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Author Topic: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?  (Read 131393 times)

Offline kolbacict

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #645 on: May 07, 2021, 02:48:43 PM »
it was just an old device with a steel ball rolling along a chute. It was a pity to break off the chute. I took pains, I did it before. I thought it would not hurt. And this was done in haste.
If necessary, we will redo it. Well, it oscillate, of course. 10-20 damped oscillations.
What should be?  :)

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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #646 on: May 07, 2021, 03:24:38 PM »
again, two arms in counterrotation

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #647 on: May 07, 2021, 06:20:28 PM »
Here's another thing: pulling a weight to the side while it travels upwards through a curve is the same principle behind Tesla's Flying Stove. Various builder's of that device have found that the weights' travel alone does not produce lift.

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #647 on: May 07, 2021, 06:20:28 PM »
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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #648 on: May 07, 2021, 07:10:04 PM »
it's not the same, tesla stove reminds me a lot of tsirigakis design which also
does not work. i think that this double rotation that results in irregular path
confuses the inertial frames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN4Vj3RCtjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcT863rxo-o

in this spring design pull to the side is not because there needs to be pull to the side
but that is simply a way of imparting torque.

all inertial devices rely on centrifugal pull, that is all they necessarily have in common
there is infinity of ways this pull can be made asymmetrical, many of which
reduce the radius in a way that completely or almost completely cancels
out the desired forward pull. some don't and those work powerfully.

this however, is the most simplistic of all, just an almost bare basic principal

only thing that differs it from completely bare principle is the springs.

for that there would have to be some kind of prime mover at the axis
to accelerate/decelerate the two arms in counterrotation.

maybe i'm wrong about this spring scheme, but i doubt i am
i'm quite sure once countertorque is canceled, powerful linear
acceleration will result. we'll see if someone makes it

there have to be two arms in counterrotation for valid experiment


Offline kolbacict

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #649 on: May 07, 2021, 08:07:07 PM »
https://youtu.be/c3I2zeoUbzg

Isn't that what we're talking about?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #649 on: May 07, 2021, 08:07:07 PM »
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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #650 on: May 07, 2021, 08:16:12 PM »
interesting but not exactly, i doubt if there is any centrifugal
force on the pivot due to the free end bending

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #651 on: May 07, 2021, 08:43:05 PM »
That Tesla's Stove video is defective because he's spinning the mechanism, rather than pulling it around in an "orbit", which is what Tesla said to do. If it spins, the active weights are the same distance from the center and produce canceling forces. Also, the orbit has to be in step with the rotation, not at a 2 to 1 ratio.

Tesla: "Both the center of mass and the center of gravity orbit around the same point". The center of mass never changes position if all you do is spin the mechanism.

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #651 on: May 07, 2021, 08:43:05 PM »
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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #652 on: May 07, 2021, 08:48:23 PM »
where did tesla say orbit, not rotation? i don't think he said that.
and no, weights are not same distance from center of rotation
as clearly shown in the video and screenshot below.

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #653 on: May 07, 2021, 09:06:32 PM »
Tesla said "orbit" in the patent, or his notebook drawing.


The active weights are the ones moving from the horizontal to the vertical (the red one and the opposite one) while they're being pulled to the side. If the weights' anchor points are at the same distance from the center, one shaft will move up while the opposite shaft moves down. If one weight's anchor point is closer to the center, the orbital movement will pull that weight to the side more slowly than the compound movement of the opposing weight. Then, the shaft which is closer to center (of the orbit) will move down a smaller amount than the other one moves up. This will result in a net overall lift.


The weights still have to be pulled to the side as they curve upwards.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #653 on: May 07, 2021, 09:06:32 PM »
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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #654 on: May 07, 2021, 09:28:23 PM »
you are misinterpreting the patent. if he said orbit he meant arms
"orbiting" the center of rotation as clearly implied in the drawing.

again, masses are not same distance from the center of rotation
as evident in the screenshot. while one arm is exactly in the center
and therefore has 0 centrifugal force opposite one is max out and
has max force.

just like tsirigakis it appears it should work
direction of centrifugal force in both designs is
really all to one side, but it doesn't work

why, it's not clear. only thing that comes to mind
that this kind of irregular path somehow confuses
the inertial frames

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #655 on: May 07, 2021, 09:52:49 PM »
The mass action points have to have different distances from the center of the orbit. Otherwise, it won't work, as various people have shown.

I corrected my misstatement. The principle I'm discussing is still valid. You have to pull the mass to the side while it curves upwards. Otherwise, it won't work. Unless YOU say it will?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #655 on: May 07, 2021, 09:52:49 PM »
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Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #656 on: May 07, 2021, 10:04:57 PM »
"mass action points have to have different distances from the center of the orbit"

masses DO have different distances from the center of the orbit, very much so,
as clearly seen in the screenshot.

this approach is unnecessarily complicated and debunked, not worth mentioning anymore.

"You have to pull the mass to the side while it curves upwards."

just no

there are better and simpler approaches, water based one i disclosed just one example
there are even better ones, i am not telling exactly everything, do your research, people

let's for now focus on the basic principle

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #657 on: May 07, 2021, 10:06:32 PM »
Speaking of saying something, it doesn't matter what I say, you're going to argue. And I'M the one who has built over a hundred machines, having found out what works and what doesn't, in the real world.


Good luck getting someone to build your idea. I'm moving on. This is one field which doesn't deserve my mentorship.

Offline nix85

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #658 on: May 07, 2021, 10:29:25 PM »
i'm not arguing with you, i'm just pointing out when you say something not true

over 100 machines you say and yet you don't really have anything to show
but short video in which your device jerked itself bit up and down.

i'm not downplaying your efforts, all honest effort is valuable and commendable!

couple of americans have been flying in a disc with water based inertial drive
in the 1990s (according to report from keelynet.com), same venturi principle
based drive i independently rediscovered and shared here.

and after that i found even better approach that works, it's out there, if
you dig for it. no reaction whatsoever, capable of high rpm..but i'm not disclosing
everything yet.

with no intent to boast, i understand this on bit deeper level.
that much about "mentorship".

also, i recognize the need for people to understand the simple basic principle.
how many people dabble in inertial propulsion and still don't get it, almost
none get it.

hopefully someone builds it, it will either make great news here or be another
failure, if it fails, which i doubt it will, i'll easily find another way to impart
momentum to those counterrotating arms.

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?
« Reply #659 on: May 07, 2021, 10:41:49 PM »
And the guy with the biggest mouth always has the followers, even with no practical experience in the field.


The machines I have sitting around which work have considerable financial value, so I'm not going to disclose them.


And yes, I am a student of the Art. Are you?

PS: I corrected my statement to say the shaft collars can't have the same distance from the center. Did you miss that part?

 

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