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Author Topic: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3  (Read 3325 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 12:31:25 AM »
Hi Vidar,

The thing I agree with you is that the setup should be built to see how it behaves. 
During the tests the weight should be changed to find the best match to the spring force at a certain RPM.  You do not want to use too heavy weight or too mild spring and / or the other way round.  Also, the RPM of the wheel should also be choosen not to let the spring being fully pressed when the weight just passes at the 6 o'clock position. 
And as I see this (and assuming the setup would at least self run under a no load condition), the useful shaft torque (the output) would be within a relatively narrow range (and I do not mean this a drawback).  Maximum shaft torque would be mainly defined by the magnets strength used in the V gate.
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 12:31:25 AM »

Offline F6FLT

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2018, 10:26:05 AM »
...
In simple terms:

1. Increasing Phase ---> magnet or iron is being attracted into the (elektro)magnetic field, the closer it gets, the more field lines are concentrated, or bundled.

2. Decreasing Phase ---> magnet or metal moves away from the field.
If magnet<>magnet is used this is the inescapable sticky spot.
But not in the case of the air core, because you can simply switch that off or even reverse it and the rotor will continue to spin towards it's next cycle without resistive sticky spot.
...

In other simple terms :
1. Increasing phase ---> the magnet or iron is attracted into the (electro)magnetic field, so the variation of flux through the coil implies a counter-EMF (Lenz's law) with the consequence that the generator must supply energy.
2. Decreasing phase ---> the magnet or metal moves away from the field. To switch-off current in the coil allows the continuation of the movement without the sticky point, right.

Congratulations, you have reinvented the electric commutated motor.

Quote
It can open your mind and it is very easy to do.
Sure. No body was aware of this great invention, the first achievements of which were manufactured in the 19th century and today improved and buyable on amazon.
;D ;D ;D  ::)


Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 08:10:43 AM »
See here is a real fallacy from your mind.
Nowhere is my explanation a commutator to be found yet your brain has added one in the search of a reference.
Because that is how your brain works, when it sees something, it starts to search the database of all the things that it has seen before, and will return the closes match, which in this case is: the electric commutated motor.

This way you will never find something new.
Funny thing is that just one line later it goes about keeping an open mind, well you just failed miserably at that !!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 08:10:43 AM »
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Offline F6FLT

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2018, 06:03:53 PM »
One assertion:
Nowhere is my explanation a commutator to be found yet your brain has added one in the search of a reference.

and its contrary:
you can simply switch that off or even reverse it and the rotor will continue to spin towards it's next cycle without resistive sticky spot.

To switch off or reverse current implies a switch or commutator, mechanical or electronic.

See here is a real fallacy from your mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 11:01:40 PM »
It's just so sad man.
Even if someone would show you a self runner and explain to you how it operates.
You would still explain it away because of your mental references that tell you its this or that and it can't work because of this and that and its sad to see people stuck.
But it is what it is you will never escape it I can yell you that much.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 11:01:40 PM »
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Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 11:03:51 PM »
Yes if fly6 was shown an overtunity device he would pull up Wikipedia to show everyone why it can not work hahahahaha

Offline F6FLT

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 11:15:00 AM »
It's just so sad man.
Even if someone would show you a self runner and explain to you how it operates.
You would still explain it away because of your mental references that tell you its this or that and it can't work because of this and that and its sad to see people stuck.
But it is what it is you will never escape it I can yell you that much.
Well, you should build your own runner and show it to us, instead of producing childish images without schematics, punctuated by pretentious remarks like "it can open the mind", when they are only basic conventional things whose functioning has been understood by everyone for a long time, as well as the uselessness regarding energy.
"it can open the mind"!  ::)  ;D, the mind of a donkey, perhaps.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2018, 11:15:00 AM »
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Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 01:17:05 AM »
You should is a command.
You do not command people you command dogs.
I am not your dog.

In stead you could build one of them.
Could is different from should.
I have gotten feedback from the people that tried.
They will take it further.
I don't count on you.
You are just a keyboard troll.

Offline F6FLT

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 12:37:54 PM »
You should is a command.
...
Only in your fallacious interpretations as inconsistent as those you shown in physics.
It's conditional, a polite advice.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 12:37:54 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2018, 07:31:27 AM »
Hi Vidar,

The thing I agree with you is that the setup should be built to see how it behaves. 
During the tests the weight should be changed to find the best match to the spring force at a certain RPM.  You do not want to use too heavy weight or too mild spring and / or the other way round.  Also, the RPM of the wheel should also be choosen not to let the spring being fully pressed when the weight just passes at the 6 o'clock position. 
And as I see this (and assuming the setup would at least self run under a no load condition), the useful shaft torque (the output) would be within a relatively narrow range (and I do not mean this a drawback).  Maximum shaft torque would be mainly defined by the magnets strength used in the V gate.
Gyula
You say "narrow range", which means this setup works best at a given resonance. The narrower the range, the higher Q-factor. However, any load to such a system will reduce the Q-factor, and therefor restrict the "willingness" of resonance. So the system will stop sooner.
That said, any resonance system suffers from loss. Even if the external load is zero, you have internal loss that will restrict resonance, so it will stop anyway.
Further, if you need a spring and a weight to assist a V-gate, note that none of these systems, nor a resonance system og a V-gate system works separately. So my question to you is; how can two non workable systems work when you combine them?
Because the resonance system cannot assist the V-gate, and the V-gate cannot assist the resonance system.
Well, that's my thoughts :-)


Vidar

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 03:26:08 PM »
Hej Vidar,

You sound clinging to the words 'narrow range'  I mentioned and from this you eventually conclude this setup is non workable and will stop.

And you introduce the word resonance for this setup and of course you are free to call the periodic up and down movement of the spring as a resonance but the working principle does not need such resonance, it is just a consequence of the rotating weight when it is coming down from the top towards the bottom and compresses the spring, and this displaces the wheel from the V gate's sticky point. The spring then gives back the stored energy by lifting up the wheel to its normal position again. 
It is ok that the V gate and the weight + spring are lossy and stop when they are built separately. But when you combine them as shown by the inventor, you need to build the setup to draw valid conclusions.
So I disagree with your thoughts.  :-)

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 03:26:08 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2018, 04:48:07 PM »
A spring, a weight, a narrow range. These three sounds like a resonance circuit to me, but that's me :-)


It should be easy to build though. Learning by experience is priceless education. I guess it takes less time to build it, than argue that it will work. Do you have plans to build a test model, btw? If I can help, please ask.


Vidar

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2018, 08:13:20 PM »
Hej Vidar,
Well, what you say is valid backwards too:  it takes less time to build this setup than argue that it will not work. 
It is the task for the inventor to build and test his ideas, I shared my views on his setup as you or others here did too. 
Thanks for offering help, by the way,  I may consider it,  will see. 

Gyula

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2018, 10:05:31 PM »

I think I will build this. 3D printed parts is easy, and as a spring, some length of stiff plastic will do - like leaf springs.
Then attach a weight that moves the wheel down and away from the sticky spot.
However, I think the sticky spot will occur earlier. And when you pull away the magnets, you will drag the stator field with it and also weaken the "efficiency".
Instead of a bouncing wheel, you can arch the V-track-end inwards a bit (towards the center of the wheel) to achieve the same increased spacing you want from the bounce method. It will probably work just as good, but with less engineering and complexity.


Vidar
Hej Vidar,
Well, what you say is valid backwards too:  it takes less time to build this setup than argue that it will not work. 
It is the task for the inventor to build and test his ideas, I shared my views on his setup as you or others here did too. 
Thanks for offering help, by the way,  I may consider it,  will see. 

Gyula

 

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