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Author Topic: Magnetic flux control idea  (Read 21539 times)

shylo

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2018, 09:41:24 AM »
So if we have a steel rod positioned beside a magnet, the lines of force are concentrated towards the steel rod.
Now if you bring another steel rod to the opposite side are the lines now divided between the two?
Meaning the attractive force is now half?
artv
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2018, 12:27:41 PM »
Quote from: shylo on December 18, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
So if we have a steel rod positioned beside a magnet, the lines of force are concentrated towards the steel rod.
Now if you bring another steel rod to the opposite side are the lines now divided between the two?
Meaning the attractive force is now half?
artv
Not all the field goes through one steel rod. Rest of the field loops right back throug the air.
Adding one more rod, it willl guide some of the field too, but less density through each rod. Because one rod weaken the the field elsewhere. If you could count field lines into 10 lines. Then maybe 5 of those goes through a single rod. Adding one more rod, maybe 4 lines goes through each of them, leaving 2 lines left that loops directly through air.
I hope this explanation makes sense :)


So the widest part of my shield guides most of the field, while the hidden rod inside gets "nothing".
At the narrow side, the rod dominate the field, while less goes through the shield.
However, lots of the field goes through the wide side, leaving less on the narrow side.
But if the magnet is long, the field will "hit" the shield perpendicular to the wheels, and that, I suppose, will leave a uniform field through the whole diameter of the wheel.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2018, 06:51:04 PM »
Quote from: shylo on December 18, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
So if we have a steel rod positioned beside a magnet, the lines of force are concentrated towards the steel rod.
Now if you bring another steel rod to the opposite side are the lines now divided between the two?
Meaning the attractive force is now half?
artv
I quote you again.
In my previous reply to you, I explained two rods on each side with no other magnetic objects nearby,
However, in the wheel I've designed, I assume that the narrow end rod is more magnetic attracted than the wide side rod because the stationary shield at the wide side is picking up more of the field than the narrow side. The wheels itself is also magnetic attractive, and that is the main reason why I'm confused about how equilibrium can occur.
If it's the case that one side of the rotating wheels, including rods, is more attractive on one side than the other, I will probably be killed by Big Oil ;D . However, I want to live my life, so I hope my assumtions isn't correct.
I will do some more simulations on this also, but FEMM isn't considering the magnetic field that goes "in and out" of the computer screen, only those in plane with the screen. Also, Femm cannot simulate an object that is wider on one end than the other. The defined depth of the model is fixed to the same depth all over the place, on every object. Iron, magnets, air, or what not.
Therefor, FEMM is pretty much useless to simulate a model that have magnetic fields in three dimensions. So I must try to make a simulation, or several, for it to make sense. However, the best "simulation" is building the thing and get it over with.


Now, I'm resting on a hotel after 7 hours driving. Some dinner now, and I will start simulating more while am not at home and able to do any work on my model.


Vidar
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shylo

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2018, 11:44:31 PM »
So the magnetic pull never weakens no matter how many avenues we give it?
As long as they are of the same orientation?
artv
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2018, 06:40:27 AM »
Quote from: shylo on December 18, 2018, 11:44:31 PM
So the magnetic pull never weakens no matter how many avenues we give it?
As long as they are of the same orientation?
artv
I would say that the magnetic pull on one single steel rod weakens if you introduce another steel rod, but not as much as half. Both will have a combined pull greater than one single steel rod, but not double the force.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 11:59:25 PM »
Finally some bearing holders that fits.
PS! The picture of a spinning disc, spins because I spun it by hand. Just for illustration.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2018, 12:12:07 PM »
I must make a rod controller so the rods doesn't slide out.
Attached image is from SketchUp Make. It is made of semi flexible material.
Fexing material is necessary because the rods does not follow a circular path due to the angle between the wheels.


Each rod is placed centered in each hole


Vidar
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Belfior

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2018, 01:30:22 PM »
have you thought about magnetic bearings, so the thing just floats? I think I need to give them up. Just a bit of rotation and the thing flies off the bench :(
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shylo

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2018, 07:32:40 PM »
Spinning an all north field, creates a south field out in front of the spinning north
The distance away from the spinning field, determines on the strength of the magnet's that are spinning
Vidar

Just mount a retainer on either side to prevent the rods from traveling too far.
Nice work

artv
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2018, 09:20:32 AM »
Quote from: Belfior on December 21, 2018, 01:30:22 PM
have you thought about magnetic bearings, so the thing just floats? I think I need to give them up. Just a bit of rotation and the thing flies off the bench :(
I don't think magnetic bearings will do any good. These baallbearings that I have, have no longer grease in them, so they spins very easily.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2018, 09:33:28 AM »
Quote from: shylo on December 21, 2018, 07:32:40 PM
Spinning an all north field, creates a south field out in front of the spinning north
The distance away from the spinning field, determines on the strength of the magnet's that are spinning
Vidar

Just mount a retainer on either side to prevent the rods from traveling too far.
Nice work

artv

I do not understand the first paragraph ???


Retainers will help :) , bu I'll try this holey rod holder first.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2018, 11:57:02 PM »
Then the structure to hold the shafts and the shields is finished. Not good quality since I printed too fast, too low temperature. Anyways, it holds the wheels and shield good enough.
The flexible rod holder didn't worked, so I'm printing two 15° cones that holds the rods. These cones fits between the wheels, and will roll along the inside without wobbeling from side to side.
I also have to make a stronger magnet. Stacking those discmagnets, and configure them as an hallbach array. I will show you how later.
Here is a couple of new pictures.


Vidar
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Belfior

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2018, 01:53:42 PM »
I'm not sure if these are any help to you, but Laithwaite has many videos on youtube, that gave me many ideas on magnetics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWiYsRi2Dss

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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2018, 12:55:50 PM »
Quote from: Belfior on December 26, 2018, 01:53:42 PM
I'm not sure if these are any help to you, but Laithwaite has many videos on youtube, that gave me many ideas on magnetics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWiYsRi2Dss
I watched the video in your link. Very interesting stuff. If I just could get my magnets to behave like AC-coils.


Vidar
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Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic flux control idea
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2018, 01:03:21 PM »
New update on the project. It didn't worked out as I hoped. So new parts is printed to achieve better alignment and much less friction.
As said before, the exposed rods at the narrow side was assumed to be pulled more than the hidden rods at the wide side, where I also could not figure out what counter force which stops the rotation. However, some misalignments, and too short rods, prevents a good analysis of whats going on.
Here is a short video, in poor slow english ( ;D )...
https://youtu.be/hxgRHdQeN44


Vidar
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