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Author Topic: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3  (Read 681 times)

Offline juliotony

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Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« on: November 03, 2018, 01:15:38 PM »
this is my idea...and you can see video in my youtube chanel :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csWqd_zchro

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 01:11:46 PM »
Hi Julio,

I answer your post here too, although you posted the same setup in another thread: https://overunity.com/17417/skinner-1939-gravity-machine-centrifugal-force-tests-and-hope/msg526777/#msg526777

And you have got some responses there, this thread you started would be better to discuss.
So the point is that your setup looks 'promising' because the usual sticky spot such magnetic gates have is greatly reduced by gravity (gravitational force stored in a spring). 
As Norman said in the other thread: go for it   i.e. build it.
Gyula

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 03:57:59 PM »
Hello  I think that spring and weight can be dropped as well
the top magnet needs to be replaced by a switched aircore coil.
Need some external power for start up but once it gets on speed... remove.
Even the simple reed switch will work but a uchip and hall sensor that adjust pulse width will improve efficiency many fold.

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 03:57:59 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 10:24:06 PM »
Hi Turbo,

It is an interesting simplification you are suggesting. I guess you mean replacing the top magnet with an air core coil I indicated with a green arrow and you did not mean replacing the magnet with the coil I encircled in green, right?
Please clarify, sorry for this dumb question...

My problem is that a coil and permanent magnet interaction always involves Lenz law and there can be no gain there, unless I miss something you really mean but have not mentioned.

Anyway, thanks for your addition, it reminds me of another interesting idea showed by someone many years ago in Stefan Hartmann's earlier yahoo mail group on free energy, see 2nd attachment. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a successful replication of his idea.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 11:40:15 PM »
Hello without iron core.
The aircore will not have any sticky point so there is no need to bridge the gap.(at all)
It only needs to be powered to start the thing.
Will start slowly and store kinetic energy and if that gate is good, speed up.


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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 11:40:15 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 12:26:03 AM »
Hi Turbo,

Well, "without iron core": this I understood.  What needs further understanding is how the stored kinetic energy can be 'profitable' versus the pulsed input energy to the coil?  I know you did not state anything 'profitable' but Julio's setup has the same chance, without any further input energy once it has started its spinning by a small input.

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
Hello there is no 'profitable' in those permanent magnet setups, i am sorry to read that you still believe in that.
If you light up a light bulb and show it to a primordial human they will think that you are a God.
Give them the light bulb, and they will spend the rest of their live trying to make it glow.
They do not know that you had a battery that supplied the necessary energy to heat up the filament.
The same is true for magnets.

In the case of magnetic fields, and this is important, the energy gain you and all others are so very interested in, is very small.
I can not say you all, but certainly most of the people are working on the wrong end of the spectrum.
What i mean by that it that most people are using the strongest magnets they can get their hands on combined with iron cored coils, with tremendous sticky spots, which completely nullify that feeble amount of the energy you so badly try to extract.
Consider it a tiny drop on a full bucket, it needs to be able to run freely, any resistance it encounters will make it vanish.

This means air cores and speed, and no sticky spots, any iron in it's vicinity will make it stop.

I hope you realize that the air core pulse width decreases with speed.
While induction increases with speed.
Of course there will be resistance when you try to load it so the loading mechanism has to have a specific timing degree as well, let's just say balanced loading..
But that's of no importance when you just leave that part out to start with.

I can even go further and say that you can swap the magnets for equally sized pieces of iron as long as you use the exact same construction of the gate.
That means you can omit the magnets entirely, does that answer your question about 'profitable' ?
Of course in that case it would become harder to load it, induction wise, and so it would be hard to create a feedback loop that makes the field of the aircore coil stronger on every cycle...
 
But that illustrates nicely that it's not really about those magnets, but focus more on (elektro)magnetic attraction.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 10:36:06 AM »
Hi Turbo,

On the word "profitable" I meant any extra energy available from your proposed setup beyond the input neccessary for a continuous operation.  If the extra energy is just enough for sustaining a continuous operation of the rotor,  that is already a gain in itself, a self-running situation. 

From your yesterday posts I see your proposed setup also needs an initial input for speeding the rotor up, then it would remain self sustaining and the start-up input could be removed.  Fine.
My problem with this is that  (and no offense intended)  what you say sounds like "Baro M√ľnchausen lifting himself up by his own hair" while the setup from Julio with the weight and spring does not sound like that for me.
Because then the setup would need to produce a little bit more energy than what would be needed to defeat air drag, coil loss, rectifier loss, uchip feed etc, just from the rotor's own kinetic energy (after the speed-up).

I understand that an increasing rotor speed involves a decreasing air core pulse and an increasing induction. I also understand what you mean by "the loading mechanism has to have a specific timing degree".

Well, it is very strange for me when you say the magnets can be swapped by equally sized iron pieces in the exact same construction of the gate...  In this case how can you maintain the initial input energy that was needed for speeding up the rotor ?
I know you did not say energy is created but how would you make the air cored coil's field stronger on every cycle with having iron pieces instead of the rotor magnets? 
Any further info you would kindly share would be appreciated. (I will not run to a patent office... do not care about such).

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 10:59:38 AM »
No the iron pieces can not be used to create the feedback loop.
I think you mis read that part.

If you want a simple demonstration about that free movement, take a piece of cloth wire and suspend some strong neodymium magnet in the air free to move.
You will see it will align itself to the earth's magnetic field.
Give it a spin and see what happens.
You will feel it cutting the lines of flux, you will see a point of resistance, and when you flip it over that, a point of release.
Imagine canceling out the point where it finds that most resistance by a small pulse on the air core.
I have had 'self spinners' by using cube magnets they spin until the resistance of the wound up cotton wire becomes too much.

It's not hard to try this im sure most of you guy's have a few magnets and some cotton wire laying around.

 

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 10:59:38 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2018, 09:43:47 PM »
Hi Turbo,

Well, I did not write the iron pieces can be used to create the feedback loop, rather I asked two questions in connection with your mention of replacing the permanent magnets with iron pieces.

Gyula

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2018, 02:34:21 AM »
The design is not new and has been around for quite some time, but ignored, because magnet<>magnet setups are the most reactive.

Hi Turbo,

Well, I did not write the iron pieces can be used to create the feedback loop, rather I asked two questions in connection with your mention of replacing the permanent magnets with iron pieces.

Gyula


I said that only to show that the magnets could be eliminated entirely and the thing would still rotate without any magnets.

That by itself should show you that the magnetic field is not the magnet, remove the permanent magnet, the thing still rotates, obviously it shows that the magnetic field is a property of space itself !
I have been trying to get this across for many years but it never registers with anybody..
The magnets are only a lens that concentrate what is already present everywhere.

In simple terms:

1. Increasing Phase ---> magnet or iron is being attracted into the (elektro)magnetic field, the closer it gets, the more field lines are concentrated, or bundled.

2. Decreasing Phase ---> magnet or metal moves away from the field.
If magnet<>magnet is used this is the inescapable sticky spot.
But not in the case of the air core, because you can simply switch that off or even reverse it and the rotor will continue to spin towards it's next cycle without resistive sticky spot.

The experiment with the free moving magnets is important.
It can open your mind and it is very easy to do.
The minimal resistance setup enables you to see and discover more.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2018, 02:34:21 AM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2018, 09:58:09 AM »
hi Turbo
You say you could replace all the magnets with iron pieces and still have rotation?
You will still need at least one magnet to create attraction of the iron , at the start the first piece is the farthest away and
as the wheel rotates each piece gets progressively closer, the last piece will be the closest, so stop the wheel.That's where you need to pulse an attractive force to pull the wheel through and begin again.But now you need so form of supply input.artv

Offline Turbo

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Re: Perpetual motion based V track or V gate 3
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2018, 07:48:51 PM »
hi Turbo
You say you could replace all the magnets with iron pieces and still have rotation?
You will still need at least one magnet to create attraction of the iron , at the start the first piece is the farthest away and
as the wheel rotates each piece gets progressively closer, the last piece will be the closest, so stop the wheel.That's where you need to pulse an attractive force to pull the wheel through and begin again.But now you need so form of supply input.artv


No magnets, no sticky spot.
That it the whole point i was making.

The iron is attracted to the field surrounding the air core coil, no magnets involved.


 

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