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Author Topic: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.  (Read 24478 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2021, 01:10:50 AM »
LOOK

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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2021, 07:39:07 AM »
@Rakarskiy

Now I see. This book of yours is a book of satire and humor.

This device you have posted in   РЁС-ВЕДРО.png  is it representative of the
kinds of designs in your joke book, yes?

  floor

A very good "joke" to make you hysterical.  One very good person gave me the advice to just put it all on the net: "let the keepers of secrets in patents, jump on the chair"


Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2021, 10:45:56 AM »
Thank you Mr. Rakarskiy

Your pdf. is an interesting read, with many good formulas and some novel and good ideas as well.

I particularly enjoyed the method employed to maintain or recycle most of the head (pressure)
at the intake of the water pump.  Nice.

While I do not  however (from the pdf presented) conclude that this device can self run.  I feel certain that your book contains many examples of usefull designs, and much valuable information. I would recommend it on this account. 

It is perhaps unfortunate for us all that no one has, as yet presented us an electric generator and motor system which is, in itself over unity.

best wishes
   floor








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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2021, 10:45:56 AM »
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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2021, 01:06:20 PM »
Floor,

Over Unity, only possible with linear transformation.
In the closed version, only with self-sufficient movement. If the source of energy is a generator, then its energy is always equal to 1, part of the energy goes to self-propelled, and the residual energy to the consumer is divided by 1 (generator). We always get COP less than 1. At the same time, we do not have external infusions to obtain energy.

Yours sincerely

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2021, 06:58:21 PM »
@ rakarskiy

By your definition of an "autonomous hydrogenerator"....

Would a device design in which 2 wires connecting the 2 poles of a functioning lead acid
battery to 2 electrodes which are submerged in sea water, qualify as an "autonimous
hydrogenerator"?

There is perhaps some ambiguity in translation ?

In the English language, the word "autonomous" can easily be interpreted as meaning over unity.

Also I think that because water is not compressible as are gases, the same principles do not apply
to water circulating in a system, as will apply to a compression, combustion and expanding gas system (turbines, ramjets and so on).

               This is just as I understand it though.
  Thanks again
    floor





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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2021, 06:58:21 PM »
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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2021, 11:47:58 AM »
My reader, who advised to lay out everything openly, https://drive.google.com/file/d/10GudcqqKmmcF402vLxZHp5L6LWdTYoek/view
and other hydraulic engineers who were impressed by this design identified the expansion diffuser in front of the outlet as the most vulnerable point in the design. Yes, indeed, in a simple calculation, everything is simple and does not contradict the laws of hydraulics. But the coefficient of pressure loss, or rather speed, depends on the cavitation processes. And the most interesting thing is that all this is well studied, there are corresponding solutions. For example, the diameter of the maximum expansion is 182 mm, the diameter of the outlet pipe of the pump is 75 mm, the length of the diffuser cone, with an expansion angle of 6 degrees, will be about 1200 mm. Hydraulics claims that a long diffuser can cause cavitation, which will increase flow resistance. And one more detail - it is technically very difficult and expensive to make such a transition with polishing the inner surface in the mirror. Again, there are solutions for the cascade variant of the diffusion transition. Firstly, we can increase the angle and decrease the length of the diffuser (cavitation at a cone angle of 10-50 g starts from the middle, which means that in the middle (or better, closer to the inlet diameter) there should be a pipe section of the transition section. If at an angle of 40 degrees, the drag coefficient ξ = 0.5, then at 6 degrees = 0.07 (but the possibility of cavitation remains.) I calculated the cascade in four links, received the indicators in each section: (1 section 20 degrees) ξ = 0.046; (2 section 20 degrees) ξ = 0.043; (3 section 25 degrees) ξ = 0.042; (4 section -15 degrees) ξ = 0.041 It turns out that even if the length of this section increases to 1500-1700 mm, the resistance to fluid flow decreases. reality, it will decrease.In the nozzle zone at the corresponding angle, a negative resistance is obtained equal to ξ = - 0.68
PS. A hydraulics worker at an oil refinery wrote to me about the cascade implementation of the diffusion transition task. They have such tricks when pumping gasoline into the channel. Later, I found a brief reference to this possibility in academic sources.

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2021, 07:05:55 AM »
At the pressures and temperatures which can be generated by the pump,  there will be no
compression or cavitation or expansion of the water in the pipe system.

Restricting the nozzle outlet decreases the water volume flowing through it.
This will also increase the pressure in the pipe system as compared to what the
pressure within the system would be if the nozzle opening were larger.

The pressure within the pipe can only go as high as the pump can deliver and
then only while the nozzle is completely closed.

The energy and / or power available from the water that is jettisoned  from the
nozzle, is the product of both the speed of the water exiting the nozzle and the
volume of that water.

If we increase the speed by narrowing the nozzle we decrease the volume.
If we increase the volume by enlarging the nozzle opening we decrease the
speed of the water as it exits.

Increasing the cross section of the pipe reduces turbulence and friction within the
water flow / pipe.

Restricting the pipe diameter in any way will decrease the volume of
water flowing in the pipe. 

One can increase the speed of the water flow, but one cannot in this way increase
the energy present as that flow.   

In such cases we can trade speed for volume or volume for speed, but the total
energy remains essentially the same.

Also, any restricting of the pipe diameter will only decrease the energy available
at the nozzle.  This is due to friction losses within the pipe / turbulence.

But then I am sure that you must already be aware of these things.

  floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2021, 07:05:55 AM »
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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2021, 11:58:37 AM »
At the pressures and temperatures which can be generated by the pump,  there will be no
compression or cavitation or expansion of the water in the pipe system.

Restricting the nozzle outlet decreases the water volume flowing through it.
This will also increase the pressure in the pipe system as compared to what the
pressure within the system would be if the nozzle opening were larger.

The pressure within the pipe can only go as high as the pump can deliver and
then only while the nozzle is completely closed.

The energy and / or power available from the water that is jettisoned  from the
nozzle, is the product of both the speed of the water exiting the nozzle and the
volume of that water.

If we increase the speed by narrowing the nozzle we decrease the volume.
If we increase the volume by enlarging the nozzle opening we decrease the
speed of the water as it exits.

Increasing the cross section of the pipe reduces turbulence and friction within the
water flow / pipe.

Restricting the pipe diameter in any way will decrease the volume of
water flowing in the pipe. 

One can increase the speed of the water flow, but one cannot in this way increase
the energy present as that flow.   

In such cases we can trade speed for volume or volume for speed, but the total
energy remains essentially the same.

Also, any restricting of the pipe diameter will only decrease the energy available
at the nozzle.  This is due to friction losses within the pipe / turbulence.

But then I am sure that you must already be aware of these things.

  floor

These are nothing more than quotes. I don't even want to argue. I posted everything publicly. The idea was based on Bernoulli's rules. The problem of local resistances and minimization of cavitation processes is solved and methods of absolute minimization are found.
In front of the nozzle, for example, we have a speed of 0.3 m / s and a pressure of 14 atmospheres (1.4 MPa), which will correspond to a pressure of H - 144 meters (1 atmosphere = 10.33227 meters). The nozzle has a conical (conoidal) shape at the base of 182 mm and at the exit 25 mm at an angle of, for example, 40 degrees. Let's say it has a container 145 m high, 80 mm in diameter, at the base of the side nozzles, a cone of 182/25 mm with a cone angle of 40 degrees. Count and show what is wrong, I will answer by calculation!
Theses are more for trolls, the engineer loves calculation. There is no conflict with the textbook. By the way, the hydraulic technicians (practitioners) are just interested and don't draw positive or negative conclusions.

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2021, 04:40:29 PM »
I'm not questioning Bernoulli's theorem, or the math presented. 

I am simply stating an observation that...
no efficiency increase will be obtained from the present design, which would be
greater than, if one simply eliminates any sharp turns in the pipe while also increasing
the diameter of the pipe over the entire length (both, from the supply tank to pump and
also from the pump to the nozzle).

best wishes.
  floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2021, 04:40:29 PM »
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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2021, 09:41:27 PM »
The book (new edition) contains material about a cascade diffuser. An element has been added to the calculator for calculating the cascade of channel expansion from diffusers.

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2021, 01:20:50 AM »
@ all readers

The diffuse cascading  or otherwise, has no applicable value to the.......

battery powered pump / nozzle / Pelton  type water wheel / generator device

                          as presented in Mr. Rakarskiy's     02_ENG_HHP_SELF.pdf .
                                         (This device runs on a battery). 

The  pump / nozzle / Pelton  type water wheel / generator,  arrangement, only,
and  greatly decrease the amount of usable energy that would otherwise
have been available directly from the battery or from the battery and then
through a DC to AC converter.

The described diffuser system is only useful in gas systems.

   floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2021, 01:20:50 AM »
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Offline rakarskiy

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2021, 10:05:32 PM »
@ all readers

The diffuse cascading  or otherwise, has no applicable value to the.......

battery powered pump / nozzle / Pelton  type water wheel / generator device

                          as presented in Mr. Rakarskiy's     02_ENG_HHP_SELF.pdf .
                                         (This device runs on a battery). 

The  pump / nozzle / Pelton  type water wheel / generator,  arrangement, only,
and  greatly decrease the amount of usable energy that would otherwise
have been available directly from the battery or from the battery and then
through a DC to AC converter.

The described diffuser system is only useful in gas systems.

   floor

The language of an engineer is a calculation and a drawing. If your arguments are just words that are not supported by anything, then this is the opinion of an ordinary person, nothing more.
I think whoever is interested will figure it out. Liquid is a very interesting medium. Difficult, but very interesting. Water has a lot of potential, after acceleration it increases quadratically.

In general, a very interesting article in Russian. It is not related to my device, but it is very interesting.
http://vitanar.narod.ru/laval1/laval1.html

Offline Floor

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2021, 11:31:26 PM »
The formulas do not say the same things you are say.

Your arguements are Bull Sh_t.

And so you reveal what was immediately apearant, although you were given
some benefit of the doubt. You are just another hukster.

If you see Kay....
   Why...
      Oh...
       You,
           can tell her for me,  walk away.




Offline Cadman

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Re: The book is dedicated to self-propelled mechanical generating devices.
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2021, 04:18:02 PM »
Rakarskiy,

You can't expect your calculations to be taken seriously if your base numbers are wrong.

The HF6B pump you cite on page 16 has a maximum working pressure of 1.47 bar. https://torujyri.ee/en/high-flow-pumps/957-centrifugal-pump-hf6b-pedrollo.html

Then you state: H - 12 meters (2.1 atm/1.4 bar). No, 12 meters of head is 1.176 bar.

Then you write: 4 meters is 1.4 atmospheres. No, it's 0.387 atm.

Then on page 18, "The height of the water in the tank (surface - points of water intake by the pump) is 0.7 meters." followed by the first line in your table of calculations "Pump outlet pipe" and give a pump pressure of 2.16 atm, which exceeds the Maximum working pressure of your pump by a large margin.

There is no point in continuing.

https://www.convertunits.com/from/meters+head/to/bar
https://www.convertunits.com/from/meter+of+head/to/atmosphere+[standard]
https://www.convertunits.com/from/bar/to/atm


 

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