GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Plug Heater

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 503213
  • *Total Topics: 15042
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 7
  • *Guests: 26
  • *Total: 33

Author Topic: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment  (Read 10087 times)

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #210 on: November 07, 2018, 07:17:21 PM »
No there is no luck to get overunity. I played with the circuit below rather randomly, using ngspice, maybe you get some idea what such thing does. These two coils are coupled, like on the same core. Netlist was the following.

Quote
* Spice netlister for gnetlist
K1 L1 L2 0.999
L2 n1 0 200u
L1 n0 n1 200u
R1 n2 n0 100
C1 0 n1 50n
V1 n2 0 dc 0 pulse 0 5 0 5n 5n 3u 100u
.END

The image below is  plot n0-0 , after  tran 10n 30u . I printed  (n0-0) * (n2-n0) . The output of that is some tsv, but my python script worked with it pretty well. The output was the following.

Quote
Input 1501.44444818
Output 1474.84738893


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #210 on: November 07, 2018, 07:17:21 PM »

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #211 on: November 08, 2018, 03:15:07 PM »
This is the Python script that i used, i redirected the output of the ngspice print command to input.txt. I did it in the ngspice shell,  print (n2-n0) * (n0 - 0) > input.txt . I don't know how this can be done with LTspice, but there sure has to be something similar. LTspice can use netlists made for ngspice, these are both spice, though LTspice may use somewhat different models.

Quote
def nextf(sl, separator):
  endp = sl[0].find(separator)
  if (endp == -1): endp = len(sl[0])
  tok = sl[0][: endp]
  sl[0] = sl[0][endp + 1 : ]
  if (tok == ""): return 0.0
  return float(tok)

line = [""]
ei = eo = 0.0
f = open("input.txt")
while (True):
  line[0] = f.readline()
  if (len(line[0]) == 0): break
  line[0] = line[0].strip()
  if (len(line[0]) == 0): continue
  if (not line[0][0].isdigit()): continue
  nextf(line, "\t")
  nextf(line, "\t")
  p = nextf(line, "\t")
  if (p >= 0): ei += p
  if (p < 0): eo += p
f.close()
print("Input " + str(ei))
print("Output " + str(-eo))

https://trinket.io/python/0264fc62fc

This above couldn't be done with spreadsheet. The output of the print command is tsv, but one cannot read it into a spreadsheet, as it has things written at the beginning and in between the pages, also lines like  --------------------------------------- .

Python eats all things well though. One may think, nextf() is the next float value. Its arguments are line in the list form, and separator, which is "," for csv, and in this case tab. It goes to the next iteration when the first character is not digit, which omits all lines that are not tsv. The first value may be negative, so "-" should be allowed also, which couldn't be allowed in this case.

Then, all positive values were added as input, and all negative values were added as output.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 06:26:17 PM by ayeaye »

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2018, 09:29:18 PM »
In fact what i think there may be, maybe that is, i don't say that there is. That the current induced, is not determined by the speed of change of the magnetic field, but is greater, when a part of the current goes somewhere else, moving only a short distance, like to a capacitor.

The simulation thus cannot show it, as it assumes that the current is always proportional to the speed of change of the magnetic field (Faraday's law).

The simulation seems to show that this is how simulation works, as by that like in the beginning, the capacitor decreases the increase of the voltage, thus decreasing the change of the magnetic field. A part of the energy that otherwise goes to increasing the magnetic field, then went to charging the capacitor. And then it seems to show that after the pulse ends, the energy stored in the capacitor goes back to the coil, to delay the current reaching zero, thus increasing the generated energy. But this comes from the energy by which the magnetic field was increased less. Thus simulation might not show the possible overunity even if it were there.

We cannot eliminate the Lenz law, because induction is the Lenz law. We may only increase it and redirect it. Like in this case, it supposed to be redirected to charging the capacitance. Certain work has to be done to increase the magnetic field, which means working against the charges in the atoms of the core, which means resistance to the current, it cannot be otherwise. The only question is whether the effect of induction can create the opposite current more than that.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2018, 09:29:18 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #213 on: November 10, 2018, 02:00:28 PM »
About this picture below, why i showed that. I'm not of any religion, don't misunderstand. It shows fire wheels, and why i showed these.

Because atoms are the fire wheels that move the universe.


Offline F6FLT

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:00 PM »
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:00 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #215 on: November 10, 2018, 05:17:37 PM »
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

No you are completely wrong. That is, there are many ways how one can go wrong, with an ordinary deductive thinking one can go wrong as well, when doing it wrongly. But metaphors are indispensable in analytical thinking. Which they today don't teach in schools, before they did, they may not want that people can think. Analytical thinking is all about modeling, to understand something, one has to build a model of it. And metaphors are good for building such models in ones mind. Comparison is not reason, but comparison is necessary for reason.


Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #216 on: November 12, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
And then one does experiments, still no overunity, still no overunity, still no overunity. It's because we are trapped by induction, which is so symmetric thing. Its symmetry is just amazing, whatever we do, we cannot break it, that's really phenomenal.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #216 on: November 12, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline onepower

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #217 on: November 15, 2018, 08:14:54 AM »
F6FLT
Quote
There is a saying that "comparison is not reason".
Reason: is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, establishing and verifying facts, applying logic, and changing or justifying practices, institutions, and beliefs based on new or existing information.

How exactly can we make sense of "things" if not by comparing one thing to other things. In fact all science, a method of testing explanations, is based on standards which is a direct comparison isn't it?.

Quote
Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions.

What I think you are doing relates to another area of science called psychology. This is where people make blanket statements with no justification in an attempt to project and reinforce their own beliefs. They also "gaslight" other people rather than use logic, reason and facts to justify a point.

Like this..."Metaphors and comparisons are processes of religious writing designed to convince without thinking. These are the best traps for not understanding science questions". We have... projection, triangulation, baiting, a lack of justification, false comparisons and generally degrading behavior. It's a check list for classic narcissistic abusive personality disorders in my opinion.

If we are going to speak of science then at the very least we should try to follow the method. We should state our claim or objection to a claim then explain our justification in a reasonable and logical manner.

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #218 on: November 15, 2018, 10:04:17 AM »
I called atoms fire wheels. Atoms resemble wheels, because the electrons orbit the nucleus, they don't exactly orbit, but one may see it like that, as it is what orbiting means in the quantum world.

Fire is somewhat similar to a jet stream, that can affect things remotely.

Why, because like during induction, the atoms in the core (dipoles) induce current when they are more or less side wise towards the wire. Side means side like the side of the wheel. Then the rotation of the electron around the nucleus moves the electrons in the wire forward, just like a wheel. Because such rotation creates a rotating electric field.

During that the atom has to rotate or move more towards or away from the wire, this is why i showed the analogy of the leaf blower. In that increase or decrease of the blow relative to the leaf makes it to move in a certain direction, while constant blow in one direction may only scatter leaves in all directions. This is not a direct analogy, but just to give an idea why increase or decrease of the force matters, while rotational movement alone may not be enough to force things to move in one direction.

And what is the most amazing in that, is that during that process the electrons in the atom do work, forcing the electrons in the wire to move. And in spite of that, they don't lose energy and don't fall to the nucleus, so where does the energy that keeps them orbiting come from? How they usually answer to that question, is that it is not exactly orbiting, it is different. But this is in essence just talking about something else to avoid the need to answer. They are also talking about magnetic and electric field, avoiding the explanation how one comes from the other.

This electrons orbiting nucleus also create something with amazing properties, which they call magnetic field. Which is not exactly field but rather a result of a dynamic process. What this orbiting causes, is a field that is not symmetric, that is not spherical, parallel or in any other way symmetric, in that it has two poles. Why is that special, is that an asymmetric field can theoretically do continues work. Again where the energy there comes from. This looks like the same question as where the energy comes from that keeps the electrons orbiting.

Thus i stated the reason for comparison and explained it in a logical manner.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #218 on: November 15, 2018, 10:04:17 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline onepower

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #219 on: November 16, 2018, 04:57:03 PM »
Ayeaye
Quote
I called atoms fire wheels. Atoms resemble wheels, because the electrons orbit the nucleus, they don't exactly orbit, but one may see it like that, as it is what orbiting means in the quantum world.

Fire is somewhat similar to a jet stream, that can affect things remotely.

Why, because like during induction, the atoms in the core (dipoles) induce current when they are more or less side wise towards the wire. Side means side like the side of the wheel. Then the rotation of the electron around the nucleus moves the electrons in the wire forward, just like a wheel. Because such rotation creates a rotating electric field.

I thought it was a good analogy and fire being a form of excitation/ionization could represent the fields of orbiting electrons. It is interesting stuff, the electron spin produces a magnetic dipole however the electron orbit does as well not unlike a current loop. I would say the electron orbit does qualify as a current loop not unlike a 1 turn coil in itself because a current is simply described as a moving particle/field.

Quote
And what is the most amazing in that, is that during that process the electrons in the atom do work, forcing the electrons in the wire to move. And in spite of that, they don't lose energy and don't fall to the nucleus, so where does the energy that keeps them orbiting come from? How they usually answer to that question, is that it is not exactly orbiting, it is different. But this is in essence just talking about something else to avoid the need to answer. They are also talking about magnetic and electric field, avoiding the explanation how one comes from the other.

It is strange that so many say perpetual motion is impossible yet in every science textbook we are told the electrons must orbit the nucleus perpetually... . In fact nobody can give even one example of something not in perpetual motion thus it is the norm and not an exception to any rule. Perpetual motion is universal and motion is energy thus everything everywhere represents energy. Our goal here is to figure out a way to extract some of this energy.

Good post and we need more of this kind of intelligent debate in my opinion. To follow the method of science in our conversations. As if to say here is my explanation or perspective of how I see things and here is my justification for it. All too often we see people tossing out a word salad with no justification which is meaningless in my opinion.

 

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #220 on: December 15, 2018, 10:07:50 AM »
Good post and we need more of this kind of intelligent debate in my opinion. To follow the method of science in our conversations. As if to say here is my explanation or perspective of how I see things and here is my justification for it.

Thank you Onepower!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #220 on: December 15, 2018, 10:07:50 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #221 on: December 15, 2018, 10:53:37 AM »
I could go on like this for a while yet, just as you go on and on about your programming. But what's the point? If you want to see some high COP measurements from a bifilar coil setup, look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzbc-N-e9c

Now i come back to this, no i didn't forget. I went on and on with programming yes, but finally i think i wrote a good script. Useful for some, as not all have so good oscilloscope as you have, that is capable of doing these calculations. But more importantly it appeared that it was important to explain things, how many times i had to say that instantaneous power is P = V * I. And that the actual input or output power we can calculate by adding all positive or negative instantaneous powers during a cycle, multiplying it by a time period, and then multiplying that by the frequency. Like you asked where the input and output of the circuit is, we don't need the input and output in the circuit to calculate input and output power, the average positive instantaneous power is the input, and the average negative instantaneous power is the output. And that this then is the same as measuring the amplitudes of the voltage, current and phase angle between them, and calculating from these, in case if both signals are sines. And that input and output powers can be measured separately on the coil, or some other part of the circuit. Ok, that's about that.

Excellently done experiment, TinselKoala! The correct way to calculate average power is to calculate the average of the instantaneous powers, considering both positive and negative values. So that when the positive and negative parts of the trace are equal, then the result is zero. I assume that your oscilloscope does it in that way, that you got a similar result by calculating from amplitudes and a phase angle between them, confirms that. The average power calculated by oscilloscope is correct in that case though, as the signals are not exactly sines.

Assuming that all was correctly done, which looks like that it was, this is a significant result, with overunity 2.9 times. Good work TinselKoala and Partzman! I also agree with Partzman that the other path through the air is insignificant, and can be disregarded. I also think that when the oscilloscope and its probes were well calibrated, then its measurements can be relied on.

One terminal of the input winding of the bifilar coil is not connected, thus with the second winding it forms like a capacitor. In this circuit too i think part of the induction goes to charge the capacitance, and this is where i think the overunity comes from as i said. This may mean generating more current than provided by the Faraday's law, that goes to charge the capacitance, and is not entirely affected by the Lenz effect, as not all that current goes through all the coil. I think that this experiment confirms that. To see that this is what happens, the voltages on the coils and the currents through them may have to be measured, to see whether the induced current, including that necessary for charging the capacitance, is indeed greater than the current provided by the Faraday's law.

Below is the Partzman's circuit that TinselKoala used in his experiment, that i took from the TinselKoala's video, i assume that i can provide a screenshot of it here, TinselKoala please say if you have any objections.

Now just continue from that!


Offline F6FLT

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #222 on: December 15, 2018, 12:16:24 PM »
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNzbc-N-e9c

It was the video that triggered my coming here, because I had noticed that Tinselkoala is a reliable experimenter.
There is an intriguing comment from him on the investigation of the COP, he seems to suspect a measurement issue:
"I just haven't yet posted the video of that further investigation yet. Hint: How would you test to see if the PBT itself is actually causing the OU readings?"

Offline ayeaye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #223 on: December 15, 2018, 12:55:19 PM »
What is PBT, Polybutylene terephthalate? Very unlikely, or i don't know what he meant.


Online ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6317
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #224 on: December 15, 2018, 01:33:42 PM »
PBT//Partzmans Bifilar transformer
F6FLT ...I understand the frustration from The author of the Video , he tries to explain to persons herethat even measurements must be scrutinized to the finest degree [his hidden message in this vid] ,soooo many times there is a surprise at the end of the scrutiny
and here in this forum persons who dare to measure get threats and attacks ,..that is why you don't see them here too much ,and you do see persons flaunting failures as fact ?
I am not versed in the error which manifest to produce this particular measurement error.and I must also add Partzman still works with Smudge and others to find all these errors//...after all it is the only way to advance and not be fooled [the Feynman tag at the bottom of the Tinsels posts.//
Brutal honesty is the only way forward ,if the scientific method is abandoned ....there is no way to Progress ,this just becomes a place for secret book writers ,fraudsters and scammers

I will ask Partzman to explain this error [to be sure I have this correct ]but he may not answer here as certain persons are attacking the scientific method here at this time.[not referencing any members here in this thread]

..if he does not respond personally ,I will be sure to post the reply.
respectfully..Chet//
Ps to add // I see these errors as sharpening the spear [and so does the Partzman]the hunt will never stop

 

OneLink