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Author Topic: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment  (Read 9318 times)

Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« on: September 09, 2018, 03:42:32 PM »
I do not claim anything because it may be not right, this all is only a conjecture. Bifilar coils create charge, and there may be not much current, creating a charge itself has no Lenz effect back. What this additional charge supposed to do, is to make the back-emf wider. The actual moving of electrons during induction is caused by the electrons orbiting the nuclea of the atoms. These orbiting electrons are also the reason that makes magnetic field asymmetric, that is, it has two poles, and every asymmetric field can do work. These electrons don't fall to the nucleus when doing work, which may be a source of overunity.

I don't see any inaccuracies that can make the result principally different, but with things like that nothing is confirmed before someone replicates it, also there is nothing that can be proven without replication, replication is the only way to find out what really happened and what the results were. So please replicate this experiment.

In the calculations below, the positive part of the graph is considered to be the input, and the negative part when there was no power supplied from the outside, is considered to be the output. The power used by the coil at every moment of time is the voltage on it multiplied by the current through it. The output power is the power on the resistor in the LR circuit during the back-emf. Only the power of the coil was calculated, there certainly was no overunity in the whole circuit, the consumption of power of the circuit was hugely greater than the power output measured, and no excess energy was generated whatsoever.

I'm really sorry that on the figure 3 below there is Arduino, not the signal generator. The experiment below was done using the Ne555 generator, but later i tried to have shorter pulses, so i changed things and now i have no device left, all is disassembled, but except the 555 generator, the circuit on that figure is exactly how it was during the experiment.

I have a 6 meter audio cable, i used to think that it is a headphones cable, but i don't remember where i got it or what it is. It is like a headphones cable, it consists of two coaxial cables in parallel, but it is thicker than a normal headphones cable, and it is covered with rubber. The pancake coil on the figure 2 used in the experiment below, was made of that cable. Its diameter is 160 mm and it has 17 turns. A bifilar coil was made of both coaxial cables, so it is like two bifilar pancake coils one on another, and these two pancake coils are connected in series. The coil had no core.

The real resistances of the resistors were R2 983 ohms and R3 99.4 ohms. As you can see on the figure 1 below, a floating scope was used, i could do that because i measured that there was no connection between the power supply ground and the oscilloscope ground. Be very careful when using a floating scope, and if there is any possibility that the circuit ground may be connected to the oscilloscope, connect the oscilloscope in another way.

The oscilloscope time scale was 5 us. The figure 4 below is the original photo of the oscilloscope screen, and the figure 5 is that photo enhanced with gimp. Channel 2 is up and channel 1 is below, channel 2 is inverted. The scale of channel 1 was 50 mV and the scale of channel 2 was 500 mV.  The figure 6 below is that screen drawn in gschem, the following is the content of the sch file.

Quote
v 20130925 2
L 60500 42400 60800 41900 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60800 41900 61200 41700 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61200 40500 61500 41000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61500 41000 62000 41300 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 62000 41300 62400 41400 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 62400 41400 63800 41500 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60500 39900 61200 40000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61200 40000 61200 39000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60300 41500 64000 41500 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60300 39000 64000 39000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1

The squares of the grid in gschem are 100 units wide and 100 units high. The 5 us time scale means that the time period of the unit is 10 ns. The scale of channel 1 was 50 mV, considering the 10x attenuation of the oscilloscope probes, the channel 2 unit was 1 mV. The channel 2 scale was 500 mV, thus the channel 2 unit was 10 mV. The frequency was 30.303 kHz. The following python script was used to calculate using the gschem file.

Quote
import sys

#Time for a gschem unit in ns
XU = 10.0
#Voltage for a gschem unit for ch 1 in mV
YU1 = 1.0
#Voltage for a gschem unit for ch 2 in mV
YU2 = 10.0
#Resistor 1 resistance in ohms
R1 = 983.0
#Resistor 2 resistance in ohms
R2 = 99.4
#Frequency in Hz
F = 30303.0

if (len(sys.argv) < 2):
    print ("\nUsage: python pancake3.py sch_file\n")
    sys.exit()
f = open(sys.argv[1], "r")
lines = []
for s in f:
    l = []
    i1 = -1
    if (s[0] != "L"): continue
    for j in range(0, 5):
       if (i1 == len(s)): break
       i0 = i1 + 1
       i1 = i0 + s[i0:].find(" ")
       if (s[i0:].find(" ") == -1): i1 = len(s)
       if (j and s[i0:i1].isdigit()): l.append(int(s[i0:i1]))
    lines.append([l[0], l[1], l[2], l[3]])
f.close()

y0 = lines[len(lines) - 2][1]
x0 = lines[0][0]
i1 = i2 = 0
lines.pop();
lines.pop();
for i in range(0, len(lines)):
    if (lines[1] <= y0):
        i1 = i
        break
for i in range(0, len(lines)):
    if (lines[0] == x0):
        i2 = i
ilist = lines[0 : i1]
olist = lines[i1 : i2]
ch2list = lines[i2 : ]
x0 = ilist[0][0]
for i in range(0, len(ilist)):
    ilist[0] -= x0
    ilist[2] -= x0
    ilist[1] -= y0
    ilist[3] -= y0
x0 = olist[0][0]
for i in range(0, len(olist)):
    olist[0] -= x0
    olist[2] -= x0
    olist[1] = y0 - olist[1]
    olist[3] = y0 - olist[3]
x0 = ch2list[0][0]
y0 = ch2list[len(ch2list) - 1][3]
for i in range(0, len(ch2list)):
    ch2list[0] -= x0
    ch2list[2] -= x0
    ch2list[1] -= y0
    ch2list[3] -= y0
ilast = ilist[len(ilist) - 1][2]
olast = olist[len(olist) - 1][2]

i1 = i2 = 0
e = 0.0
for t in range(0, ilast, 10):
    if (t >= ilist[i1][2]): i1 += 1;
    if (t >= ch2list[i2][2]): i2 += 1;
    lx1 = float(ilist[i1][2] - ilist[i1][0])
    ly1 = float(ilist[i1][3] - ilist[i1][1])
    dx1 = float(t - ilist[i1][0])
    r1 = abs(dx1 / lx1)
    dy1 = ly1 * r1
    lx2 = float(ch2list[i2][2] - ch2list[i2][0])
    ly2 = float(ch2list[i2][3] - ch2list[i2][1])
    dx2 = float(t - ch2list[i2][0])
    r2 = abs(dx2 / lx2)
    dy2 = ly2 * r2
    ilr = (ch2list[i2][1] + dy2) * YU2 / R1
    vlr = (ilist[i1][1] + dy1) * YU1
    plr = ilr * vlr / 1000
    pr = vlr * vlr / R2 / 1000
    pl = plr - pr
    e += pl
#Energy in uJ
e *= XU / 10 / 1000000
print("Input power was %.3f uW" % (F * e))

i1 = 0
e = 0.0
for t in range(0, olast, 10):
    if (t >= olist[i1][2]): i1 += 1;
    lx1 = float(olist[i1][2] - olist[i1][0])
    ly1 = float(olist[i1][3] - olist[i1][1])
    dx1 = float(t - olist[i1][0])
    r1 = abs(dx1 / lx1)
    dy1 = ly1 * r1
    vlr = (olist[i1][1] + dy1) * YU1
    pr = vlr * vlr / R2 / 1000
    e += pr
#Energy in uJ
e *= XU / 10 / 1000000
print("Output power was %.3f uW" % (F * e))

The output of that python script using the gschem file above, was the following.

Quote
Input power was 3.888 uW
Output power was 7.896 uW

The text herein was also uploaded to
https://archive.org/details/bpcoe


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 09:11:18 AM »
Perhaps a somewhat clearer Python code below, also the resistor names are now right, gives the same result.

I also noticed that the index "square bracket, i, square bracket"  gets deleted after a name of the list after posting the code, i fixed that by writing [ i ] instead, so the code below now works correctly, not sure about the code in the previous post.

Quote
import sys

#Time for gschem unit in ns
XU = 10.0
#Voltage for gschem unit for ch 1 in mV
YU1 = 1.0
#Voltage for gschem unit for ch 2 in mV
YU2 = 10.0
#Resistor 2 resistance in ohms
R2 = 983.0
#Resistor 3 resistance in ohms
R3 = 99.4
#Frequency in Hz
F = 30303.0

def getlist(list, x0, y0, invert):
    for i in range(0, len(list)):
        list[ i ][0] -= x0
        list[ i ][2] -= x0
        if (invert):
            list[ i ][1] = y0 - list[ i ][1]
            list[ i ][3] = y0 - list[ i ][3]
        else:
            list[ i ][1] -= y0
            list[ i ][3] -= y0
    return list

def gety(list, i, t):
    lx = float(list[ i ][2] - list[ i ][0])
    ly = float(list[ i ][3] - list[ i ][1])
    dx = float(t - list[ i ][0])
    dy = ly * abs(dx / lx)
    return list[ i ][1] + dy

def output(str, e):
    #Energy in uJ
    e *= XU / 10 / 1000000
    print("%s power was %.3f uW" % (str, F * e))

if (len(sys.argv) < 2):
    print ("\nUsage: python pancake4.py sch_file\n")
    sys.exit()
f = open(sys.argv[1], "r")
lines = []
for s in f:
    l = []
    i1 = -1
    if (s[0] != "L"): continue
    for j in range(0, 5):
       if (i1 == len(s)): break
       i0 = i1 + 1
       i1 = i0 + s[i0:].find(" ")
       if (s[i0:].find(" ") == -1): i1 = len(s)
       if (j and s[i0:i1].isdigit()): l.append(int(s[i0:i1]))
    lines.append([l[0], l[1], l[2], l[3]])
f.close()

x0 = lines[0][0]
y0 = lines[-2][1]
lines.pop()
lines.pop()
i1 = map(lambda l: l[1] <= y0, lines).index(True)
i2 = map(lambda l: l[0] == x0, lines[1 : ]).index(True) + 1
ilist = getlist(lines[: i1], x0, y0, False)
olist = getlist(lines[i1 : i2], lines[i1][0], y0, True)
ch2list = getlist(lines[i2 : ], lines[i2][0], lines[-1][3], False)

e = 0.0
i1 = i2 = 0
for t in range(0, ilist[-1][2], 10):
    if (t >= ilist[i1][2]): i1 += 1;
    if (t >= ch2list[i2][2]): i2 += 1;
    ilr = gety(ch2list, i2, t) * YU2 / R2
    vlr = gety(ilist, i1, t) * YU1
    plr = ilr * vlr / 1000
    pr = vlr * vlr / R3 / 1000
    pl = plr - pr
    e += pl
output("Input", e)

e = 0.0
i1 = 0
for t in range(0, olist[-1][2], 10):
    if (t >= olist[i1][2]): i1 += 1;
    vlr = gety(olist, i1, t) * YU1
    pr = vlr * vlr / R3 / 1000
    e += pr
output("Output", e)

« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 05:51:43 PM by ayeaye »


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 01:07:41 PM »
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Offline endlessoceans

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 04:08:27 PM »
Hey Dani1
you're doing Good job  :)


Hello Tito

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 04:08:27 PM »
Sponsored links:





Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2018, 06:30:57 PM »
do you want to replicate following?
https://www.facebook.com/ricard.montseny/videos/vb.100000949034144/2150504444991169/?type=2&theater
https://www.facebook.com/ricard.montseny/videos/vb.100000949034144/2170624892979124/?type=2&theater

No i cannot, i have no induction cooker. Also using light bulbs is an improper way to measure power, it is very difficult to measure their brightness, and in these videos they don't even try to do that. If you did use heating elements instead or such, you could at least measure their temperature, and from that you could calculate power, though whether they are in the air or in the water, what is the temperature of the air or water, whether the wind blows or water moves, all should then be measured and included in the calculation. No matter how convincing something may look, without a proper measurements the experiments are worthless for research. I mean what you do may be great, all i'm saying is that you lack the necessary rigor.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2018, 06:30:57 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ramset

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2018, 07:49:16 PM »
Well

there is a beautiful simple test procedure for this...light bulbs or whatever ??



no problem
was taught to us years back by a very Schmart man who could do almost everything
with absolutely nothing....
Fixed loss to ambient test protocol
I will look for the simple write up and post it here.


respectfully
Chet K

Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 02:16:07 AM »
I now enhanced the oscilloscope screen image more with edge detect, on figure 1 below, and changed the gschem graph to more exactly correspond to the oscilloscope screen. The sch file is now the following.

Quote
v 20130925 2
L 60500 42500 60900 41900 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60900 41900 61300 41700 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61300 40500 61600 41000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61600 41000 62000 41300 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 62000 41300 62400 41400 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 62400 41400 63800 41500 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60500 40000 61300 40100 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 61300 40100 61300 39000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60300 41500 64000 41500 3 0 0 0 -1 -1
L 60300 39000 64000 39000 3 0 0 0 -1 -1

The power supply as measured with a multimeter, was 11.84 V.

The output of the Python script above with the sch file above is now the following.

Quote
Input power was 5.277 uW
Output power was 7.500 uW

But output is still greater than the input.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 12:41:23 PM by ayeaye »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 02:16:07 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2018, 03:32:13 PM »
What is in this forum, all are gone from here? Only a few people i see, here used to be always many four years ago, when i last was here.

Also, consider that in my bifilar pancake coil coaxial cables were used, like these used in the headphones wire, instead of pairs of wires, coaxial cable provides much more capacitance between the windings than a pair of wires, and this what i think is the most essential for bifilar coil.

I don't know what is the cable that i used for my coil, i cannot find it anywhere. Maybe something like that below, headphone extension cable, where the two coaxial cables are side by side, not twisted, this also makes the cable flat, more like tape, and easy to make a pancake coil. But it was thicker, and 20 feet (6 m) long.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quality-3-5mm-Extension-Headphone-Plug-Jack-Audio-Cable-Male-To-Female/262803920459?epid=2133356404&hash=item3d3055964b:g:iAkAAOSwYeRZ5cNo


Offline ramset

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 08:00:31 PM »
Sir
Here everybody keeps busy , its the thing to do ....[saving the planet requires diligence
we do have some friends who have done many experiments with Pancake coils and multi windings [BiFi etc]
I will ask a few to have a look here.
thanks for sharing your work....
respectfully...
Chet K...
Ps

also
there  are some builders who frequent here who are working on some Pancake coil ideas shared by Nelson Rocha over at a moderated bench at Russ's forum
here http://open-source-energy.org/?PHPSESSID=m1nc8rakikrllvkcj64b82pfv4;topic=3300.msg50663#new





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 08:00:31 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2018, 08:22:55 PM »
we do have some friends who have done many experiments with Pancake coils and multi windings [BiFi etc]
I will ask a few to have a look here.
thanks for sharing your work....

Thanks.


Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 06:45:07 PM »
You can also run the python script above in ideone or in some other online compiler, just paste the content of the sch file as stdin. The following is that script in ideone, it runs and outputs the results.

https://ideone.com/pPOOjF

To get gschem one should install geda. There is also geda for windows, but also other electronics circuit simulators based on spice should include a similar vector graphics editor.


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 08:52:47 PM »
The pancake coil he shows has about 20 winds, if that helps any

Offline ayeaye

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  • Posts: 495
Re: Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2018, 11:19:43 AM »
The pancake coil he shows has about 20 winds, if that helps any

Yes, but the one on your picture was made of a speaker wire likely. Mine, maybe an equivalent would be if one would make it out of a coaxial cable, especially from one with a small diameter. Coaxial cable has much more capacitance than a speaker wire, and this is because the outer conductor there is all around the inner conductor, which means that there is much larger area between the two conductors, than in a pair of wires. Capacitance is also greater when the conductors are closer to each other, like in the headphones cable that i used. Otherwise i don't know by now, maybe a guitar cable or microphone cable, one can get them very long.

At that i don't exclude that it may work with the coil on your picture, i don't exclude that it may work with any bifilar coil. One thing though, don't use any core, i tried core, and it made it more like an ordinary coil, with the back-emf much narrower, and seemingly much less difference between the input and output energy.

I used gschem as a vector graphics editor because it is a very simple editor that has a very simple output format. There are also online vector graphics editors like method draw below, that can be used for the same purpose, But it has an svg output format, that is some kind of xml, and it's somewhat more difficult to pick the coordinates of the lines from there with python script, though it's possible.

https://editor.method.ac

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 03:29:30 PM by ayeaye »

 

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