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Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 1131481 times)

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3075 on: October 16, 2023, 03:54:26 PM »
Hello Wesley!
I did not find possibility to download Frungel books in English without paying.
Found it in Russian, you can read Russian, right?
I couldn't find the title of this book or source. Can anyone provide the link or title of this book by Frungel?
I was about to go to work in the lab.
So what you need to do is :
Switch your VPN to  USA  e.g. NY.
Than go to  link :
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231781707_Arc-liberated_chemical_energy_exceeds_electrical_input_energy

Than on that page press:
"Download full text PDF"
you may also look for the link by title:
Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy PETER GRANEAU," NEAL GRANEAU,# GEORGE HATHAWAY$ and RICHARD L. HULL
J. Plasma Physics (2000), vol. 63, part 2, pp. 115–128. Printed in the United Kingdom # 2000 Cambridge University Press 115 Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy PETER GRANEAU," NEAL GRANEAU,# GEORGE HATHAWAY$ and RICHARD L. HULL% " Centre for Electromagnetics Research, Northeastern University, Boston, MA 02115, USA #Department of Engineering Science, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1 3PJ, UK $ Hathaway Consulting Services, 39 Kendal Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5R 1L5 %Tesla Coil Builders of Richmond, 7103 Hermitage Road, Richmond, VA 23228, USA (Received 11 December 1998 and in revised form 5 August 1999)
Quote
This paper reports the first experimental results in which the kinetic energy of cold fog, generated in a water arc plasma, exceeds the electrical energy supplied to form and maintain the arc. The cold fog explosion is produced by breaking down a small quantity of liquid water

_________________
Other  helpful links  in their full form:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-plasma-physics/article/abs/arcliberated-chemical-energy-exceeds-electrical-input-energy/C04579576552F5E2FBA3F8333E2F4DF2
Quote
The 90-year history of unusually strong water arc explosions is reviewed. Experimental observations leave little doubt that internal water energy is being liberated by the sudden electrodynamic conversion of about one-third of the water to dense fog. High-speed photography reveals that the fog expels itself from the water at supersonic velocities. The loss of intermolecular bond energy in the conversion from liquid to fog must be the source of the explosion energy.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379711217302011
Quote
There can be two aspects to this: the shock and sound waves propagated from the expanding arc channel, and the bulk pressurization of the enclosure, if arcing is taking place within a closed volume
Note: the experiment of Dr. Janes
https://youtu.be/YyBahrxRxNw?t=395
https://youtu.be/-aGecOw5UKQ?t=197
https://youtu.be/qkLGSCXOxi8?t=925
is conducted without an enclosure.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0375960186901684
Quote
The most powerful explosion so far observed imparted an impulse of 7 N s to a metallic projectile of 1.6 kg mass. The strengths of the impulses scaled proportionally to the electrodynamic action integral. For an arbitrarily chosen current pulse shape and magnitude, the plasma explosion in saltwater is much more powerful than the action of a railgun.
Here we have the two statements  "more powerful" and  "seawater."
railgun  is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun

Video standing for superiority of  saltwater over aluminum fuse is here:
~Twice more strong effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SKce1OneE&t=186s

-some explanation but not exactly related is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_rocket
-Not related but interesting: https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2020/t_6.html
Application in Trojmiasto  used only saltwater.
https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/msg582676/#msg582676

http://tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Electrolysis_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Leavitt%20-%20Do%20water%20arc%20explosions%20release%20internal%20water%20energy%20-%202013.pdf
“Do water arc explosions release internal water energy? If so, what is the source of the released energy?” Tucker Leavitt Senior Project Advisor: Steve Smith


http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Electrolysis_Water_Arc_and_Dielectric_Breakdown/Graneau%20-%20The%20Anomalous%20strength%20of%20Cold%20Fog%20Explosions%20caused%20by%20High%20Current%20Water%20Arcs%20-%201998.pdf
THE ANOMALOUS STRENGTH OF COLD FOG EXPLOSIONS CAUSED BY HIGH CURRENT WATER ARCS N. Graneau
Quote
bonding  vibrational force constant : 24 and 32meV.
Wesley
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 08:04:08 PM by stivep »

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3076 on: October 17, 2023, 09:04:48 AM »
Hello Wesley!
  I think you misunderstood me. I previously read and analyzed this article:

P.Graneau, N.Graneau "Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy"

 The article contains a lot of extraneous information about the shape of the discharge, the amazing holes that the water discharge creates in aluminium, and other  visual effects. But the article does not calculate efficiency, there is no real determination of how much energy is consumed and how much is produced.

Therefore, I need additional materials referred to by the authors of the article:

P.Graneau, N.Graneau "Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy"
Quote
During the Second World War, Frungel (1948) measured the unusual strength of water arc explosions. He concluded that the explosions were not caused by heat and steam, and admitted freely that he was unable to explain the phenomenon.
Soon after Frungel’s publications, water arc explosions found applications in electrohydraulic metal forming (Gilchrist & Crossland 1967) and underwater pulse echo sounding (Frungel 1965).

References
...
Frungel, F. 1948 Optik 3, 125.
Frungel, F. 1965 High Speed Pulse Technology, Vol. 2. Academic Press, New York.
...
References to Frungel seemed to be found in the themes of Edwin V Gray:

Patent US3890548A Pulsed capacitor discharge electric engine

At the beginning of the patent we see:

Quote
  OTHER PUBLICATIONS
 Frungel, High Speed Pulse Technology, Academic Press Inc., 1965, pp. 140-148.

 Of course, his old videos with tossing up objects from discharges correspond to the themes of Frungel’s or Graneau's works.
EV Gray 1986 Promotional Video - Part 1

EV Gray 1986 Promotional Video - Part 2

EV Gray 1986 Promotional Video - Part 3

Edwin Gray's patent also contains something similar to a spark gap.

Efficient power supply suitable for inductive loads

Efficient electrical conversion switching tube suitable for inductive loads

Let's get acquainted with the books of this Frungel together, maybe there will be answers to our questions.
I found a scan of a large, thick book by Frungel about spark gaps and discharges in water, but in Russian, translated from German:

Pages 272 - 283 Frungel Frank Pulse technology. Generation and application of capacitor discharges. 1965

But in this book, Frungel nowhere declares obtaining overunity or free energy, or efficiency above 0.7.

Maybe you or someone from the community can tell us links to download Frungel books in English or German or another?

Frungel
, High Speed Pulse Technology, Academic Press Inc., 1965, pp. 140-148.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 02:06:46 PM by Sergh »

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3077 on: October 17, 2023, 11:09:26 AM »
Mouse's answer about that,what could was inside grenade kapanadze.
http://geoisotopes.com/ru/boron-ru

It's good if so. If it is related to the "Borenium Salt", which is indicated in the picture as being inside the Kapanadze coil.
But what next? Why is some boron salt poured into the coil?
And why is it literally written "Borenium salt"
Isn't it boron salt?

It can be assumed that on the bottle from which this salt was poured, it was literally written “Borenium salt”. But what is it then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boranylium_ions

Quote
... A borenium ion is an inorganic cation In this class of molecules, the electron-deficient boron center
Reactivity and applications

Electrophilic aromatic borylation

Some electrophilic chemicals that are used in advanced organic chemistry.  :-\
It remains unclear whether this salt is poured only on one side, which is somehow illogical, or whether the entire space in which the ferrite rings and “Tesla bifilar coils” are located is covered with it? That is, is this "Borenium salt" one of the main components or an auxiliary component?

If you look closely, the ferrite rings form a pyramid. The diameter of the rings gradually decreases from left to right.
Why is this necessary? I can assume that some kind of flow must cover the entire surface of the rings and carry away or bring something.
I assume that this diagram is incomplete, some components are missing.  In this form, the circuit cannot work, while creating a ground current of 26 amperes 50 Hz with a meager capacitance relative to the surface.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 02:19:29 PM by Sergh »

hartiberlin

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3078 on: October 17, 2023, 03:52:56 PM »
  Yes  and here is my response: "overunity"  is the word and the term.
As a word used by some guy  who found $100 on the street of Chicago is OK.
As a term, "overunity"   conflicts with  laws of  thermodynamics 
as well as "perpetual motion" machines, time travel,  antigravity,  and more  is just,
colliding with  physics laws fantasy, not welcomed, in my part of the forum.
Bottom line is: it is rejected by science.

Wesley
That is not true,you seem to neglect, the greek inventor Zografos , who runs his house on water and some catalyst..
This is a reason to remove you as a moderator.Sorry, but I have told you several times, that you are wrong with this...
Regards, Stefan. (admin)

Kator01

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3079 on: October 18, 2023, 01:54:14 AM »
Sergh,


concerning  Prof.Früngel I found the following document from a german University (english )
which might be of interest here


Commercial Pulsed Power Applications in Germany Markus J. Loeffler (University of Applied Sciences Gelsenkirchen)


https://www.w-hs.de/fileadmin/public/dokumente/erkunden/fachbereiche/FB2_ElaN/FB2_ElaN_ET/Laboratorien/Hochspannungstechnik/Paper-PPT-02-37-PST-02-80.pdf


Mike

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3080 on: October 18, 2023, 08:23:00 AM »
Thank you, Kator, for the link. After reading the text from the link, I understood the chronology of the publication of Frungel’s books.

Quote
In 1950, Frank Fruengel founded the company “Impulsphysik F. Fruengel”. In 1960, he published one of the first books about the utilization of capacitor discharges[5], followed in 1965 by the book “High Speed Pulse Technology”[6].
...
[5]F. Früngel: Impulstechnik – Erzeugung und Anwendung von Kondensatorentladungen (Impulse Technology – Generation and Application of Capacitor Discharges). Leipzig. Akademische Verlagsgesellschaft Geest&Portig KG, 1960, 1. Aufl., 573 pages.
[6]Frank B.A. Früngel: High Speed Pulse Technology. 2 Volumes. Academic Press New York, London, Toronto, Sydney, San Francisco. 1965.

ok, then first book I read:
[5]
Frank Fruengel Pulse technology. Generation and application of capacitor discharges. Translated from German to Russian in 1965.

About the discharges in water on pages 272 - 283. No Free Energy or Overunity declared in this book.


But second Frungel book i can not found to free download.
[6]Frungel, High Speed Pulse Technology, Academic Press Inc., 1965, reference to pp. 140-148 from Edwin V Gray patent US3890548A "Pulsed capacitor discharge electric engine"
or

Frungel, F. 1965 High Speed Pulse Technology, Vol. 2. Academic Press, New York. Reference from the article P.Graneau, N.Graneau "Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy" :

Quote
During the Second World War, Frungel (1948) measured the unusual strength of water arc explosions. He concluded that the explosions were not caused by heat and steam, and admitted freely that he was unable to explain the phenomenon.
Where can I find proof about this from the author, Frank Fruengel? Maybe the second book should have something about overunity discharges in water?If anyone has access to the second book, can you provide quotes from there that would relate to the overunity discharges in water?

dxer_87

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3081 on: October 18, 2023, 08:41:07 AM »
According to was written about the nature of machines. Its only a matter of build from existing parts to put them on move (oscillations, light, heat, pressure, freeze, other chemical reactions). And yes, pressure is a kind of energy.

What we use in nowadays mobile energy solution is mostly the last thing (one use batteries, loaded batteries). Its complicate, not cheap, not ecological except if you have spare acid eneough and poisoned steel lying around...

So this is political.

In the air near to Earth we may collect much energy from air that consists: Electro Waves and Fields, Magnetic Waves and Fields, Cold Electricity, Humidity, Ion Power, Atomic Radiation, Kapanadze, Hendershot or other mysterious coil resonances (like on 140mm or 260mm tube).

Looking closelsy that in some condition used THT devices have overunity that means more output than input if you go through from pin to pin with any antenna, mass (tin or metal constructions), and they work passively, though things like diodes, transistors and solar panels (with 1mom resistors) may be opened to hack the real energy efficiency.

Hope this was informative.

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3082 on: October 18, 2023, 12:07:41 PM »
100+!!! 100+!!! 101+!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_z-64YiDYM
And you, dear one, wind some coils like this and let’s see how it lights up for you. And no hidden battery please!
In the video, comments is disabled, the author called himself "Fakov Fakov". Fake Fakevich?  8) ;D


Search in Google video "Overunity":
https://www.google.com/search?q=overunity&tbm=vid
Quote
About 35,200 results
35,200 overunity devices! All functioning 100%!
Choose what you like and produce it, sell it all over the world!

kolbacict

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3083 on: October 18, 2023, 01:06:10 PM »
What today to hear about the announce high temperature superconductor in july ?
Were the assumptions confirmed or not ?

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3084 on: October 18, 2023, 01:19:04 PM »
That is not true,you seem to neglect, the greek inventor Zografos , who runs his house on water and some catalyst..
Regards, Stefan. (admin)
Zografos , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zografos
The page  seems - it was removed by Wikipedia?
Please specify  full name of the person  you talking about and his patent number.
Can you  provide Scientifically supported  evidence   or you can't ?
Are there any replications of Zografos today?

Talking about English language.

My comments says:

Quote
As a term, "overunity"   conflicts with  laws of  thermodynamics
// colliding with  physics laws , //
Bottom line is: it is rejected by science.

There is no me in this at all:
-my position is not  expressed here.
It is me quoting the official position  of science.
So you are punishing a person for quoting  someone else's opinion.
I see it as unfair and wrong and discriminative.
Please be  so kind and correct me if you think  I'm wrong.

Wesley
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 04:16:37 PM by stivep »

Kator01

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3085 on: October 18, 2023, 05:48:24 PM »
@Sergh,


I did some deeper research on books by Prof.Früngel ( please note: use "ü" not "ue" while searching)
I use a german search-engine. You can choose categories on the top like


             Web Bilder Produkte Nachrichten Wissenschaft


and notice then the underlined category, so you search focuses in this topic
Here I choosed Wissenschaft  and in the URL =sience appears and you are not lost in the german language :D


https://metager.de/?focus=science


When I put in Frank Früngel, the following list appeared. Its interesting al lot of document are in dthe CERN-Libary


https://metager.de/meta/meta.ger3?eingabe=Frank%20Fr%C3%BCngel&focus=science&mgv=99573a41b7c8977ef1241661eb0402f1


So I guess one needs to enlist in their system to get acess to these document


In the following link there is only a reference to Früngel, maybe that guy had access to more detailled
information


https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/government_information/intelligence_and_espionage/homebrew.military.and.espionage.electronics/servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/_gbpprorg/mil/herf/High_Voltage_Experimenters_Handbook.pdf


Up to now I have not found one single book in german language which is strange.
But I am certain I can find more...takes some time


Here in the Technical University of Munich the book is listed as printed version which does not serve your purpose.


Mike

r2fpl

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3086 on: October 19, 2023, 04:44:09 PM »
All the magician's tricks seem real until you find out the truth about how he did it and that the rabbit was already there. So is the magician a liar? Is it you who can't see what's true?
Zografos has been showing its devices for several years. Why are most of these shows on TV? The same situation was with Bendini, Don Smith, Kapanadze, Meyer, Steven Mark and many others who could be added. They are all dead and cannot defend themselves, but no one has confirmed that any of these devices are real. WHY ?
So you could say that he had nothing that we would call FE or anything else we would call it.

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3087 on: October 19, 2023, 06:08:48 PM »
In regards to  the subject of overunity.
Unfortunately the term is not recognized by science and we we need to use  wording that  matches the  science recognized formulation.

Backed up by  scientific library related  to COP is explained here:
Quote
It is known that efficiency in air-conditioning system  is >1 at the certain stages.
Quote
The COP usually exceeds 1, especially in heat pumps, because instead of just converting work to heat

And of course
I agree that this is true. My opinion is that the article  supporting it  is true.
Rest of the article is available at  the link :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance
For those who want to understand more.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2572-second-law-of-thermodynamics-broken/
Here I found the article
second-law-of-thermodynamics-broken but
-This needs to be understood that everything is in its time frame.
So nothing is done  outside of the time frame..
If we exclude time than we end up with nothing.
Wesley
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 08:42:02 PM by stivep »

stivep

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3088 on: October 22, 2023, 09:47:39 PM »

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2572-second-law-of-thermodynamics-broken/
There are cases, where the 2nd law of thermodynamics can be violated and overcome.
Title: second-law-of-thermodynamics-broken but
-This needs to be understood that everything is in its time frame.
So nothing is done  outside of the time frame..
If we exclude time than we end up with nothing.

Some explanation: nothing is done without time frame
-Means time  is always a factor  that can't be excluded.
Similar situation was pointed in Schrödinger's cat thought experiment.
 of quantum superposition
so the common to the two articles  is  that :
Experiments at the atomic scale have been carried out, showing that very small objects may exist as superpositions;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
New development in quantum word  makes us  to understand it  better.
Physics is based on models   if  the model is not  perfect and can be replaced with the  new one , till that  happens
we  collect  events in form of paradoxes  that needs to be taken to consideration.
It is my opinion and the  official text from Wikipedia  exactly word to word:
-quote:
Quote
"Maxwell's demon is a thought experiment that would hypothetically violate the second law of thermodynamics
"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_demon
Wesley.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 08:03:53 PM by stivep »

Sergh

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Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
« Reply #3089 on: October 24, 2023, 10:01:12 AM »
While searching for Frungel's book, I found some mysterious scans on Google books.
Anyone who reads English fluently, please take a look, maybe you will find something valuable. Wesley will probably be interested.

https://books.google.com/books?id=d4gFAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1946

There seems to be something about free energy at the end of the scans, from page 1946.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 01:27:30 PM by Sergh »