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Author Topic: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible  (Read 4244 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 06:33:13 AM »
Yes, what concerns field then, the two poles of the magnetic field, when one attracts, then the other repulses. This is not mirror image, if it were mirror image, then either both attract, or both repulse.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline lumen

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 07:02:57 AM »
The interaction between two magnets is something that has been tested by many and every test that I have made indicates that it cannot work because the fields are circular and all forces are accounted for in any direction.
I have recently found something that has not been covered in this forum and I'm very excited about what it may result in.

It also gave me a new insight into a new all magnet motor design that just might also be possible using this concept. I'm not going to post the new concept until I can verify that this concept has good merit but I will say that I have the first prototype fully constructed except for the ceramic bearings that were lost in the mail.

Online forest

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 10:52:44 PM »
When the repulsion of magnets is used to rotate magnet out of sticky point in a clever way then it may self-run.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 10:52:44 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline onepower

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 06:04:41 PM »
Lumen
Quote
The interaction between two magnets is something that has been tested by many and every test that I have made indicates that it cannot work because the fields are circular and all forces are accounted for in any direction.
I have recently found something that has not been covered in this forum and I'm very excited about what it may result in.

The magnetic far field is generally circular not unlike electric fields but not the near field, it is not circular in any science textbook unless the magnet is circular. So anyone who has actually read a science textbook should know better than to make false statements that the field is circular in every case... it is not.

Regarding "something that cannot work", everything we know today was thought impossible 1000 years ago. Everyone said that cannot work, it is impossible and as we know all the critics were completely wrong about almost everything. Thus in a very real sense the critics own ignorance to the facts becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for them which is why they never accomplish anything of substance. They are what we call losers in layman's terms because history has shown they generally always lose. They are always saying you cannot do that... but someone always does.

As well many critics like to take everything out of context and move the goal posts. Logically it may be very difficult to take two magnets and have them move or interact in such a way as to produce excess work or energy. However we know an external field from a coil can manipulate a permanent magnetic field. As such if the work to manipulate a field is less than the work the manipulated fields produce then extra work is possible. The mistake most people make is in thinking they somehow know or understand every conceivable way in which the fields could interact. There are literally millions of possible combinations of interactions thus we can presume most critics are wrong which is most often the case.

The fact is we do not know, that is the only correct answer... we do not know yet but I suspect we will soon.

Offline onepower

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 07:06:38 PM »
One mistake I see many people making is using large iron cored coils with permanent magnets. We were taught that an iron core concentrates an external magnetic field. Which begs the question, why in the hell would we want to concentrate the external PM field within the coil when we know the coils magnetic field must then overcome this concentrated field to have an effect?. It's like saying I want to go faster in my car so let's ride the brakes for a bit while were at it.

At which point we can begin to see normal is not really normal in any sense of the word. Creating more problems and more complexity due to our own lack of understanding is not normal. Logically we would want a coil which is invisible to the PM field until we want to produce an interaction and only then would the coil interact. We would want to guide or change the field structure or geometry in some way which benefits us in some way. Normally, people should think about what they are doing rather than just do what everyone else is doing without thinking.

If we want to learn something then we need to think about every action we take. Ask ourselves why am I doing this in this particular way?, to what end?, is this the best way?, what other ways are there which may give a different result?. Just doing something because everyone else does it is obviously a lesson in stupidity because we already know the result... it's always the same. Everything must be questioned on every level every step of the way.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 07:06:38 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline telecom

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 07:48:46 PM »
The patent which I've referenced earlier gives exact measurement data.
They indicate, that there was a net gain of the energy of approximately 20 %.
It also even provides some dimensions of the magnets and  an interesting design
of the set up of two magnets with springs.
The sprigs  work as an energy storage, allowing completing the cycle.

Offline lumen

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 09:01:51 PM »
I used to think that power could be generated in a symmetric field like the homopolar generator is thought to operate, or how the homopolar motor is thought to operate, but in fact neither operates as thought.

Once you know how they actually operate, things become more understandable and there is new insight into how the field must be controlled in any attempt to build a magnet motor.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 09:01:51 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline telecom

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 09:22:17 PM »
I used to think that power could be generated in a symmetric field like the homopolar generator is thought to operate, or how the homopolar motor is thought to operate, but in fact neither operates as thought.

Once you know how they actually operate, things become more understandable and there is new insight into how the field must be controlled in any attempt to build a magnet motor.
Can you shed some light on how they actually work?

Offline lumen

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2018, 05:28:58 AM »
Can you shed some light on how they actually work?

Yes, in fact you can also do some tests to prove it to yourself.
Look at a homopolar motor, like the ones on youtube using a battery and a magnet with a piece of wire.
The wire is not moving because it's in a uniform field but because it's trying to move to the edge of the entire magnet.

Proof #1: While keeping the battery polarity the same and holding the wire stationary while the device is lightly suspended you will see the magnet spins in the opposite direction of what the wire did. This shows that the magnet is simply the rest of the conductor that forms a loop.
So by attaching a very thin wire (thin magnet wire works well) to some heavier conductors and forming the same loop you will see the loop bend just like the conduction path of the homopolar motor.

Proof #2: Place a large ring magnet on a slippery surface and bring another thin magnet on edge close to one side of the ring magnet. The response is the ring magnet slides but has no tendency to rotate. This is because the only action is when the force works to push or pull the field from the magnet face and not along the uniform field.

Proof #3: When a magnet is spinning on it's axis there is no drag (work done) when a any object is brought near it like a copper plate or another magnet or coil.

The only thing that makes that homopolar motor run is the interaction of the separate conductors acting near the poles of a magnet and not any force generated or related to the uniform field of the magnet.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2018, 05:28:58 AM »
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Offline F6FLT

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2018, 11:29:41 AM »
They analysed forces between permanent magnets but not the work. Only ∫F.dl is significant. As the magnetic flux is conservative (according to conventional Maxwell electromagnetism), work is conserved over a cycle. If they have a real experimental setup that works, it can't be explained by conventional Maxwell electromagnetism and therefore the explanation they give is not correct.
Same remark applies to US patent 2011/0198958: if a permanent magnet motor works, a new theory is needed, the old one being not relevant for explaining this fact, question of pure internal consistency of the conventional theory.
So we have to wait for the experimental evidence.

Offline telecom

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2018, 02:13:27 PM »
I can't find  US patent 2011/0198958

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2018, 02:13:27 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2018, 04:19:57 PM »

Here is the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110198958A1/en

and a picture of the test device. I also attached (below pic) a full size zip file of the picture as it's too large for the page.

Regards
Luc

Offline telecom

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2018, 07:43:11 PM »
Hi Luc, glad to hear  from you!
Have you tried that set up?

Offline onepower

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2018, 08:13:28 PM »
F6flt
Quote
They analysed forces between permanent magnets but not the work. Only ∫F.dl is significant. As the magnetic flux is conservative (according to conventional Maxwell electromagnetism), work is conserved over a cycle.

The work component relates to change, flux can be conserved yet change in many ways. Whenever a permanent magnet moves flux is conserved yet the field changes within a space.

Quote
If they have a real experimental setup that works, it can't be explained by conventional Maxwell electromagnetism and therefore the explanation they give is not correct.

Speculation because your assuming it can't be explained simply because you don't understand it. Which begs the question...is everything you do not understand un-explainable and a violation of the laws of physics and the conservation of energy?. I think it's a little woo woo how the critics say they believe in the conservation of energy yet the moment they see something they do not understand they are always the first to say it must have been violated?. Obviously they do not believe it or not understand it.

Quote
Same remark applies to US patent 2011/0198958: if a permanent magnet motor works, a new theory is needed, the old one being not relevant for explaining this fact, question of pure internal consistency of the conventional theory.

A new theory does not imply a violation of physics or a violation of the conservation of energy. We could easily build a new theory by applying the laws we have in a different way using new insight, we do it all the time in science.

Quote
So we have to wait for the experimental evidence.

Wait?, why?.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: New discovery suggest that permanent magnet motors might be possible
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 08:35:47 PM »
Have you tried that set up?

No, I just noticed the topic a few days ago. I'm busy with other things so don't plan on trying but it looks interesting.
Maybe this would be of interest to user name Floor?  looks right up his alley.

Regards
Luc

 

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