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Author Topic: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment  (Read 9042 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #210 on: November 07, 2018, 07:17:21 PM »
No there is no luck to get overunity. I played with the circuit below rather randomly, using ngspice, maybe you get some idea what such thing does. These two coils are coupled, like on the same core. Netlist was the following.

Quote
* Spice netlister for gnetlist
K1 L1 L2 0.999
L2 n1 0 200u
L1 n0 n1 200u
R1 n2 n0 100
C1 0 n1 50n
V1 n2 0 dc 0 pulse 0 5 0 5n 5n 3u 100u
.END

The image below is  plot n0-0 , after  tran 10n 30u . I printed  (n0-0) * (n2-n0) . The output of that is some tsv, but my python script worked with it pretty well. The output was the following.

Quote
Input 1501.44444818
Output 1474.84738893


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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #210 on: November 07, 2018, 07:17:21 PM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #211 on: November 08, 2018, 03:15:07 PM »
This is the Python script that i used, i redirected the output of the ngspice print command to input.txt. I did it in the ngspice shell,  print (n2-n0) * (n0 - 0) > input.txt . I don't know how this can be done with LTspice, but there sure has to be something similar. LTspice can use netlists made for ngspice, these are both spice, though LTspice may use somewhat different models.

Quote
def nextf(sl, separator):
  endp = sl[0].find(separator)
  if (endp == -1): endp = len(sl[0])
  tok = sl[0][: endp]
  sl[0] = sl[0][endp + 1 : ]
  if (tok == ""): return 0.0
  return float(tok)

line = [""]
ei = eo = 0.0
f = open("input.txt")
while (True):
  line[0] = f.readline()
  if (len(line[0]) == 0): break
  line[0] = line[0].strip()
  if (len(line[0]) == 0): continue
  if (not line[0][0].isdigit()): continue
  nextf(line, "\t")
  nextf(line, "\t")
  p = nextf(line, "\t")
  if (p >= 0): ei += p
  if (p < 0): eo += p
f.close()
print("Input " + str(ei))
print("Output " + str(-eo))

https://trinket.io/python/0264fc62fc

This above couldn't be done with spreadsheet. The output of the print command is tsv, but one cannot read it into a spreadsheet, as it has things written at the beginning and in between the pages, also lines like  --------------------------------------- .

Python eats all things well though. One may think, nextf() is the next float value. Its arguments are line in the list form, and separator, which is "," for csv, and in this case tab. It goes to the next iteration when the first character is not digit, which omits all lines that are not tsv. The first value may be negative, so "-" should be allowed also, which couldn't be allowed in this case.

Then, all positive values were added as input, and all negative values were added as output.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 06:26:17 PM by ayeaye »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2018, 09:29:18 PM »
In fact what i think there may be, maybe that is, i don't say that there is. That the current induced, is not determined by the speed of change of the magnetic field, but is greater, when a part of the current goes somewhere else, moving only a short distance, like to a capacitor.

The simulation thus cannot show it, as it assumes that the current is always proportional to the speed of change of the magnetic field (Faraday's law).

The simulation seems to show that this is how simulation works, as by that like in the beginning, the capacitor decreases the increase of the voltage, thus decreasing the change of the magnetic field. A part of the energy that otherwise goes to increasing the magnetic field, then went to charging the capacitor. And then it seems to show that after the pulse ends, the energy stored in the capacitor goes back to the coil, to delay the current reaching zero, thus increasing the generated energy. But this comes from the energy by which the magnetic field was increased less. Thus simulation might not show the possible overunity even if it were there.

We cannot eliminate the Lenz law, because induction is the Lenz law. We may only increase it and redirect it. Like in this case, it supposed to be redirected to charging the capacitance. Certain work has to be done to increase the magnetic field, which means working against the charges in the atoms of the core, which means resistance to the current, it cannot be otherwise. The only question is whether the effect of induction can create the opposite current more than that.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2018, 09:29:18 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #213 on: November 10, 2018, 02:00:28 PM »
About this picture below, why i showed that. I'm not of any religion, don't misunderstand. It shows fire wheels, and why i showed these.

Because atoms are the fire wheels that move the universe.


Offline F6FLT

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:00 PM »
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:00 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #215 on: November 10, 2018, 05:17:37 PM »
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

No you are completely wrong. That is, there are many ways how one can go wrong, with an ordinary deductive thinking one can go wrong as well, when doing it wrongly. But metaphors are indispensable in analytical thinking. Which they today don't teach in schools, before they did, they may not want that people can think. Analytical thinking is all about modeling, to understand something, one has to build a model of it. And metaphors are good for building such models in ones mind. Comparison is not reason, but comparison is necessary for reason.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #216 on: November 12, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
And then one does experiments, still no overunity, still no overunity, still no overunity. It's because we are trapped by induction, which is so symmetric thing. Its symmetry is just amazing, whatever we do, we cannot break it, that's really phenomenal.


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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #216 on: November 12, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
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Offline onepower

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #217 on: Today at 08:14:54 AM »
F6FLT
Quote
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Reason: is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, establishing and verifying facts, applying logic, and changing or justifying practices, institutions, and beliefs based on new or existing information.

How exactly can we make sense of "things" if not by comparing one thing to other things. In fact all science, a method of testing explanations, is based on standards which is a direct comparison isn't it?.

Quote
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

What I think you are doing relates to another area of science called psychology. This is where people make blanket statements with no justification in an attempt to project and reinforce their own beliefs. They also "gaslight" other people rather than use logic, reason and facts to justify a point.

Like this..."Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions". We have... projection, triangulation, baiting, a lack of justification, false comparisons and generally degrading behavior. It's a check list for classic narcissistic abusive personality disorders in my opinion.

If we are going to speak of science then at the very least we should try to follow the method. We should state our claim or objection to a claim then explain our justification in a reasonable and logical manner.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #218 on: Today at 10:04:17 AM »
I called atoms fire wheels. Atoms resemble wheels, because the electrons orbit the nucleus, they don't exactly orbit, but one may see it like that, as it is what orbiting means in the quantum world.

Fire is somewhat similar to a jet stream, that can affect things remotely.

Why, because like during induction, the atoms in the core (dipoles) induce current when they are more or less side wise towards the wire. Side means side like the side of the wheel. Then the rotation of the electron around the nucleus moves the electrons in the wire forward, just like a wheel. Because such rotation creates a rotating electric field.

During that the atom has to rotate or move more towards or away from the wire, this is why i showed the analogy of the leaf blower. In that increase or decrease of the blow relative to the leaf makes it to move in a certain direction, while constant blow in one direction may only scatter leaves in all directions. This is not a direct analogy, but just to give an idea why increase or decrease of the force matters, while rotational movement alone may not be enough to force things to move in one direction.

And what is the most amazing in that, is that during that process the electrons in the atom do work, forcing the electrons in the wire to move. And in spite of that, they don't lose energy and don't fall to the nucleus, so where does the energy that keeps them orbiting come from? How they usually answer to that question, is that it is not exactly orbiting, it is different. But this is in essence just talking about something else to avoid the need to answer. They are also talking about magnetic and electric field, avoiding the explanation how one comes from the other.

This electrons orbiting nucleus also create something with amazing properties, which they call magnetic field. Which is not exactly field but rather a result of a dynamic process. What this orbiting causes, is a field that is not symmetric, that is not spherical, parallel or in any other way symmetric, in that it has two poles. Why is that special, is that an asymmetric field can theoretically do continues work. Again where the energy there comes from. This looks like the same question as where the energy comes from that keeps the electrons orbiting.

Thus i stated the reason for comparison and explained it in a logical manner.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #218 on: Today at 10:04:17 AM »
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