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Author Topic: Finsrud perpetual motion machine  (Read 72494 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« on: April 02, 2005, 06:55:21 PM »
Hi All,
check out the latest pages abour the Reidar Finsrud machine at:

http://www.reidar-finsrud.com/sider/mobile/mobile.html

I know several people, who have visited him and have seen
and video taped his device.

It runs for about a month, until the glue is dried out,
that holds the permanent magnets inside the footer.

If he uses better glue, it will run longer.
This I was told about 5 years ago. Maybe he already has now better
viscosity glue for the magnets.

It seems to be some kind of chaotic vibration effect together
with the magnet attraction setup and removeable attraction arms, what keeps
this ball rolling.

This is probably also a case, where the magnets get a bit colder and
it extracts the energy from the surrounding heat energy of the magnets.

If you ever go to Norway, please visit him and post a few new pictures !
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2005, 04:14:14 AM by hartiberlin »

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Offline emcsquaredmike

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2005, 11:40:41 AM »
  The perpetual motion machine looks like it works!  Would like to get more info on device. Thanks!

Offline Gumboots2u

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2005, 07:17:57 PM »
  Hi Stefan

  I emailled Reidar and got a reply as to permission to replicate . He said OK but to make sure it was regarded as art and not to
 profit from it. As well as making sure he was recogniized for his work. Alll of which of I had no problem dealing with.

    This was a couple of months. ago and I am in the process of clearing off a clockwork art piece for a customer ,, then I will
 
   proceed with the replication attempt.

      Truly Mac.

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2005, 07:17:57 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2005, 07:29:20 PM »
Okay Mac, let us know of your progress to rebuild it.
It seems there must be some "jittering" of the unit to get the magnetic action
in the footer to tilt back and forth permanently.
Will be probably pretty hard to setup all the motions in sync !
That is why he needed 12 Years to have all parameters lined up right.
Regards, Stefan.

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Offline Gumboots2u

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 04:31:50 PM »
  I am assuming that it will be a major challenge to get going correctly. I am most interested in a direct hands on observation of
 his chaos principle.   A few years ago the gentleman who did the write up and pictures on Don Adsitts site was here in Ontario.
   He was here to see David Hamiel  and I was very fortunate that he also took some time and stayed with us . His visit to
 Reidar's place was one of the topics we covered.   Johns conversation with Reidar highlighted the fact that the machine ran more
 on probablility than on energy{ sort of  like Douglas Adams probability drive } , which translated lightly means that the chance of it
 coming to rest relied on the probability that everthing synchroniised to slow it down. It operated more on instability than a source
  of energy.   I'll be starting with the chaos penduluum  first, then branching out. It may not look like his machine when it is done
 because my focus is on the chaos, and further if it does end up looking like his machine then it will be because the principle led
 me in that direction.   Lets see what happens.   

     Truly Mac.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 04:31:50 PM »
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Offline freeenergyman2005

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 06:21:41 AM »
Where can I see a photo or video of this device? May I have permision to replicate it?
I've been working on Don Adsitt's magnetic ramping design for some time, but have not been able to get it to complete a cycle more than a few times before ot quits. :-\

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 04:47:20 PM »
Freeenergyman,
youi can see pics and a movie here:

http://www.reidar-finsrud.com/sider/mobile/foto.html

Please report about your magnet ramp.

How many times did you get to loop it ?
Why not more ?
Do the magnets stick to the track ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 04:47:20 PM »
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Offline freeenergyman2005

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 06:05:17 AM »
Stefan, the finsrud machine looks fairly complicated; very polished. Far more so than my lowly magnetic ramp motor. I drew from the concepts posted on Don Adsitt's site 'The very last page of the internet', which, incidently, was not accessible because the domain name had expired as of yesterday; I hope this isn't permanent. I also used the concepts from freeenergyforever.com which is Dennis Lee's site, on his 'Case for Free Energy' video about 9.5 minutes into the tape. According to Don Adsitt, Dennis Lee is a scammer. Nevertheless, I found the concept of magnetic ramping to be valid in both cases on both sites.

I used a pair of 360 degree helixes for my ramps, which I spaced apart in mirror image fashon. The ceramic block magnets are attached end to end, North facing up on the lower track and oppposite on the down facing track. The effect is that the magnetic field increases as an armature, which has four arms spaced at 90 degrees, rotates from the widest point to the most narrow point. Indeed the magnets, opposite poles facing the tracks, on top and bottom of the brass inertial mass are readily 'sucked' into the shaped magnetic field. The problem is that once the armature reaches the most narrow point of the stator it comes to rest after only a couple of rotations due to the intense attraction. By using the rollercoaster drop demonstrated by Adsitt, there is no abrupt end, and there is in fact a tapering off, though, alas, not an elimination, of the strong attraction associated with the end of the magnetic track. Having said that, I've only gotten four or five rotations after a slight nudge. Still I'm encouraged that this configuration might be optimized, despite the crude construction; there is significant friction loss, to be sure. To watch it, it obviously so much wants to work, yet it eventually, grudgingly, stops working.

Howard Malone

Offline Kysmett

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2005, 03:03:06 AM »
Is there any formula that dictates the strength of the attraction to the 'sticking' point, as a function of the strength of attraction in the gate.  I guess what I mean to ask was this: first, were the number of gates the same as, or an even factor/multiple of, the number of armatures?  if not, then how many armatures that are influenced to move does it take to overcome one that is influenced not to move.  I am thinking more and more lately of phi numbers....(regretably becoming more evident in my posting, for which I appologize).  I plan to build a simmilar apparatus in the next eight weeks, and I think that I will use eight arms and 13 gates, this will ensure that there will always be 7 bodies with a positive force for every one passing through the sticking point.

Most of the materials I do not have yet, so any advice or knowledge to the contrary of the above would be appreciated before I make the investment, modest though it might be. 

Thanks

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2005, 03:03:06 AM »
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Offline freeenergyman2005

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2005, 06:25:16 AM »
Hello, Kysmett.

You're talking a little over my head, but I get the gist of your message. I used four armatures @ 90 degrees separature in my machine and, as I mentioned, had my ramps facing each other and arranged in mirror image. So, I guess, if I understand your meaning, I have one gate with the ramps being three inches apart at the gap, opening to five inches at the begining of the run. There is a one inch rise over 4' and 9 1/2', as my stator is 18" in diameter. It appears there isn't enough force of attraction through the run to force the armature through the gap without losing a little momentum as each armature passes. I have a total of 52 ceramic block magnets, purchased at Ace Hardware for $0.88 each, including eight in the armatures. Therefore, I have three inertial masses with positive force for the one passing through the gap, or gate.

I'm open to suggestions.

Howard


Offline Kysmett

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2005, 02:56:08 PM »
I wonder.  How did you employ the magnets in the armature?  What was your pole orientation.  Is there anyway you could post a sketch of your configuration? 

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2005, 02:56:08 PM »
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Offline freeenergyman2005

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2005, 05:32:05 AM »
Picture a vertical axle supported by ball bearings at each end with a hub in the center from which four arms, each supporting a mass (brass weight with a ceramic block magnet mounted top and bottom) perpendicular to the axel and spaced 90 degrees to each other. The ramps are parallel and horizontal to each other and, as I mentioned, are off set split rings forming 360 degree helixes in mirror image. The armatures move on a horizontal plane and parallel to the plane of the ramps.

The easiest way to view the configuration I used is to visit freeenergyforever.com and open the Real Player entitled 'The case for free energy' and scroll nine and a half minutes into the video.

A close friend and engineer, Bob Bailey, told me the reason Dennis Lee stoped the armature after one revolution was not, as I had thought, to prevent me from seeing continuous motion, but rather to prevent me from seeing that it didn't have sustained motion. He was right. After every variation I've tried it simply will not maintain revolutions.

Consequently, I've dismantled the machine to use the magnets in a different configuration. Don Adsitt's site, http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/menu/adsitt.htm has hidden nothing in his videos. He succinctly demonstrates the method of closing the loop through the use of stepped ramping with a free rolling magnet over a track that is contoured to the height of the magnets; very simple and easy to build. I suppose you might say it is a variation of the SMOT device.

I had thought I would use my rotor/stator unit to generate electricity by placing an iron core coil inline to the motion of the armature. Instead, I will use the motion of a free rolling magnetic cylinder over a circular track to induce current in an inline coil; much more simple and virtually without friction loss.

Howard

Offline vectortan

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2005, 08:06:43 PM »
Quick thought, magnetic ramps are great and all, but to enter or exit a ramp (depending on which poles you use) any energy gained is lost. If you gain 4MPH through the ramp 4MPH will be lost entering or exiting the ramp for each and every arm you use. I would think that using an electromagnet for the entry or exit (again depending on pole orientation) to pulse so you don't lose all your inertia you gained may help solve your problem.

Furthermore, I'm thinking a set of capacitors and diodes could pass that electromagnetism onto another electromagnet for a different arm on its own ramp which would need to be timed properly, and so on until a full circle is complete (which would require a lot of arms and ramps - electricity flows at he speed of light).

Only problem with timing it for it's 'sweet spot' is it would have a difficult time working properly while it's speeding up. The triggers would need to move further away from the electromagnet as the armature speeded up, but I think the process would function properly if there is little or no variation on speed.

Does this make sense to anyone?

Offline freeenergyman2005

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2005, 06:54:01 AM »
Well, I'm not sure I want to start playing with electromagnets and triggers. From what I've seen of the last experiments posted, from which I posted the URL, of the Adsitt ramp the solution is purely magnetic attraction and mechanics. I was wrong, though, about virtually no friction loss; it does exist. However, the force of magnetic attraction is so strong as to accelerate despite such losses.

I am no inventor. On the other hand, I'm not too bad a tinkerer, and I like stuff I can replicate from materials available at the hardware store. Below is the URL of the stepped ramp.  The travel is from left to right. I hope it will come up for you, as I don't know how to post it otherwise. It takes Gorilla Glue to set and hold the magnets once they are stacked in close proximity like this. The videos show a magnetic button cylinder traversing a track configuration of mutiple steps, completing a circle and gaining height. I certainly don't see why it couldn't be joined as is end to end and keep running.

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/magneticExp/adsitt/photos/topview.jpg

Howard

Offline vectortan

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Re: Finsrud perpetual motion machine
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2005, 04:34:21 AM »
I watched most of the videos from the URL you posted. It is hard to see, but the reason it can't be joined end to end is because while the cylinder magnets are 'being pulled' along the track, it is moving closer to the magnets underneath the plexiglass and you can only get so close before the magnets would be touching the underside of the plexiglass. The one video that irritated me the most was the half circle one with the pathetic excuse that they didn't have a full size sheet available to use for the experiment, when the actual reason was they did use a full circle one and there was no way they could get it to work. I watched very closely and replayed several times the 'break away' video, where it went along the track then disconnected and rolled off the end and noticed that it was actually lower in height when it was free from the magnet track. Nothing special there. No extra energy can gained from this. Even if you did get the perfect setup with no friction and it was able to spin round and round, you wouldn't be able to get any energy out of it because it would be expending ALL of it's energy just to keep going and there would be nothing special about that because an object in motion will continue to stay in motion until an outside force interferes with it. I do admit it is an impressive trick that is done with magnets, but nothing more than that.

I mean, I can lift a 1lb. rock 5 feet off the ground and let it go, it will move downward and actually accelerate until it hits the ground. Then I can take a 1lb. piece of rubber and drop that 5 feet from the ground, when that one hits the ground it will move away from the ground and fall again. Does that mean that the peice of rubber expends less energy than the rock? More? The correct answer is it expends the same amount of energy.

What I'm trying to say is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get more energy out of a system than what you put in. However, Bedinni claims that he is utilizing an unknown form of fuel (Aether energy) for his device which from simple observation and measurements would look like overunity, the only thing bothering me about his device is that he won't let an outside party investigate it, just like that Gray guy, and that smells like fraud to me.

Finsrud, on the other hand has, and I have the utmost respect for him that he did not claim to acheive PM or overunity (he referred to it as a moving sculpture; art) and DID allow an outside party investigate it and they did find that it is expending a minute amount of energy and would eventually stop on it's own (they actually calculated the exact amount of energy it was expending to several decimal places) and everyone was and still is happy. But if you where to place it in a perfect vaccuum and put the ball on a frictionless track and replaced the bearings with magnetic bearings, it would keep going, but so would a toy top.

So am I saying we should give up on attempting to acheive overunity? No, because someone could mess up in their experiment and stumble upon a new form of energy that is abundant and exchangeable into electricity... plus it's fun to try too.

What am I working on? I am kind of in the wrong area here I see, but I am in the process of building the Bedinni motor/generator and have a few ideas to change on it that I havent heard anyone mention about yet. After reading about Tesla, I believe he figured out a way to convert Aether energy into electricty in mass quantities and was intending to build a power station for the entire world out of a warehouse until he was 'persuaded' to stop, so I do believe there is another form of energy out there that no one has been able to undeniably prove of it's existence yet, yeah, kinda like God.

If I unlock the secret and do find a way to acheive 'free energy' the first thing I will do is spread the designs to build it all over the internet before I do anything else because I don't think the oil barons and those with high stakes in electricity production will idly stand by and let me or anyone profit on something that groundbreaking, causing their stocks to drop like that 1lb rock. We do need something like that because we are all viscously addicted to electricity and the resources to make it in mass quantities are limited and greed is on the rise, plus I can't take it with me!

To those of you attempting it, I wish you the best of luck, I hope you mess up and in the process accidently discover the incredible!

Vectortan

 

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