
Tom ....Quote..The magnet wheel in your diagram needs to be made much larger so it always clears the central axle of the Drum when the magnet wheel rotates or floats around.


The external magnet has to have polaritys reversed so it repels.



I hope this clears things up.


Tom ....end quote..,
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: nul-points on January 15, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
Hi Tom,
I kindly ask you to repeat the test (when you have the time) with a rigidly fixed magnet too because
a hand held magnet always include hand movement, whatever small it may be.  When your fingers have to
work against repel forces while holding the magnet, unwanted and mostly unnoticed finger  or hand movements
can add  "input energy"  to the system. 
The rigidly fixed magnet test should be done even if only the mere presence of the repel field is needed for the continuous operation 
i.e. only a non-moving, static field is needed at one of the sides of the outer drum.
Gyula

i agree, Gyula - this project has a sense of deja vu for me - i'm pretty sure that there's been at least 1 other system like this which works well when external mag is hand held but stops when the external mag is fixed ('Whip-Mag', maybe?)

i think they found that because of what folks have said about slight movement when holding 1 mag near others then the hand movement is part of the system - theres a sort of phase-delay in the hand movement - as you try to keep the ext mag still, you compensate slightly and inadvertantly add some external energy, slightly out of phase with rotor and the whole thing keeps going, but when ext mag is fixed, no phase-delayed input, & rotation stops

i hope this isn't true of this system but be prepared for disappointment...

all the best
np
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 15, 2019, 07:15:42 PM
I hope others can replicate this setup as I have given more than enough information as to how to make the motor so the cat is out of the bag now.
All angel donations- if any - later should go directly to the Saint Jude Children's hospital charity.
I don't wish for anything and have received nothing presently. I am under pressure to cease what I am doing. All further E mails will go unanswered.
I won't be talking any further about this particular motor and the model I have is in pieces presently so there will be No demonstration later in February.  I plan to live a quiete lifes style in my remaining years. I have not been bought out!!!
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: memoryman on January 15, 2019, 07:30:49 PM
"I have not been bought out" neither have you DEMONSTRATED anything.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 15, 2019, 07:59:33 PM
THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG NOW!!
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: seychelles on January 15, 2019, 08:07:08 PM
SO WHO LET THE DOG OUT AND NOW THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG..

MEEEEOOOW...
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 15, 2019, 08:37:02 PM
I hope others can replicate this setup as I have given more than enough information as to how to make the motor so the cat is out of the bag now.

Although i'm still skeptical i will try to get it running... just for fun. I hope it will work, but i don't expect very much.
My 3D printer is currently printing the first parts... maybe next weekend i will post my results.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Temporal Visitor on January 16, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
"I have not been bought out" neither have you DEMONSTRATED anything.

While not necessarily GIVING YOU what YOU WANT he most certainly has demonstrated several important things.

He has demonstrated that he actually built something upon which others could learn from IF they have the WILL to do so.
He has demonstrated that he FOUND his WILL to forgo self enrichment to help others with the result of his valuable ENERGY/WORK efforts.
He has demonstrated that he has hope, love and care for others besides his own personal WANTS and desires by his
selfless ACT OF GIVING.

That is quite a demonstration even though you might deny it.

"No you can't always get
What you want
But if you try sometimes
Well you might find
You get what you need"
https://youtu.be/9DKhG6NA1Qc?t=98

Have hope, give it a try .... it WORKS.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2019, 03:28:10 PM
Mike..Happy new year and exactly what I was thinking regardless the outcome [Tom believes and gives freely]and wants any funds to go to the needy !!


and here a link from Lanca posted By floor in his magnet experiment thread

Twice the power density of neo's at zilch cost ,,,plus Green [planet friendly 2018 patent
http://license.umn.edu/technologies/20120016_iron-nitride-permanent-magnet-alternative-to-rare-earth-and-neodymium-magnets (http://license.umn.edu/technologies/20120016_iron-nitride-permanent-magnet-alternative-to-rare-earth-and-neodymium-magnets)
respectfully...
Chet..Ps..will give you a ring later..been thinking about you.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 16, 2019, 09:39:24 PM
This is the rotor.  :)

d = 140 mm,  h = 60 mm,  16 magnets 12x60 mm  N38
Weight is about 900g (most of it comes from the magnets).

The magnetic field of the rotor feels almost like the field of a single magnet, there are absolutely no 'ripples' whatsoever.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: memoryman on January 16, 2019, 09:55:18 PM
Temporal Visitor: Still lurking here, I see.
Typically the magnetic ENERGY in a permanent magnet is very small (Joules) and the process of creating a permanent magnet is inefficient (~50 %?)
If you want to educate yourself (although I have seen no evidence of that):
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magenergy.htm
So this contraption is also relegated to the large mountain of non-working FE devices.
Have fun playing with it though.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Mem on January 17, 2019, 06:47:09 AM
Over all this idea quite similar to this (the url didn't work, so I'll re do it below)
except free rotating part/rotor is larger.
However having the rotor in smaller size will increase the output toque and it fells like it may even go faster or maybe?

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Mem on January 17, 2019, 06:53:43 AM
Here is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc)[url=http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: F6FLT on January 17, 2019, 10:57:58 AM
Here is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc)

"Visual Education project" is a series of faked perpetual motion machines but really very well built.
It's educational only for those who are trying to understand why they don't work.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 17, 2019, 11:16:45 AM
#48 image to #57 to 3d modell : fine,  well done!  Pretty,  too pretty. ! ( only my personal mind)


For FEMM-modelling :

I would prefer : open the " eternity symbol" ~ the horizontal 8 ;
  not a rectangular but a round swastika-configuration !  magnets orientation : ccw or cw ?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Temporal Visitor on January 17, 2019, 04:07:32 PM
Temporal Visitor: Still lurking here, I see.
Typically the magnetic ENERGY in a permanent magnet is very small (Joules) and the process of creating a permanent magnet is inefficient (~50 %?)
If you want to educate yourself (although I have seen no evidence of that):
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/magenergy.htm
So this contraption is also relegated to the large mountain of non-working FE devices.
Have fun playing with it though.

"Lurking"? Stepping forward to help someone else defend against your ILL CON-ceived attack(s) is in fact the opposite of "lurking here".
By your own words: ", I see." - You clearly demonstrate your awareness of my presence "here" with your admitted ability to see.
So much for any supposed "evidence" of "lurking" on my part.

My original post simply pointed out facts you don't like, truths you have no way to respond to and will remain unable to counter.

So of course you resort to your SOP of turning your attack towards me, which to me is further evidence you are and have already lost. Another fact that in reality that does not even matter at all. It was expected.

As for "ENERGY" in a magnet; so what! Magnets do not produce "energy" - they only have a magnetic FORCE field of "X" strength and you know that much for certain, the rest escapes you.

If it was thought you had an ability to explain how "ENERGY" is in fact created, when, where and what it comes from you can be sure you would have been asked directly to do so.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: memoryman on January 17, 2019, 04:26:39 PM
Mike, you seem to 'feel' attacked a lot. Happy with that?
Of course magnetism is a field that exhibits a force. So is gravity. And?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Temporal Visitor on January 17, 2019, 05:09:30 PM
Mike, you seem to 'feel' attacked a lot. Happy with that?
Of course magnetism is a field that exhibits a force. So is gravity. And?

"And?" : as previously written; the rest escapes you.

"Have fun playing with it" yourself.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: juliotony on January 20, 2019, 08:29:14 AM
this  is  my  idea

https://youtu.be/l900fICp2Eg

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 20, 2019, 01:11:02 PM
Now i have finished my build.

The external magnet can not be seen on the picture because before making a magnet holder i first wanted to test it with a hand-held magnet, to see where the optimal position for the external magnet is. But the tests were completely disappointing and worse than i had expected. I tested it with several magnets: one bar magnet (the same as in the ones in the rotor), two bar magnets, and one or two very strong cube magnets.

I was not able to get any rotation whatsoever. In the best cases it rotated some 30 degrees and then it stopped.

It's not even 'almost working', it's not working at all.


Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 20, 2019, 01:31:09 PM
1 Rotation is for the rotor the maximal freedoms degree limited by the shaft fixation.

You fixed the magnets  ! And their magnetic force field near/ far effect!

1 Rotor( or Stator) dividing this 360° circle in chamber,  where the - each magnet/ its- chamber can  moves with or against the outer Ring !?
At first 4d modelling !
But your work : really fine, too clean !
 IN GERMAN , military advice : " Stillgestanden !"  Later : " Ruehren !"

wmbr
OCWL
p.s.: "flywheels" as energy storage and recuperation devices( older : also trolley busses) : principle, function
          drawbacks
         f.e.: AEG " Magnet Motor"- development, included in a MAN-Citybus :
         before 200 KW only Diesel-engine
        after       20 KW Diesel-engine + Magnet-Flywheel
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: ARTMOSART on January 20, 2019, 01:39:50 PM
Now i have finished my build.



I was not able to get any rotation whatsoever. In the best cases it rotated some 30 degrees and then it stopped.

It's not even 'almost working', it's not working at all.
Hi skywatcher,
nice bwuild and thank for doing the experiment ,if you can, i suggest to you to reduce the number of magnet to half or les ,just an idea?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 20, 2019, 01:40:23 PM
1 Rotation is for the rotor the maximal freedoms degree limited by the shaft fixation.

You fixed the magnets  ! And their magnetic force field near/ far effect!

1 Rotor( or Stator) dividing this 360° circle in chamber,  where the - each magnet/ its- chamber can  moves with or against the outer Ring !?

Sorry, i don't understand what you mean. The rotor is NOT fixed. It can move (roll) freely inside the drum.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 20, 2019, 01:49:09 PM
Hi skywatcher,
nice bwuild and thank for doing the experiment ,if you can, i suggest to you to reduce the number of magnet to half or les ,just an idea?
This would not improve anything, i think it would be even worse then.
Maybe making the drum slightly bigger would improve it a little bit but it's so far from working i think there is no chance that even after some improvements it would work.
I will not waste more time on this project.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 20, 2019, 01:49:34 PM
It is" relatively" fixed by Stator/ Rotor dimension ratio  !
Give the magnets ccw or cw motion freedom,  their mass moving effect extra as potential !
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 20, 2019, 02:06:31 PM
It is" relatively" fixed by Stator/ Rotor dimension ratio  !
Give the magnets ccw or cw motion freedom,  their mass moving effect extra as potential !

It's absolutely the same as described by Tom and shown in his picture.
I wanted to repilcate Tom's design, not anything else.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 20, 2019, 02:16:12 PM
  " It is absolutely the same as described by Tom ..."
#46  not ~ #57 ,#48 ~ #57
       #46 / # 48 : magnetic field lines!?


Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 20, 2019, 02:21:07 PM
Look at the picture in #46.  What is different in by build ?  Except that everything is made of plastic, not wood.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: lancaIV on January 20, 2019, 02:26:08 PM
Inner moving drum,  outer moving drum : ~ Frenette Heater,  vertical.

Tom : Frenette- horizontal + magnets + inner drum: unfixed

Have a fine Sunday
OCWL
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: znel on January 21, 2019, 01:30:58 PM
Look at the picture in #46.  What is different in by build ?  Except that everything is made of plastic, not wood.
Mildly off topic... What 3d printer are you using?  It looks like it does a really clean and detailed print.   
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Low-Q on January 27, 2019, 01:50:46 AM
I wii post a video of this working in Late February but you can tell Stephan about it.  I am not shooting for any overunity prizes for free energy because this is not free energy as magnets loose  energy over a very long time.
Think about the simple idea.  Move any weight to one side of a center axle creates a imbalanced condition.
Magnetic action can do that.  So simple!!  Can last for over 100 years??
Have you ever considered why drum B moves at the side at all? The result, using a magnet to push B to the side, will appearently look like drum A suddenly got more weight on one side. However, the force of the magnet is keeping it there, so the total vector of forces between A and B is perpendicular to the point where A and B touch eachother. So there is no force to spin A, or B with it.
As long B keeps its position to the side, it is logical that there is no driving forces that makes A rotate. Just if B is stuck to A, and B is able to "fall" down and drag A with it, you get rotation for a few degrees. But that is due to the release of potential energy in B.


Vidar
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 27, 2019, 11:41:17 AM
Have you ever considered why drum B moves at the side at all? The result, using a magnet to push B to the side, will appearently look like drum A suddenly got more weight on one side. However, the force of the magnet is keeping it there, so the total vector of forces between A and B is perpendicular to the point where A and B touch eachother. So there is no force to spin A, or B with it.
That's exactly how it behaves. At first look it looks like an imbalance but the force of the external magnet keeps this imbalance as long as it's there, and so there is no reason for the drum to rotate. It can not work.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: eavogels on January 27, 2019, 01:36:06 PM
Have you ever considered why drum B moves at the side at all? The result, using a magnet to push B to the side, will appearently look like drum A suddenly got more weight on one side. However, the force of the magnet is keeping it there, so the total vector of forces between A and B is perpendicular to the point where A and B touch eachother. So there is no force to spin A, or B with it.
As long B keeps its position to the side, it is logical that there is no driving forces that makes A rotate. Just if B is stuck to A, and B is able to "fall" down and drag A with it, you get rotation for a few degrees. But that is due to the release of potential energy in B.


Vidar


I see some connection with this device from Robert Calloway, when reading the explanation.
http://freeenergy2000.tripod.com/hamstercagerotor.htm
/Eric

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 27, 2019, 01:51:25 PM

I see some connection with this device from Robert Calloway, when reading the explanation.
http://freeenergy2000.tripod.com/hamstercagerotor.htm (http://freeenergy2000.tripod.com/hamstercagerotor.htm)
/Eric
That's besically the same principle. I think almost every idea has already been tried by someone. Magnets are not new, so there was plenty of time to experiment... obviously without any success.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 30, 2019, 11:20:31 PM
Cut out a 5 inch section of 4 inch diameter pvc pipe.  Make 2 four inch diameter end caps for the pipe and drill a 5/16 or 8mm hole in the center of each cap.   Two 8 mm all ceramic skate bearings mounted in the end caps will have the lowest rotating friction. [
Now take a 3 inch long 1 inch diameter alnico or neo rod magnet covered by a  3 inch, 3 or 4 ply silicon automobile water hose and place it inside the 5 inch long pvc pipe. 

Place caps inside both ends of the 5 inch long pipe and run a 12 inch long 5/16 inch or 8 mm diameter non ferrous rod through it.
Support both ends of the rod so the 4 inch diameter ,5 inch long pipe rotates freely.
SLOWLY bring another powerful same size rod magnet close to one side of the supported pipe so the magnet inside the pipe just starts to roll to the other side ""in repel.""  Stop at that point. If done to quick the magnet inside the pipe will pin itself to the inside pipe wall and nothing will happen.
That silicon hose provides the bonding or sticky surface that insures the pvc pipe to start rolling the ""INSTANT"" the hose covered magnet inside the pipe rolls.  The inside magnet must be free to rotate but must ""NOT "" be able to slip around.
This is as simple and inexpensive as it gets as far as build trouble goes.


I plan to show it in late February.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 30, 2019, 11:30:19 PM
Why should the magnet roll ?  It only rolls until all forces are balanced out. Maybe it also rolls for some short time if you move the external magnet back and forth. But it will not roll if the external magnet is fixed.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 31, 2019, 02:59:05 AM
If motion is certainly required then make the external magnet like a small pendulum bouncing back and forth at a certain distance away from the internal hose covered magnet while ""in repel.""   A small springlike device on the external magnet is not hard to construct?
Remember than when the internal magnet try's to go up the pipes inner diameter it will roll backward at some point and that will in turn bounce the external magnet backward. Pendulum forward action will kick in.   Process is repetitive.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 31, 2019, 08:32:19 AM
If motion is certainly required then make the external magnet like a small pendulum bouncing back and forth at a certain distance away from the internal hose covered magnet while ""in repel.""   A small springlike device on the external magnet is not hard to construct?
Remember than when the internal magnet try's to go up the pipes inner diameter it will roll backward at some point and that will in turn bounce the external magnet backward. Pendulum forward action will kick in.   Process is repetitive.
This will not work either, because the spring doesn't supply energy into the system, like your hand movement does.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 31, 2019, 09:25:07 PM
When the external magnet is brought very slowly towards the internal magnet covered by a silicon pipe
the silicon pipe covered internal magnet will start to roll ""IN ONE SPOT"".  At the 6:30 position bottom of the 5 inch long pipe.
If  the internal magnet is allowed to slip around nothing will work at all.  It must be able grip while turning to rotate the 5 inch long pipe its inside.  That's where the silicon hose acts like a GRIP between the internal hose covered magnet and 4 inch diameter pipe.


Slipping is not allowed.

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 31, 2019, 10:08:00 PM
Nope. I tried it with a 40mm round magnet with some rubber bands attached to it to have enough grip. It sticks to the drum and when the external magnet approaches (regardless how slow or fast) the drum together with the magnet rotates some 20 degrees until the forces are balanced, and then stops. The 'rolling' magnet doesn't roll at all, not even slightly. It's just sticking to the drum. Even when i try to rotate the drum slightly with my hand it stops immediately when it's released.

This is totally consistent with the expected behaviour.

Why should the magnet start to roll ?  It doesn't roll 'downhill' because there is no 'downhill'. The 'downhill force' is canceled by the external magnet.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on January 31, 2019, 11:28:07 PM
Check out reply video #45 by EA Vogels.  Using a silicon covered rod magnet inside the pipe in attraction will do the same thing.   The external magnet needs to be at some distance away so the internal magnet does not hard pin to the pipes inside wall.
Something surely could be developed to take the place of fingers holding the external magnet in the video??
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on January 31, 2019, 11:42:21 PM
The video is fake. It shows how the machine 'should have worked' but in reality it doesn't.

The idea of this machine is almost 200 years old so why don't we see machines working on this principle everywhere ?   ::)
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 02, 2019, 01:25:31 AM
Ok never giving upon this idea.  Take a total of 4 longboard skate wheels with all ceramic bearings in them.
Mount a pair of them horizontally on a non ferrous shaft.  Do the same  for the other pair.  Spread the pair apart about 1/2 inch or so and fix one end of each shaft to a horizontal support which will allow the wheels to free rotate close to each other.


Now place a 4 inch diameter, 5 inch long, section of pvc pipe on top of both sets of free turning skate wheels.
You guessed it- now place a 3 inch long, 1 inch diameter alnico or neo magnet covered in a silicon pipe
Inside the 4 inch diameter pipe.


Bringing a external magnet near it will cause the silicon pipe magnet inside the 4 inch pipe to roll the other way in repel.  But since the 4 inch pipe is on free roller bed composed of free rotating skate wheels under it- it will roll in a fixed spot.  No axle needed at all.


If you take just a 5 inch long 4 inch diameter pipe and place the above magnet inside it it will roll freely the other way on a ground floor when a external hand held magnet is placed close in repel.  The same holds true for the above??
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: Belfior on February 02, 2019, 10:56:21 AM
I think people can ruin a good idea very fast, if they do not try to minimize the negatives.

Why use bearings? Use magnetic bearings if you have to
Do you actually need to rotate a physical thing? How much friction and air friction is that physical thing going to suffer? How about rotating the field instead?
Is the rotation accelerating all the time or just trying to go one speed?
Are you using all the known parameters or forces that can aid your rotor movement? Lorentz force, asymmetric cap force etc
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 02, 2019, 07:31:51 PM
If the idea in principle would work (which it does not) there should be a significant force and torque, so there would be no need for special bearings etc.

It's always the same: if something doesn't work, someone comes and says 'you did something wrong'.
But in most cases it's the idea itself, which doesn't work... not the implementation.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 03, 2019, 05:24:33 PM
I already had the magnet inside the 4 inch diameter pipe rolling in repel on the floor.   If you hold the pipe with magnet inside steady and bring the external magnet very close you can feel a considerable force the opposite way in repel.  So what's the difference if rolling on top of a skate wheel setup in one spot while the the external magnet is very close to it??
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 03, 2019, 09:18:43 PM
If you have the free-rolling tube on the floor and you approach it with a magnet, it will roll away, and you have to follow it:  Force x displacement = energy.  If it is fixed you only have force but no displacement, so you have no energy. That's why it doesn't work.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 04, 2019, 02:21:34 AM
By placing the 4 inch pipe with magnet inside on top of the skate wheel bed it will "" ROLL"" in one spot now and that's the displacement.  You don't have to follow it with the external magnet anymore. That magnet in repel near the setup now supplies the force.  That's all energy.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 06, 2019, 03:15:30 AM
Will post corrected photo later.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 06, 2019, 10:55:57 PM
The 3 inch long internal magnet is at its upper limits repeled away from the external magnet.
So now it's weight is resting on the left side of the 4 inch diameter pipe.


That sets up a imbalanced condition where the left heavy side of the pipe rolls downwards.
The internal magnet just rolls in place on the surface of the pipes insides.


Any amount of all ceramic skate bearings can be used to support the pipe in a horizontal position.
I stated 4 each on both sides but more can be used.  The ceramic bearings are the best to use as they are not magnetic.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 07, 2019, 12:11:49 AM
Always the same wrong reasoning... there can be no permanent imbalance.

Every imbalance of forces causes motion, but the motion stops as soon as the balance is restored.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 07, 2019, 04:05:24 AM
The only thing the external magnet does is raise up by repel the internal magnet to its highest elevation.
That's all.  Since the 4 inch drum is round inside the internal magnet must fall one way or another to the drums inside wall.  At its highest limit it rests its weight in one spot on the walls inside.


Now the drum is heavy on that side and rotates downward all the time as the internal magnet is not going anywhere.  The internal magnet is free to turn with the drum however.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 07, 2019, 10:03:47 PM
It also would be nice to have a geared track around the inside of the 4 inch pipe as well as a geared track around the internal rod magnet.  Why?  So the internal rod magnet does not slip sideways during repel movement which can easily happen even covered with a silicon pipe.


Does anyone know of a company that sells thin flexible plastic gear tracks other than using heavy automobile timing belts cut to length?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 07, 2019, 10:50:26 PM
It also would be nice to have a geared track around the inside of the 4 inch pipe as well as a geared track around the internal rod magnet.  Why?  So the internal rod magnet does not slip sideways during repel movement which can easily happen even covered with a silicon pipe.


Does anyone know of a company that sells thin flexible plastic gear tracks other than using heavy automobile timing belts cut to length?
This could be easily 3D-printed. But it will not work anyway...   ::)
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 10, 2019, 12:26:26 AM
A long time ago Robert Calloway published  The Hamster Cage Magnetic Motor.  06/19/01
He described how to make it in detail.  Had it running for a short while until the rod magnets in repel hung up.  Possibly someone can come up with improvements on that design??   All that's needed is 4 rod magnets, a cylinder, center shaft, and some other non magnetic components.
Simple build but need much patience to get it going.
Click: Robert Calloway. Hamster Cage Magnetic Motor, Keelynet  and that should take you to his motor idea
That actually worked in repel for a short time.
Who might find all this interesting today?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: eavogels on February 10, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
A long time ago Robert Calloway published  The Hamster Cage Magnetic Motor.  06/19/01
He described how to make it in detail.  Had it running for a short while until the rod magnets in repel hung up.  Possibly someone can come up with improvements on that design??   All that's needed is 4 rod magnets, a cylinder, center shaft, and some other non magnetic components.
Simple build but need much patience to get it going.
Click: Robert Calloway. Hamster Cage Magnetic Motor, Keelynet  and that should take you to his motor idea
That actually worked in repel for a short time.
Who might find all this interesting today?


Or follow this link:http://freeenergy2000.tripod.com/hamstercagerotor.htm (http://freeenergy2000.tripod.com/hamstercagerotor.htm)[/color][/font]

Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 11, 2019, 05:24:05 AM
Click:  "MAGNET TRACK MOTOR"   A You Tube video.

it might take a little doing but it should work.  Bending iron rods is not easy. You might even use iron powder in some sort of very thick paste arranged as rods also. Stainless steel powder wont work.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 11, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
Click:  "MAGNET TRACK MOTOR"   A You Tube video.

it might take a little doing but it should work.  Bending iron rods is not easy. You might even use iron powder in some sort of very thick paste arranged as rods also. Stainless steel powder wont work.

This 'V-gate' idea has been tried thousands of times... and never worked.

I have never seen any working self-running permanent magnet motor. And i strongly doubt that there are any.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 12, 2019, 12:44:12 AM
You must use iron or low carbon steel rods 1/4 inch or larger diameter so the magnets have something to cling and roll next to.  Other wise it wont work.  Can use lines of 1/4 inch roll pins spaced apart stuck in the sides of the non ferrous cylinder.   No Block wall to deal with.   I never give up.
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2019, 03:50:40 PM
test
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: magnetman12003 on February 15, 2019, 04:58:06 PM
https://upliftconnect.com/13-year-old-designs-free-energy/

Whats your take on the above  article?

Has the plans for making one submitted to Overunity.com?
Title: Re: What's a magnet/ gravity motor worth to you?? New way of thought.
Post by: skywatcher on February 15, 2019, 08:14:40 PM
https://upliftconnect.com/13-year-old-designs-free-energy/ (https://upliftconnect.com/13-year-old-designs-free-energy/)

Whats your take on the above  article?

Has the plans for making one submitted to Overunity.com?

https://www.higgypop.com/news/max-loughan-free-energy-device/

Nothing to see here...