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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: iacob alex on December 04, 2006, 06:48:09 AM

Title: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on December 04, 2006, 06:48:09 AM
...was intended to be an allegorical approach,so  to can understand in an extensive manner, the real physical world phenomena around us for everybody.In nature,you will not find human tools,as we build them.A lever can be a wooden stick and a stone /fulcrum,a pendulum any free hanging body,a.s.o.A system,as a design,conception can be simpler than the sum of its parts ,that we's not the first time when my topics are amassed in some way.No problem,if so,I will try to be not explicit.It can be an advantage for me:I am convinced that man must go back to nature ,again and again,for information.By the way,two stick games can be diversified...All the Bests!/Alex
Title: A non-simulation game...
Post by: iacob alex on December 08, 2006, 03:00:25 AM
...that is this two sticks game,was introduced to "discard" all kind of simulations.You need:a fulcrum(pivot),a stick(unequal arms lever),a second fulcrum(pivot,on lever),a second stick(pendulum,hanging in the second pivot,on the lever).It's a "cut down",minimal amount of a design,no more.Now,you can play Milkovic's pendular lever in reality,in the same simplicity,as you are drawing two lines(lever and pendulum) on the paper.If you add two masses("hammer" and "pendulum") and slide them to and fro on this sticks-system,you get an oversensitive and miscellaneous "toy".Less,sometimes,is more.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: One stick,two sticks...
Post by: iacob alex on December 13, 2006, 11:52:38 PM
...can be the start of a simple conceptual game(and not the only).With a stick/steelyard and a support/fulcrum we have a lever/weighing machine for a comparative/weighing utilisation: a "static's" operation.With two sticks,first as a weighing machine,the second as a swinging pendulum,we have a measurement tool  for a "free dynamics" process,in a direct interplay with the inertial propersty of space.Here,you can take a look at Milkovic"s pendular lever,to decide if this "game" is stimulating.If you like it,you can go further..Success!All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 12:07:16 AM

can you post any experiments you have tried to show this effect closing the loop?  after looking at several of the inventions of milkovic i am very interested in seeing if we can "close the loop"!! i think it can be done in so many ways.  i just hate to see people going down the same road to failure, like a herd of cows following the same trail, if you know what i mean..  posting experiments whether positive or negative can give all alot of things to think about. 

i think that the more that we share the quicker it is to cover ground.
i was once told, "experience is a dear teacher, however it is not the best"!!!!!


ps: i guess what i am trying to say is that we can learn from each others experience.  if we are given the oportunity by sharing.
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on December 14, 2006, 01:20:34 AM
Hi Sam! Sorry,but the last 3 years,I made no experiment,because I am a visiting person here,in US.All that I made was "on paper"(some new designs on my web site and comments on net).Milkovic's pendular lever,with a so great ratio input/output needs a store/restore system,only so to close the loop.This system must work  in a flexible way between the output  and the input.In my designs,  I used only mechanical spare parts.As store-restore system ,I selected that so "old" Watt's Governor.Milkovic plays a swinging pendular lever as an open mechanical system(comparable to a series electrical L-C circuit).I play a spinning pulsatory pendular lever  connected to a Watt flywheel(comparable to connect in parallel an electrical L-C circuit) .The same "seesaw",but in a full tumbling motion on the spot/fulcrum.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: supersam on December 14, 2006, 01:54:36 AM
hey alex,

i have looked at your website on geosites, is there any more thoughts you can give us about your ideas there?  there seem to be alot more advanced than some of our thinking.  what is the best way you can think of to close the loop?

Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on December 14, 2006, 10:10:19 AM
Hi Sam!In my designs about the same topic(pendular lever),I introduced an so "old" mechanical energy store-restore system(Watt's Governor type).So,if you make an input-output , two-faced mechanical-magnetic power transfer,for the Milkovic's two stage mechanical oscillator(my "tag" is pendular lever)the solution,in my opinion, seems to be ,the insertion of  a capacitive store-restore system, let's say an electrical condenser,that works in the same way as a Watt's Governor.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: But if...
Post by: iacob alex on December 14, 2006, 11:58:41 PM
...we try to find ,a natural  equivalent concept for the  Milkovic's pendular lever?So, we have a swinging pendulum, that moves a hammer, interacting with an anvil.We can see in water ,a swinging tail/"pendulum",that moves a body/"hammer-fish" interacting with a fluidic surroundings/"anvil  mass",in a so easy and diversified manner.The basic scene of the action is the same:gravitational field and inertia,in a "rarefied" medium/air, or in a second  circumstance a "condensed"/water,compressed encirclement.Really ,can we say that  a fish plays OU?!In water we have an intimate,close relation between two concerns,so sensible matter of interests :gravity and inertia.And now the question:Milkovic's pendular lever acts as a "gravity fish" ?If so,this is an incredible "fish story"?Here is a dilemma crossing our common beliefs:what says the "nose" of our mind?Outside us,there is nothing new under the sun.Inside us,novelty can play between pleasure and difficulty to understand,accept or disapproval.The die is cast?Time is the wisest of all counselors,so take it easy.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Two sticks on a cart...
Post by: iacob alex on December 24, 2006, 09:06:23 AM
...can be an elementary rebuilding game of Milkovic's pendular lever,this time with a main pivot(of the lever) carried by a mobile platform(cart).If you know the classical lab demo "pendulum on a cart" and "inverted pendulum on a cart",then why not "Milkovic's double oscillatory system on a cart"?We need:a  small stick ,a big stick and a cart.Can we convert the vertical motion of this double oscillatory system into an horizontal push,a forward motion of this simple toy?Something alike of that intended by sea wave energy propulsion(oscillatory hinged navy/drive blade-boat system...if you want fish=body+waving tail).If so,have we a gravity "fish" in our hands?Take this as an amusement,a possible merrymaking.All the Bests!/Alex
Title: Slowing down swinging...
Post by: iacob alex on March 08, 2007, 04:57:06 AM

 ...of the two sticks game(an elementary practical configuration of Milkovoc's "Mechanical hammer with a physical pendulum") can be an easy operation  ,if we take into account the next observation:
      -a physical  pendulum,in the form of a uniform rod(stick) suspended by its end,has a shorter period than the same rod ,suspended as an unequal first class lever.

So,we can slow down the process of Milkovic's mechanical double oscillatory system.

Sliding and than fixing ,the "hammer" mass and "pendular" mass on the "lever" stick and "pendular" stick we can find easy, the  positions for the masses on the sticks,so to get a double oscillatory performance.

This time,a slower pendulum is counterweighted,so needs two masses(long arm with a pendular mass and short arm  with a counterweight).

         All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on March 09, 2007, 03:11:12 AM I like to call Milkovic's  "Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator",in an elementary,formal language can be easy developed if we take into account his comments(see  his movie on ).

When you go over step by step, on  a new path,every real pace is important:the story,the theory comes after.

Milkovic,in his last movie comments,considers his set-up as an inertial balance beam:gravity and inertia keep it moving.

He punctuates the necessity of a rigid structure basement:  the base of the main fulcrum/pivot ,that of the lever must be stable,so to avoid the dissipation("loss") of the "aroused" energy.

A strange fact is that he considers(and goes to show) his unusual, simple, mechanical arrangement  as an one way power as a temporary flow,a washing ,pulsating "river" if you like.

It seems that you can't take the power ,from this pulsing energy "spring"  in a "crank style",so the people think  about a  different manner(induction  via  an electromagnetic field).

Can it be a suggestion for a similitude,a kind of an inertial induction?

Maybe ,we are in the presence of a new phenomenon:the trajectory of the pendular mass(on a balanced,but free fulcrum/pivot) has such a shape (vis-a-vis the gravity reference frame/a potential flow),that asks for a certain reaction from the inertia:as we move  a closed circuit in a magnetic field,and get a pulsatory current, flow...remind   the begginings of the electricity,two hundreds years ago.

As Prof Milkovic said,the research is the only way  to learn something:we must run experiments,not simulations   on the screen.Why?Because the mathematical description is "time-out" this moment.

In my opinion,to find easy the "fit" size of the your own Milkovic's device replication,we can put on paper firstly(or in our mind...) two sticks/bars:one for the lever,one for the pendulum.

On them,you can slide the masses(one for the pendulum,one for the beam),so to find the critical/oscillating point of this arrangement,and than fix them.

Now,you can play and develop in your manner how to draw out power.

Pay attention,it's an addictive game: the curiosity can become a passion(as that of Milkovic...)for the mind,so take it easy.

       All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on March 19, 2009, 01:57:59 AM

    ...the most simple design(and test),you can see at    ,then click on  "Some _Drafts"/UNTITLED)001.JPG.

     All that you need are

       -a long straight,unbent stick,as a lever

       -a short curved,bent stick, as an asymmetric pendulum( see Evert's proposal,at   )

       -a pivot on the short arm of the lever,for pendulum

       -a pivot on fulcrum for the lever

    In a way,this drawing paraphrases the Evert's presentation(three equal arms,with three alike asymmetrical pendulum).

    If we add a heavy hub ( the lever's pivot) on fulcrum,as a temporary storage(charge-discharge) system have a simple toy,to play gravity and rotational inertia.

          All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on March 19, 2009, 05:52:25 AM's the most simple kid's game: a see-saw with a one only apparent player(asymmetric pendulum),the other with a hiding place(the long arm of the lever).

      If we try a rotational motion,rather then a swinging/see-saw motion,the visible partner is rotating and swinging in the same time,but the  "unseen" partner is rotaing,only.

     Now: how about a self motion?!

               All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on March 28, 2009, 10:17:46 PM a simple standard puzzle game,you can play so easy.

       In the same time,it's an introductory way into the fascinating real world of non-linear dynamics.

       Take a look at   so to understand that some notorious people,attempted to figure out and formalize ,this simple "game" on paper(Leibnitz),long time ago...

        Today,a lot of people make an effort to size the same simple phenomenon,with simulation methods on "screen",but then and now,as a limited  achievement.

         It seems that the best manner to master a new game,with a vague set of rules,is simply,to play it.

         Think about shadouf,old country fountain,Milkovic's pendulum with a lever,and...why not?!...your quick test revelation.

                   All the Bests!  /  Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on June 03, 2009, 12:54:08 AM

  ...requires,no more than  two spare parts and some curiosity.

     Take a look at :

     It's an elementary assembly of two sticks/spare parts/levers/poles :one big,uncurved and one small,curved.

     The eventually unstable behaviour can be checked out,more easy in reality...than on paper (lack of theory,physical knowledge,and descriptive calculus).

     References ;

            All the Bests! / Alex     
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: hansvonlieven on June 03, 2009, 01:51:29 AM
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on June 29, 2010, 11:16:54 AM   

       Try to replace the swinging motion of the big stick,with a continuous turning one,and if possible...make it "self".

           All the best! / Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on November 10, 2010, 02:20:19 PM can watch up-here,on youtube,is a kinetic sculpture.

     So easy,we can consider this one,as an accurate expression of Milkovic's "lever with a pendulum".

     If Milkovic plays swinging motion,my suggestion was to play one-way rotation,and if achievable,a self-acting motion...

     In  my opinion,we can make at this point ,a direct connection with some topics of this part of the forum as : "Two arms..." , "The simpliest motor..." and others.

     Maybe,the most favorable case of interest of this plain arrangement of minimum spare parts,is the facility to make simple experiments about a possible gravity motor.

     Anyway,it is better to hope and endeavour,than to be in a nice fix and despair...

        All the best! / Alex
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on June 17, 2011, 07:32:30 PM

  We have a great lever(a long unbalanced stick) and a small lever (a small unbalanced stick) ,working in gravity and inertia...

  If you introduce a rotation limiter (0-180*) for the small stick (an unbalanced lever that plays as an pendulum equivalent),you can play a "new game".

      All the best ! / Alex 
Title: Re: Two sticks game...
Post by: iacob alex on July 10, 2018, 05:00:34 PM a kinetic sculpture , at :
     When science and art play together the common language of simplicity (two swinging sticks , only...), as a manner to express the continuous (perpetual) motion (mobile) concept...