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Author Topic: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator  (Read 16853 times)

fleebell

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2006, 12:35:04 AM »

[/quote]

Lee, there are a lot better units than the BASIC Stamp, let me know before you go buy one (and cheaper ones too) and I will get you a list of the latest good ones.  Of tell when what you need and I might have time to make one for you (if you have the specs you need).  Doing two no for others.

I built myself three small boards I use to zap out fast prototypes.  An 8pin chip, 18 pin chip and one with both.  And all of the chips have the same pinout, just different features (ADC, comparators, etc).

Or blueroomelectronics.com a new startup has some nice boards (firefly and a couple others but you need an ISP or ICD2 to program them).  I have one board I made to teach my 14 year old that is a good starter board I can send you (PCB layout).
[/quote]

Thanks for the offer but I already have 3 basic stamps that I have been using for 3-4 years now in various robot projects. They are a bit slow true but one should still probably work ok for this. I'm not in any realy hurry anyway as I have a few projects in line ahead of that one.   Standard old story, too many ideas and not enough time or money to complete them all.  I'm currently working on a rankine heat engine system I'm trying to design... It requires a bit more math than I'm used to working with and I'm trying to learn and understand that stuff first before I start another project.

Lee

MeggerMan

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2006, 04:31:43 PM »
Hi Stefan,
I hate to rain on your parade, but at some point you mentioned that there appears to be no drag on the magnet when it passes the coil.
I have tested this theory with a spool of 0.5Kg x 0.4mm enamelled copper wire and 8 ceramic magnet and there IS drag on the magnet when you short out the coil or apply a load to it.  It has an air core but this will be even more significant with an iron core.
See post ...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,919.msg19154.html#msg19154

Regards

Rob

hartiberlin

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2006, 11:36:31 PM »
Hi Rob,
surely there is drag in the output coil.
But it can be reduced by using the Newman pronciple,
by shortening out the output coil and open the output coil circuit
very fast , so you have lots of RF bursts on a mechanical switch.
If you put then a incand. bulb in series the RF bursts
will light up the bulb and the toggling magnet inside the output coil
is not dragged too much.

Also the is no direct feedback of the output coil to the input coil,
as they are 90 degrees rotated to each other,
so drawing current from theoutput coil will only
reduce the motion of the output coil magnet , but not directly
required more input current from the input coil.

Regards, Stefan.
Will now post a graphic file of it.

hartiberlin

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2006, 11:44:58 PM »
Here is the picture about it
attached to this message.

Just a basic schematic.
You need to pulse the blue primary coil
with about 7.8 Hz square wave.
The green ouput coil is then shorted out via
a sparkgap from 2 dissimular metals, like
graphite-copper or copper-chrom
and in series with the output coil is an incandescent
bulb, which will light up due to the RF bursts on the coil
output wire.
Both coils are orthogonal (90 degrees rotated) to each other,
so they can not influence each other directly...

The bigger and stronger the magnets and the
bigger and bigger  wire size the coils have, the better.
Here the used mass of the copper and the magnets counts in !

Regards, Stefan.

MeggerMan

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2006, 11:20:03 PM »
This is not too unlike the MEG idea.
Altering a field provided by a permanent magnet.
Quite clever if you can not directly influence the output coil with the input coil.
Have you had any success with this yet?

Regards

Rob

Bessler007

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 02:39:04 AM »
Why should the energy used to toggle the first magnet (that is magnetically coupled to the second magnet) induce more power into the second coil than what was pulsed in the first coil?

What am I missing here?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 04:01:44 AM by Bessler007 »

f_dyne

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Bessler007

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2008, 06:57:20 AM »
Hello f_dyne,

I'm still not getting it.

What is the advantage of having an electrical impulse in Coil(one) convert to mechanical energy moving Magnet(one) then transfering that mechanical energy to Magnet(two) with a magnetic coupling converting back to electrical energy in Coil(two)?

Is there a gain in the conversion from electrical to mechanical then back to electrical energy?  If so what is the means this happens?

Are you saying this is an example of TPU or MEG or in some way is taping into the ether?  I just don't see the mechanism for this.

hartiberlin

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2008, 10:57:19 AM »
As the 2 coils are 90 degrees to each other,
you have not the normal transformer effect ,
where drawing more output power
also has to put in more input power.
Also you will propbably have a mechanical phase shift
due to the toggling of the permanent magnets,
so you can decouple input energy to output energy.

Then the output energy only depends how big you make
the magnets and coils.
If you let the input energy stay constant you can get more energy
out, when you scale up the coils and magnets.


In my view there will be one point, where the output energy
will be bigger than the input energy, when the sizes are scaled
up big enough.
Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 12:13:06 AM »
Just 2 aircore coils,
where the 2 permanent magnets
can shake up and down and around inside.

It could be even better when the output coil
is periodically shorted out each few milliseconds and then the BackEMF is
applied to the output load.
This way  the drag onto the output permanent magnet can be reduced.

Pirate88179

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2008, 01:32:32 AM »
Stefan:

Fantastic idea there!  I think that with a little experimentation, you might be able to close the loop on this one.  I like the idea of the spherical magnets also.  Excellent job!

Bill

f_dyne

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Re: HOG01 Hartmann Orthogonal Generator
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2008, 06:49:36 PM »
Hello f_dyne,

I'm still not getting it.

What is the advantage of having an electrical impulse in Coil(one) convert to mechanical energy moving Magnet(one) then transfering that mechanical energy to Magnet(two) with a magnetic coupling converting back to electrical energy in Coil(two)?

Is there a gain in the conversion from electrical to mechanical then back to electrical energy?  If so what is the means this happens?

Are you saying this is an example of TPU or MEG or in some way is taping into the ether?  I just don't see the mechanism for this.

Hello Bessler and you all,

I wanted you to know the only EM overunity theorical process I could find so far.
You can build a machine using this principle in a lot of ways, also through an orthogonal generator, but you absorb energy from the same source, that is from the air, indirectly through a transformer-like effect.
In this case, you should obtain more overunity raising the frequencies, raising the magnet flux, lowering the voltages and with other choices as explained in the pages I gave you.

F_dyne