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Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 1146295 times)

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #1995 on: October 19, 2021, 10:54:34 AM »
Hi Wesley,
I stated that OU site is full of BS. It is hard to find a valuable information because it is immediately covered by tons of BS.
Your topic about Zenneck surface wave is very informative.
But it deals with "transmission of energy".
I am more concerned about creating/converting/getting some energy.
Thonemann patent could be found on internet US3085189. It is used to drive current in tokamak plasma for heating it. The same effect is happening if instead plasma we insert conductor.
Similiarities with Steven Marks words:
1.Patent is owned by US Atomic Energy Commision.
2.Electrons drift  in gas or central conductor caused by travelling wave is enchancing that travelling wave. That gives feedback effect which is feeding that process. "Furnace that is feeding itself"
3.DC in central conductor.


PS.
In fact I pointed this patent to overunityforum a while ago  ;)


Cheers,
Pix

« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 01:09:44 PM by pix »

stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #1996 on: October 24, 2021, 02:29:29 AM »
I gave TPU patent on the silver plate and nobody bothers  :o

Analysis of the patent
no final conclusions  are made in this  post yet:

so :
1.   we can place any tube inside of helix ( coil).2.   That tube will have   two electrodes from both  ends.
3.   one of electrodes will act as cathode and another as anode.
3a. anode "may not be" needed if we plan to shot the particle out ...
      -that can be compared to:
      CRT of TV where  screen doesn't have phosphor screen and  anode grid.. the particle is accelerated and just shot out.
      however traditional CRT mechanism of accelerating is much better for that.


4. While particle in circular tube  the wave makes  full 360 degrees, the wave in the circuit LC  is "dying"( please read in the text of  the patent)
   this point 4 will be corrected in next comment as it is not accurate.

5.   It is  an electro-magnetic induction device for the conversion of radio frequency electrical energy into direct current electrical energy,
      we delivering :
RF at 1MHz
of power ~2-3kW
and in result we  have at the ends of the vacuum tube:
 4-5V 
of DC power ~2-3kW

________________________________________
However  we can also  make reverse action.
where we delivering  DC to the tube and we getting in result the  ~1MHz...2-3kW

Yet another  scenario is that when we
 "modulate" DC( with voice) varying its amplitude
or  we do reverse action means  we take 1MHz and modulate it with  AM Voice than   the other  part of the device  acts as demodulator..


So it is a sort of  very clever  transforming device....a "transformer"
 however  coil 20 ( figure 1) has yet another application

Wesley
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 01:09:55 PM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #1997 on: October 24, 2021, 03:55:42 AM »
to get full text of the patent 
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3085189A/en
and than  on the right hand side  click
Download PDF

____________________________________________________
Acceleration mechanism:

From the perspective of transmission line:
 made of C and L the impedance matching  doesn't care about individual
12 winds sections  of the coil spaced by every  next C capacitor .
The shorted  end is not seen as  shorted transmission line but as the last 12winds ending the LC section .

Note:
 50 Ohm  impedance   output/input is the widely  used standard for all of the devices
in the world such as  generators , analyzers, amplifiers and so on.


From view  of the 50 Ohm generator output:
-the entire section of all L and C connected to the generator , must represent  by itself the impedance of 50 Ohm to reach SWR 1:1
So  at resonance  for generator the entire coil/capacitors assembly acts as the load.

-Well not .... only the resistive R load is the pure  load converting energy into  heat.   
The LC "loads" don't dissipate  energy
Quote
reactive loads such as inductors and capacitors dissipate zero power,
yet the fact that they drop voltage and draw current gives the deceptive impression
that they actually do dissipate power. This “phantom power” is called reactive power,
and it is measured in a unit called Volt-Amps-Reactive (VAR), rather than watts.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-11/true-reactive-and-apparent-power/

but to understand  why we say that any LC antenna is the load  to the transmitter even if LC  doesn't dissipate energy
there is a need for deeper  explanation .. so I  just stop here  for now...
think of it as:
-LC circuit doesn't dissipate energy because Wesley said so and he gave link to this explanation .
- any antenna  is a... LC circuit and  we often  call it a load as   it acts as a load but..from another hand the LC circuit 
   can't dissipate reactive power..



 it is not important how many LC sections is there.. it must be  50 Ohm... that's all.
In reality I don't believe  that 50 Ohm standard applies there.
-the output of the generator can be made to match to whatever is the  impedance of the  LC assembly.
 When you make experiment , you care less about the international standards as long as it works for you..
... it is just easier for you, to make generator  with impedance  matching that of  coil capacitor assembly winded on the glass tube - accelerator 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Form particle in vacuum tube perspective: nothing is important 
the particle  is affected by drag made by first section of 12  winds  and  accelerated by second section and so on...



Wesley
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 01:32:48 PM by stivep »

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #1998 on: October 24, 2021, 12:09:57 PM »
Hi Wesley,
Imagine process:
-central conductor is "kicked" by HV source to free electrons from metal lattice while at the same time travelling wave process described in the patent goes on.
Electrons drift is done much easier then, without ohmic loss caused by metal lattice collisions.
To visualise it better- electrons jumps out of the conductor during HV potential "kick" and then are dragged alongside conductor by travelling wave, falling back to central conductor. Net current and voltage difference occurs at the ends of central conductor.
Maybe that is a key to SM words about "kicks" and a "catalyst"?


Regards,
Pix

kolbacict

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #1999 on: October 24, 2021, 01:57:40 PM »
What is this, an analog computer?
To simulate the Schrödinger equation in real time?


stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2000 on: October 24, 2021, 02:07:25 PM »
Analysis of the patent:
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg561071/#msg561071


You confused me:
Hi Wesley,
Imagine process:
-central conductor is "kicked" by HV source
we have traveling wave in the coil around the tube  but not inside of the glass tube...
in the glass tube we have DC electron drift. from cathode to anode... if we have anode.. as this can be just  a fist stage of an  electron gun..
the cathode is not heated - it is cold cathode.
the tube has  vacuum inside :- it means no grid.. no anode under  HV..
the different story is when patent is talking about propelling "jet " engine application..

here is the quote from the patent:
Quote
The invention is based on the phenomenon that the progressive magnetic field of a traveling Wave (for example the traveling
wave produced in a loaded transmission line or by spaced coils excited in different phases) exerts a unidirectional drag upon electrons in the field and that conversely
a unidirectional notion of electrons tends to produce or enhance a traveling wave.

 
Meaning of Traveling wave  may be confusing as explaining   formula not always relates to
the origin of the wave and the type of the wave. So longitudinal waves are excluded from quantum  worlds and belongs entirely  into classical mechanics.
So when  you look at  wave phenomena you must !! always remember  that you are reading the right explanation for right  type of wave.
To make it more confusing..
classical physics  called classical mechanics is  an observable world - something we can see or sense without special equipment..
-some wave behavior in both  words the classical physic and quantum physics can be very similar so often we use  longitudinal wave behavior to 
explain electromagnetic waves that belongs to quantum world.
example: the statement
Quote
Traveling wave  is a wave in which the medium moves in the direction of propagation.
applies to  longitudinal mechanical wave  that belongs to  classical mechanic section of the physics
here is yet another  explanation of Traveling  wave:
 https://byjus.com/physics/travelling-wave/#:~:text=A%20wave%20can%20be%20described%20as%20a%20disturbance,the%20medium%20is%20known%20as%20a%20travelling%20wave.


Wesley
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 11:16:28 PM by stivep »

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2001 on: October 24, 2021, 04:59:52 PM »
Hi Wesley,
Thanks for your time analysing patent.


In the first section of patent (claims) it describes that  unidirectional current could be driven by progressive magnetic field of travelling wave  if there is fixed longitudal metallic conductor in the centre :
"The drag may be utilised for the acceleration of elec
trons in a vacuum discharge tube to resuit in a new form
of linear accelerator.
Or it may be utilised for establishing a unidirectional
current or voltage in a circuit comprising a relatively
fixed longitudinal conductor or semi-conductor. In this
case the exciting alternating current energy and a recti
fying device results which yields a uniform or modulated
output dependent on the exciting or input energy".


We know that in metals  flow of current is experiencing resistance due to collisions with atoms in metal lattice.
This is my proposal to overcome or reduce ohmic losses for  electrons drift in central conductor, caused by progressive magnetic field of travelling wave.
By kicking them out of central conductor by HV pulses at the same time.
Thermionic emission may also take place and enhance the process once central conductor gets heated by current flowing.
As SM stated for his TPU, he had a "DC current with some hasch".
Very interesting  thing for Thonemann energy converter is that :
" progressive magnetic field of a travelling Wave (for ex
ample the travelling wave produced in a loaded transmis
sion line or by spaced coils excited in different phases)
exerts a unidirectional drag upon eiectrons in the field
and that conversely a unidirectional notion of electrons
tends to produce or enhance a travelling wave. "


So we have self supporting action.


This is a beauty:
Progressive magnetic field could be easily created by loaded transmission line or by multiphase winding. So, for coils drive we can use even 3 phase current from wall socket.


Kind Regards,
Pix

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2002 on: October 24, 2021, 06:29:57 PM »
Wesley,
"The drag may be utilized for the acceleration of electrons in a vacuum discharge tube to result in a new form of linear accelerator.Or it may be utilized for establishing a unidirectional current or voltage in a circuit comprising a relatively fixed longitudinal conductor or semi-conductor. In this case the exciting alternating current energy and a rectifying device results which yields a uniform or modulated output dependent on the exciting or input energy".


Quote: "you can't accelerate electrons in conductor".
Indeed. That is why I want to kick them out of conductor, by HV pulse . Now they can be accelerated by progressive magnetic field of traveling wave at the moments they jumped out of conductor  ;)


Regards,
Pix
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 06:47:06 PM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2003 on: October 24, 2021, 06:38:22 PM »
Analysis of the patent:
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg561071/#msg561071

Wesley,
"The drag may be utilized for the acceleration of electrons in a vacuum discharge tube to result in a new form of linear accelerator.
Or it may be utilized for establishing a unidirectional current or voltage in a circuit comprising a relatively fixed longitudinal conductor or semi-conductor. In this case the exciting alternating current energy and a rectifying device results which yields a uniform or modulated output dependent on the exciting or input energy".
True but  there is no word about proposed by you tube with conductor inside..
In order TO KICK electrons out of the conductor it must be representing a cathode but not the  conductive path from  one side of the tube  to another.

Please read my comment about  acceleration from above.
So how do you propose your own device ...BASED ON ALL SAID ABOVE.
Wesley

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2004 on: October 24, 2021, 07:00:26 PM »
Wesley,
My proposal:
Central conductor in form of ring, may be inserted in vacuum glass tube ( to ease exit of electrons when kicked by HV pulses), outside are located coils for creating progressive magnetic field of travelling wave.
Process:
1. create travelling wave  by loaded transmission line or multiphase driven coils upon central conductor ring located inside
2. kick central conductor with HV pulses
3. when electrons are kicked outside central conductor by HV pulse they experience acceleration by travelling wave and they drops back to central conductor. Jumps and acceleration of electrons repeat every HV pulse. That is creating current flow and potential difference in central conductor.  Additionally, accelerated electrons when they fall back to central conductor may collide with electrons inside conductor and give them energy necessary to leave conductor. This process may multiply current.


Please see attached. But of course arrangements may vary. We may not use vacuum glass tube but dielectric around central conductor, the important is to kick electrons out of conductor.


Regards,
Pix




stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2005 on: October 24, 2021, 07:22:26 PM »
Analysis of the patent:
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg561071/#msg561071


if the red  circle inside if the vacuum tube is your closed coil acting as electron emitter, how do you apply high voltage
to it?
What is the  path of the electrons emitted  from the conductor?
where are  the potential difference points (like in normal accelerator  anode  cathode)?
what is the gain  (an increase in the value of power)   you getting from any of your proposed configuration?

Wesley

pix

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2006 on: October 24, 2021, 07:43:41 PM »
Wesley,
To kick central conductor by HV we need to introduce another electrode.
It may be another conductor located outside vacuum glass tube. Glass serves isolator. On top of it we locate driving coils or traveling wave armature coils.


Regards,
Pix
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 07:56:35 PM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2007 on: October 24, 2021, 09:11:58 PM »
Analysis of the patent:
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg561071/#msg561071


In picture from above named Question.jpg
 - redacted by you there is presence of:
1. HV inner coil acting upon another inner coil that is inside of glass envelope making 1:1 "air" transformer.
    Because HV impulse is AC (leading edge falling edge) it will induce  HV in open loop inside of the  glass envelope.
2. Because HV impulse is AC (leading edge falling edge) it will induce  HV in  accelerating set of coils - its LC components.
    for accelerating of electrons there is a need of  anode and cathode or  cathode and  target ending point for accelerated particles.
    You don't have this structure inside the glass envelope.
e. the direction of electrons  is perpendicular to the direction of acceleration now.
__________________________________________________________________
 You didn't respond to the questions:

where are  the potential difference points (like in normal accelerator  anode  cathode)?
what is the gain  (an increase in the value of power)   you getting from any of your proposed configuration?

Wesley

AlienGrey

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2008 on: October 24, 2021, 10:36:30 PM »
Wesley here is a not so simple question and it's not what we are always told
How fast does an electron travel through a wire or should I say - a magnetically charged electron
or is it the other way round, what ever!

I ask this as if it traveled at a constant speed
then how could any thing possibly work ?
Regards Sil
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 02:20:18 AM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #2009 on: October 25, 2021, 02:17:23 AM »
How fast does an electron travel through a wire
I ask this as if it traveled at a constant speed
then how could any thing possibly work ?
An electron in the copper wire travels at a speed of about 1 cm/sec. This is about as fast as an ant scurries on the ground.
The speed of an electron in a wire really has virtually nothing to do with the speed of a signal.
https://www.informit.com/articles/article.
Wesley