Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 1147288 times)

AlienGrey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3713
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2018, 10:30:16 PM »
Hi AG,

Okay on your comments in the Stiffler thread, thanks, and hopefully you manage to build a simple synthesizer with reasonably small components count.   8)     Have you noticed my earlier reply to you here, perhaps you did:

Gyula
Yes I did thanks  however I had already worked through a PCB design by then, but did think of building your design but the the MM5369 looks as if it has gone extinct by 2006 (divide by 17) as well as the 74C90's it might be possible to use a PIC F509 or similar device for the MM5369
See here
http://www.frank-buss.de/PIC100/index.html

and the 7490's a CD4518 dual decade counter that's pretty fast at 8 volts.
If i can solve those problems it would be worth making.

AG

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2018, 05:16:39 AM »
Hi guys.

Sorry that the schematic image is a bit wide. I am in a hurry.
I will just post the schematic and patent doc I was referring to. Don't have time to comment much right now.

In around 1923, an American electrical engineer named Frank Wyatt Prentice was doing research work for the railroad
in the area of wireless power transfer/wireless power control, and says he discovered that sending
a HV HF waveform (at resonance) from a long wire a little above the ground in the freq. area of about 500 kHz
to a receiving loop antenna was giving him a power gain (COP) of about 6.
For now I will just attach the schematic with some explanatory notes I added and the Canadian patent application
document which was approved in 1925. Not sure why he patented it in Canada, but maybe he was working in Canada
at the time, but that is just a guess. Maybe there was some other reason.

He hypothesized that when the long wire transmitting antenna was at resonance at around 500 kHz that it was resonating with
the earth currents and this caused the mysterious power gain (COP of about 6). He used a sparkgap in the long
wire antenna and tuned the wire for exact resonance, and had two earth ground connections at each end of the long transmitting wire.

He used a small tuned loop antenna to receive the power. He stated about 500 W input and about 3 kW output,
powering 50 x 60W carbon filament light bulbs to 'full candle power'. See the attached schematic and patent doc.
Although I am pretty sure he was just guessing about his antenna resonating at the same frequency as earth ground currents
which caused the power gain, he does make some interesting observations about how small height and frequency changes
affected the output power. What really made it work (assuming he wasn't making a major measurement error) is anyone's guess.

Replace the resonant long wire transmitting antenna with a resonant tesla coil and the small loop receiving antenna with a receiving coil
and you would essentially have a very compact version of the setup seemingly similar to Kapanadze. He said you could replace the
earth ground hop with a metal wire, but it reduced the performance. Maybe Kapanadze just figured out how to make this sort of setup 
work with a single earth ground connection and much more compact arrangement...

P.S. I forgot to label #21 on the drawing. It is of course a sparkgap.
Frank Prentice may possibly have been a Canadian, as the patent ownership was listed as:
THE PRENTICE ELECTRIC POWER APPLIANCE COMPANY OF CANADA LIMITED
However, for some reason Frank Prentice put his location on the patent drawing as Meadville, Penn'a (Pennsylvania).
At any rate, what I am drawing attention to is the similarities of the setup in his patent doc to Kapanadze/DalyAkula devices. :)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 03:30:06 PM by Void »

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2018, 06:25:23 PM »
An interesting side note on 'Frank Wyatt Prentice'.
I found an entry on the ancestry.ca website for a 'Frank Wyatt Prentice'.
The info listed seems to match reasonably well with the Frank Wyatt Prentice who filed the Canadian patent:

Frank Wyatt Prentice (1868 - 1937)
Born in Garrettsville, Ohio, USA on 1868.
Frank Wyatt Prentice married Adelia Roberts and had 6 children.
He passed away on 7 Nov 1937 in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
https://www.ancestry.ca/genealogy/records/frank-wyatt-prentice_69000255

So, if this is referring to the same 'Frank Wyatt Prentice', it seems he was
born in the USA but later moved to Canada. This would seem to explain why
this guy seemed to be associated with both the USA and Canada, and filed his
patent application in Canada. If it is the same guy, it appears some of his children
might still be alive, although they would be pretty old.
The wonders of the internet... :)


jojo500

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2018, 07:02:07 AM »
hm.. 500khz .. that's a wavelength of lambda 1= 600m

how ever one could use lambda1/4 as a coil ore box antenna without ending up having what's called a magnetic antenna as long as you use a relateivly  long groundwire  (say 20m for a first test) .
look at the videos of some of the guyes, some of em mad a lot of effort to get the best earth ground they can get .. and at the same time they use a sh..ty wire to connect to the device! an allways relatively long sooo?

just how i look at it :)

apecore

  • Guest
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2018, 08:22:07 AM »


Here is some of what I take away from Prentice's patent comments as being noteworthy:
The frequency you tune to may well be quite critical, and you may have to experiment tuning through a wide range of frequencies
to see what might work in your specific location and with your specific setup. I think this would not be so easy to do at all with
a tesla coil which resonates at a specific frequency.

Hi Void,

Yes it could be a important parameter the location and its specific frequenty to tune.
This would not make it easyer due we would need to stick on the long wire principle........   Using the wire as a coil it would effect its inductance and therefore the needed caps to tune it in the right specific resonance (earth).
This all together probably the first step to think about is resulting in a lot of "mayor" changes...regarding the patent setup.

1- if specific frequenty is approx 500khz.... and the setup needs in that order a specific reactance from the capacitor this needs to be related to the wire inductance (coil part), so changing the wire into a coil would have a mayor effect on this relationship.

2- If the frequenty is not depending on the location .... and more related to the COP factor it would be possible to use shorter wire (same physical configuration),..  but using a higher frequenty.

This last statement is in fact also a kapanadze/ dally approach due the wire lengths are shorter and also the inductance ( now it is getting tricky,...  800 mter wire what would its inductance be?...  would it approx. the same as the bifilar kapanadze coil?  ( 100- 300uH)

Lets formulte some objectives before starting drilling groundrods..

a) Wire or coil in relation to capacitance / inductance reactance ........is a specific capacitance reactance needed?
b) Is wirelength a power factor or related to the needed eart(location) frequenty?

Just some out of the box suggestions.


Greetings



Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2018, 04:26:51 AM »
We appear to again be wandering off onto esoteric operating theories that really in my opinion do not relate to what we witness as in Kapanadze's various demos. Kapanadze stated to a.king21's team during the Aqua2 demo, along the lines, that the earth ground was not essential and that the device could work without it, albeit at reduced performance. Also, Kapanadze was wary of operataing the device during stormy weather conditions. This information, if accurate, does not suggest to me that the source of energy was from the ground. The Aqua 2 device apparently had just one ground wire, so could not have operated using the two ground rod principle shown by Wesley. The clues here rather suggest an aeriel source of energy that is returned to ground via the device. Those that have carefully studied the 'green box' series of videos will have seen an aeriel wire from the perimeter fence adjacent the roadway, to the tree in the garden. Although its not possible to conclude that this wire was carrying energy to the device, nonetheless, in my opinion, its far more unlikely that the source of energy was contained within the device box itself. Ruling out simple deliberate faking, then maybe Kapanadze discovered some clever method of extracting energy using an elevated long horizontal aerial??

Hi Hoppy. I personally make no definite assumptions about how these setups might actually work,
if any do really work. That could end up leading a person down the garden path if they make one or more wrong assumptions.
However, we do know all the basic components used by people like Prentice and maybe Daly
as well, so, for people who are interested, experimenting with similar setups without making
any assumptions where ever possible is probably not a bad approach to take.

If the story and video of Kapanadze's demo on the island is at all accurate, there wasn't likely
any chance of Kapanadze or his friends preparing anything at the unknown location in advance.

Regarding Prentice. In 1923 when 'energy shortages' were probably unheard of, there wasn't likely any large
and pressing monetary motivation for Prentice to 'make up' the claims he made in his patent application. He probably
just viewed it as an interesting anomaly that might potentially be made use of commercially some day, but there probably
wasn't any  pressing motivation at all back then for Prentice or others to spend too much time investigating it further.
This is why I find his patent document to be very interesting, and why I have posted the details here again.

My thought is why the sparkgap at the end of the long wire? Could it be doing something similar to what Kapanadze is using one for?
The problem for experimenters is sparkgaps generate a lot of HV electrical 'noise' (wideband radiation) and it often makes
digital equipment go on the blink or sometimes blows circuits. Not so easy to work with if you want to try to do careful measurements. :)


Hoppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4135
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2018, 09:58:44 AM »

My thought is why the sparkgap at the end of the long wire? Could it be doing something similar to what Kapanadze is using one for?
The problem for experimenters is sparkgaps generate a lot of HV electrical 'noise' (wideband radiation) and it often makes
digital equipment go on the blink or sometimes blows circuits. Not so easy to work with if you want to try to do careful measurements. :)
Hi Void,

Interesting thought about the Prentice long line spark-gap. If the Prentice patent bears a resemblance to Kapanadze's devices, then it might explain the apparently low tech and rather crudely contructed devices in his demos. The grenade might be acting as a HV step-down transformer. As you say, its a difficult platform for experimentation.

Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2018, 06:43:27 PM »
I think the following attached drawing is the general idea of how these setups might be 'over unity' (COP > 1).
The drawing is not at all meant to be a working OU circuit, but just shows the general idea of how these setups
might possibly achieve COP > 1. When we include interaction with the surrounding environment in a setup, we may
no longer have an entirely 'closed loop system', and the potential is there at least for seeing a COP > 1 by drawing in
energy from the environment somehow. Exactly how it might work, such as capturing cosmic or solar radiations / high energetic particles
or ions or other charged particles, or by resonating with telluric currents, or drawing in 'energy from the vacuum', etc. is still anyone's
guess I think, unless someone wants to spill the beans here. :) 

apecore

  • Guest
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2018, 07:12:03 PM »
Hi Apecore. Unfortunately I think no one can say for certain what might work and what might not.
My suggestion is for anyone interested to look at the basic components of circuits by
people like Daly, Akula, and Prentice, and try some different setups and see what kind of results you get.
If anyone gets any interesting results, they can post those results here if they like.


Void,
Thanks again for your response.
I do agree we do not know what might work...  but we do have the oppertunity to disclose  f.e.  Wyatt's system step by step,...  by doing tests and see whats happening,....  important is the explanation why it will or won't do what was expected.

I like your simple approach in your last post....  i do agree we have to "cut "the elefant in pieces...  else we won t get in "standing up and walk"

I d like to combine the next step..    the resonance of the wire(19) in to your simple schematic.
In my opinion a  wave wil to fit into wire (19)...  The patent is suggesting that 0.8Km  compares with 0.5Mhz....  when tuned..  its close to the ( 300/ 800 = 0.375Mhz)...
In this case probably a full wave between secondary (13) and SG (21)...
When we use shorter wire length ratio's the frequenty will increase.... 

I did some measurements on a 40meter wire in my garden... placing it in a big circle in order to have the both ends close together for measuring the inductance.
This 40meter wire has a inductance of approx 55uH.
If we want to start from the convetional way...  (Coil>> Cap>> resonance) ..  the HV caps connected to earth will be very small.
As comparing to the Wyatt setup..  the frequenty at a 40Meter wire would be 20 times higher....  about 10Mhz..

Unless this all makes it proabably much difficult i do think we need to stay as much as possible to the original Wyatt patent configuration.
I hope you agree with this approach.

Greetings




Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2018, 07:49:03 PM »
Apecore, it sounds like a good experiment approach to me.
I have conducted a number of experiments along this line already in the past,
so I am now taking a bit of time to review some of the basic setups by Kapanadze, Prentice, Daly, Akula again
and thinking about it all some more. As soon as I get some time I will continue with more experiments.
I am still reviewing info and thinking more about it all right at the moment. Trying to think
of some different approaches to take based on what I have already tried in my previous experiments. :)





apecore

  • Guest
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2018, 08:05:34 PM »
Apecore, it sounds like a good experiment approach to me.
I have conducted a number of experiments along this line already in the past,
so I am now taking a bit of time to review some of the basic setups by Kapanadze, Prentice, Daly, Akula again
and thinking about it all some more. As soon as I get some time I will continue with more experiments.
I am still reviewing info and thinking more about it all right at the moment. Trying to think
of some different approaches to take based on what I have already tried in my previous experiments. :)

Ok i m fine with that.

I will see if i can make a setup running on either a sub harmonic (primairy side)..  in order to tune the secundairy at the approx. 10Mhz.
Getting it running and stable...   should be the first goal.

And of coarse frequenty adjustable in order to tune the secundairy frequenty in most efficient way

Greetings

stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2018, 02:46:43 AM »
Negative resistance generator: Chua’s Circuit Presentation and Applications chaotic generator.
some reference material.
We are interested with impedance  generator  based on  resistance generator.
http://www.analogzoo.com/2018/01/negative-impedance-converters/
 http://www.jestr.org/downloads/Volume6Issue4/fulltext11642013.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIBFuuJiy4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-XsyeFfp-U (#0124) Relay Relaxation Oscillator with Negative Resistance

Wesley


 
 

mkjekyll

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 56
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2018, 05:49:18 PM »
With a grounded system one is looking at something similar to the lightening return stroke. The earth echos back a reciprocal of the E wave which needs to be converted from it's conjugant state by plasma coupling or inductance. Each bolt of lightening has up to six strokes one to the earth one back from the earth etc.   http://apollo.lsc.vsc.edu/classes/met130/notes/chapter14/stroke3.html

look here, can you see the quandry of this Tesla device? 
It is also negative resistance and what he used to record lightening strikes:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/coloradonotes/coloradonotes02.htm#Colorado%20Springs%20Notes%20-%20June%201-30,%201899


Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2018, 06:01:45 AM »
Hi Wesley. While the two separate earth ground approach may very possibly be a viable
way to achieve COP > 1 (Frank Prentice used two separate earth ground connections on his transmitting long wire, for example),
in all the Kapanadze demos videos I have seen, Kapanadze appeared to use only one earth ground connection (at a time). You have
seen Kapanadze's setup operating up close in person once or twice right? Do you agree that it only used one earth ground connection?
Just want to see if we are on the same page on at least that particular detail. :)


Void

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2018, 06:40:36 AM »
Negative resistance generator: Chua’s Circuit Presentation and Applications chaotic generator.
some reference material.
We are interested with impedance  generator  based on  resistance generator.
http://www.analogzoo.com/2018/01/negative-impedance-converters/

Interesting video!