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Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 856374 times)

Offline stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2018, 05:12:31 PM »
I have seen, Kapanadze appeared to use only one earth ground connection (at a time).
Do you agree that he only used one earth ground connection?
In presentation made for me Tariel used only one ground wire.


In the picture from my last post Romancorp  used two grounds one was the ground
connected to heating system  pipe feeding cast iron radiator.
the second  ground was neutral wire from  the outlet.

But in my posts in regards to capacitive coupling and antenna theory.
-So  antenna  at 10th floor of the building uses counterpoise or  balancing mechanism  for the antenna to work.
-So the antenna of the car radio  uses metal body of the car as counterbalance.
-So  the  your  cellphone walkie- talkie ( hand-held, portable, two-way radio transceiver.) uses human body as counterbalance.
 at the time when your cellphone is on the table  far  from your body . the microprocessor of your fractal antenna  in side  makes SWR balancing with earth.

However  early versions of  cellphones did not use such   microprocessors and that is why they have had antennas.
Mismatching of impedance  from output  of TX often made  High End- (the RF amplifier)  to burn.
That is why  these devices  where  bulky . Due to that fact Wireless Cell Network was at that time designed to have 1 mile radius and not more than 1W output form cellphone RF transistor to an antenna.
That made Cellphones to be smaller but still heavy.( at that time)

Matching impedance  of an antenna to expected 50 Ohm ( standard)  output  of TX  by means of capacitive adjustable coupling with  counterbalance  ( ground)
is always done by LC circuitry.-where C and cpacitive reactance is leading.
Negative  effect of  this is that  if you look at Smith Chart you dealing with circuit  showing leading Capacitive Reactance means High  Voltage , low current

Summary:
In regards to Loads. Please  first  read
power factor correction capacitors :
http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_lagging_power_factor_and_leading_power_factor
In Kapanadze or any other later designs  ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT MUST BE CLOSED LOOP.
You can employ any possible means or technique but  the system will only work if that condition is present.

If you look at  waveguide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide
it does not differ from natural waveguide of the earth and ionosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%E2%80%93ionosphere_waveguide
Most of the things were made buy nature and we only  repeated it into the scale of our comfort.

By that  you may see physical one ground  only ,and that is what gives you  the headache.

Wesley

Offline stivep

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #76 on: July 02, 2018, 06:41:35 PM »
Wesley,
Please explain how antenna theory relates to Kapanadze's devices?
Antenna theory explains balancing and grounding system.
antenna must have ground  to be able to work.

The structure of antenna and Transmitter must have ground.
But in practice your  receptors do not see the  ground.
So where is the ground?

By that  we may ask  where is the second ground in Tariel device?
But that is actually very good for us- the people  assuming that  Tariel Device works.
Artificial ground
https://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2118


Wesley

Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #77 on: July 02, 2018, 07:11:09 PM »
In presentation made for me Tariel used only one ground wire.

In the picture from my last post Romancorp  used two grounds one was the ground
connected to heating system  pipe feeding cast iron radiator.
the second  ground was neutral wire from  the outlet.
...

Hi Wesley. I think that the Romancorp guy has made some interesting experiments, but I don't
know that he has ever showed anything that looks like it might be a self-runner. Have you seen
a video of his that shows what looks like it might be a self-running setup? I have only watched a
few of his videos in the past. Hard for westerners to follow since he is speaking Russian.

BTW Wesley. You seem to be assuming that everyone in these forums has little or no knowledge of physics or
electronics and radio/antenna theory etc. Hoppy is trained in electronics I believe and he has many
years of experience at the bench from what I understand, and I am also formerly trained in electronics and
electrical engineering, although I have made my actual living in another area for the past many years.

I understand well about capacitors and inductors and AC circuit theory, including power factor and power factor correction, 
and have even learned to create and use Smith charts a long time ago (I don't remember so much about them specifically any more),
and I have a fair bit of experience experimenting with different types of antenna setups in the past as well.

It is because of that knowledge and experience that I am inclined to think that using conventional analysis of these sort of setups
may only take you so far before you run into a wall, and may even lead you astray if you try to hold to that approach too rigidly.
Something seems to be going on in these setups which appears to defy conventional analysis, although I do
leave the door open that maybe there is a way to explain the operation of these setups with current understanding
and analysis approaches. 

Frank Prentice tried to explain how his setup was producing a COP >1 by hypothesizing about his
setup resonating on a similar frequency as telluric currents, as I think for patent applications you have
to give some indication that you understand what makes your 'invention' work, but some of Frank Prentice's
other comments in his patent doc indicate that the frequency he needed to tune to was very dependent
on the height of his long wire above the ground. There was not one specific frequency that made it produce
a COP > 1. For this reason I think he was probably just guessing, offering an 'explanation' that seemed to
make sense from a conventional understanding point of view. :)

This is how I see things anyway. :)

Offline apecore

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #78 on: July 02, 2018, 09:26:28 PM »
The natural tendency is for people to try to analyze and explain these setups using a conventional understanding of DC and
AC circuits and radio and EM wave theory, etc, but the problem with that approach is that conventional analysis seemingly has no way to
explain how these setups can produce a COP > 1. This of course leads many people trained in science and engineering to assume that all people
making claims of COP > 1 with electrical or mechanical devices along these lines must either be frauds or nut cases. :) However, when I look
at cases like Frank Prentice and even Kapanadze, I have to say that there could possibly really be something going on in some cases
with these type of setups that defies conventional analysis and understanding. This is why I say it is probably better to
make no definite assumptions about how it might be producing a COP > 1, because conventional analysis of these setups may well just
lead you further down the garden path. What is really going on may be something that is just not understood yet, or maybe only
just hypothesized about in some scientific circles. That's how I see it anyway. :)

Void, Hoppy and Wesley,

You may hit the nail on his head.
If it is indeed a convential engineered setup ... probably many many related types of setups would be working for many years already.
The big secret is far from conventional electronics.... just think about Tesla's or Prentice background knowledge before they start discovering and testing.
There was no conventional knowledge as we have now.......
Difficulty is not to think in modern electronics ....on the other hand people without electronic background these days won' t start testing with these kind of setups.
So all stays uncovered.....(are we not all being trolled..... from the start we went to high school?)

We all think in resonance ....LC..... but never in earth_resonance....Tesla did...and Prentice also.
Maybe we only need to focuss on the phenomenom as Tesla did and what he or Prentice drove forward to there discovery?

Unfortunatel i did not finished my electric engineering....but maybe this will not constrain me thinking in different area.
But nevertheless we still need electronics... so you guys are still needed here.... its only the way we configure... hook_up and tune our devices have to be different.

Question...where they able to work into the Mhz region those days in 1920?
Is it for that they used longer wires because the frequency was the bottleneck?

Greetings

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2018, 09:26:43 PM »
OK lets consider a Tesla coil, it probably has a L1 Primary of 800 turns, perhaps a 1Mhry inductance, but lets look at the L2 coil 2 or 3 Turns
perhaps .4uh inductance where we pulse it has any one made any experioments trying to tune the thing for optimum performance,
had any results ?

AG

Offline apecore

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #80 on: July 02, 2018, 10:04:19 PM »

........ but the strange thing here is Kapanadze has apparently claimed
that his setup can still work without an earth ground connection, but probably with poorer performance I would guess, and
Prentice also said he could connect a metal wire between the two ends of his long wire bypassing the ground hop, but it reduced
the performance, and Akula demonstrated in one of his earlier demonstration videos that his setup would still seemingly self run with
the earth ground wire not connected, but apparently with less power output capacity.


Don t forget,...  wire laying on the ground or metal parts near the ground do have ground connection due it has capacitance......which could explains why the performance is less.
The air is electrostatic...  so a conductor.
Again.... always a closed loop with earth,...  we only set things in motion....  vibrating ...  creating waves as Tesla said :)


greetings

Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #81 on: July 02, 2018, 10:14:34 PM »
Don t forget,...  wire laying on the ground or metal parts near the ground do have ground connection due it has capacitance......which could explains why the performance is less.
The air is electrostatic...  so a conductor.
Again.... always a closed loop with earth,...  we only set things in motion....  vibrating ...  creating waves as Tesla said :)
greetings

Hi apecore. Yes, this is true, but realistically the capacitance to ground of an electronic circuit
like Kapandze and Akula have used, sitting on a chair or a table is relatively small (maybe 1000pF or less as
a rough guess). We are talking about circuit setups that need to produce say at least 50 to 100 Watts to be able to self
loop and keep running. Try an experiment where you must rapidly pulse charge a capacitor of say 1000pF or less
and try to draw at least 50 Watts average power off that capacitor. I think you would need a very, very high pulse frequency to achieve
that by conventional means, if you follow me.
 

Offline apecore

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #82 on: July 02, 2018, 10:26:08 PM »
Hi apecore. Yes, this is true, but realistically the capacitance to ground of an electronic circuit
like Kapandze and Akula have used, sitting on a chair or a table is relatively small (maybe 1000pF or less as
a rough guess). We are talking about circuit setups that need to produce say at least 50 to 100 Watts to be able to self
loop and keep running. Try an experiment where you must rapidly pulse charge a capacitor of say 1000pF or less
and try to draw at least 50 Watts average power off that capacitor. I think you would need a very, very high pulse frequency to achieve
that by conventional means, if you follow me.

Or a high voltage and less puls frequenty.

P = 0.5 x C x V^2 x f



Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #83 on: July 02, 2018, 10:58:25 PM »
Here is something else to consider.
Kapanadze's 2004 demo video showed what appeared to be a very simple setup.
220V AC in connected to a power transformer and what looked like a diode full wave bridge rectifier.
A couple of devices on black heat sinks, which were probably transistors, his simple coil assembly, and 
a small tobacco can with some wires running into it from the various external components. I think maybe there was
possibly another external cap visible near the diode bridge if I remember correctly. Besides an external ground wire connection,
that was the extent of his 2004 setup.

if you look at the way the sparkgap glowed in that 2004 video demonstration, it was clear that the
sparkgap was conducting relatively low current, and it was probably running at a least a kHz and very
possibly a bit higher in the kHz range to appear the way it appears in that video. This leads me to think that the
two devices on the two black heat sinks were probably transistors used in a push pull arrangement to
drive something like a small flyback transformer inside the tobacco can. The type of glow on the
sparkgap looks very much like the glow you will see from a flyback transformer discharging through a sparkgap and
running roughly in the frequency range of about 15 to 20 kHz or thereabouts.

In some later Kapanadze demonstrations he showed a sparkgap that seem to discharge at a lot lower
frequency and it glowed white like it was conducting a lot larger current. This could possibly have been done
in these later demonstrations to try to throw people off. The 2004 demo seems more interesting to me
because Kapanadze didn't seem to be trying to hide things too much except for what was in the tobacco can.
Maybe Kapanadze does make some sort of home-made capacitor or other component which he kept hidden
in the tobacco can.

What I am trying to point out here is the sparkgap seen in the 2004 demonstration was definitely
discharging at a low current (the soft violet glow color) and looks very similar to a sparkgap driven
by a simple flyback driver in the range of 15kHz to 25 kHz or so. In other words, the sparkgap looks like it
was probably driven by a typical flyback driver or some other very similar type of HV transformer driver.

Simple circuit setup.
220V at 50 Hz in.
Probably a flyback driver or very similar driving the sparkgap at low current. The flyback transofrmer may have been in the tobacco can (it would fit with no problem).
Maybe something else hidden in the tobacco can. Maybe a homemade capacitor as some people have speculated, or some other mystery component.
An earth ground connection.

That's all there was to it. There wasn't a whole lot of room in the tobacco can for much else.
Again I understand why many think it must be fake. There just wasn't a whole lot there.
However, if it is not fake, then it boggles the mind.
Such a simple setup with the sparkgap only conducting very low current, yet it apparently self ran
and could apparently power five 1 kW light bulbs at least fairly brightly while self running.
This is why I say that if it really works it may well be working on a principle that is as yet not understood. :)


Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #84 on: July 02, 2018, 11:00:22 PM »
Or a high voltage and less puls frequenty.

P = 0.5 x C x V^2 x f

The voltage would have to be very high. Also, we are not likely really talking about 1000pF,
as only certain wires or coils had high voltage on them, The capacitance to earth from
high voltage wires or coils was probably a fair bit less I would think. :) Akula showed in that
demo I mentioned that he could light some bulbs as well as self run without an earth ground wire connected. 
If it was legit, at any rate it seems something way out of the ordinary was occurring, whatever it may be. :)
I think we should be able to at least agree on that.

Prentice seems to have taken a bit different approach back in 1923, but given the general similarities to Kapanadze's setup
it may possibly work on the same mysterious principle (if they really work).


Offline mkjekyll

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2018, 11:48:51 PM »
In Teslas system he concentrated on the B field for his wireless.  If one will notice his later systems are always inductively matched to the ground then antenna wise  a top load to capacitively couple to the air with a spherical cap.  Modern RF we have abandoned the idea of ground match coupling beyond a mismatched wire, well aside from sub communication.  Purturbing the scalar earth magnetic field and taking advantage of this on the receiving end works wonders.

Look at the Magnifying Transmitter patent and one can determine Dr Tesla was using 1/4 wave resonator for about 1mhz although the calculations are not quite accurate as the earth has a diff speed of propogation to free air.

Modulating RF as PM or FM produces the longitudinal factor which with dual sideband can deliver about 16/1 info over carrier freq. as with 4g

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #86 on: July 03, 2018, 12:51:47 AM »
The voltage would have to be very high. Also, we are not likely really talking about 1000pF,
as only certain wires or coils had high voltage on them, The capacitance to earth from
high voltage wires or coils was probably a fair bit less I would think. :) Akula showed in that
demo I mentioned that he could light some bulbs as well as self run without an earth ground wire connected. 
If it was legit, at any rate it seems something way out of the ordinary was occurring, whatever it may be. :)
I think we should be able to at least agree on that.

Prentice seems to have taken a bit different approach back in 1923, but given the general similarities to Kapanadze's setup
it may possibly work on the same mysterious principle (if they really work).
Sure the Earth makes a big difference but what about the wingdings and resonance 1/4 wave or less what do we know
about the wingdings ?
( the program keeps altering my spelling sorry about that)

AG

Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #87 on: July 03, 2018, 03:26:38 AM »
Sure the Earth makes a big difference but what about the wingdings and resonance 1/4 wave or less what do we know
about the wingdings ?
( the program keeps altering my spelling sorry about that)
AG

I personally don't know what exactly Kapanadze was doing with his special coil.
His coil assembly used in his 2004 demo was similar to the one used in his green box demo,
or it was the same one, but I don't know what is known about how it was wound, beyond people guessing at it.

Jean-Louis Naudin thought he had figured it out with his 'kapagen' experiments, but when he eventually measured the
input and output power with a suitable method it had a COP < 1. It seems whatever info Naudin got about that
setup was either wrong in one or more ways, or he was still missing something else very important from the setup.
Kapandze's 2004 setup used less than 100 Watts at the input. Naudin's Kapagen used a lot higher input power
and had COP < 1.

Something related to consider.
A quarter wave resonant antenna or quarter wave resonant tesla coil requires a ground to
to work to its max efficiency, but a half wave resonant antenna does not require a ground or ground radials.
A quarter wave antenna has much less losses if you use many radials laid on or near the ground for the ground return
because the actual ground is typically quite *lossy* to radio frequencies. If the ground is lossy (has a significant resistance 
at radio frequencies) then why did Prentice and Kapanadze get COP > 1 results when connecting to an earth ground point?
Again, for me it points to very possibly something else going on than what we typically see with radio antennas,
and what we might expect with conventional analysis. The ground is supposed to be lossy at radio frequencies, and at
lower frequencies and to DC as well. 

If half wave antennas do not require an earth ground or ground radials to work to max efficiency,
then if Kapanadze wound a half wave resonant coil would he no longer need a ground connection?
I don't know, and I don't expect anyone to actually have an answer to that except maybe Kapanadze himself. :D

Offline mkjekyll

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #88 on: July 03, 2018, 05:10:35 AM »
Wireless Power Transmission one wire and Negative Resistance   http://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/11/3/532/pdf

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #89 on: July 03, 2018, 10:21:23 PM »
This lot should keep you busy !

Don L Smith
Video 1 1994:
https://youtu.be/U9sy8gPxj3k
Video 2 1995:
https://youtu.be/6Vnxdc1EGFY
Video 3 1996:
https://youtu.be/Ak8Vyqjoz1M
Video 4 1998: https://youtu.be/AmVe92YauZA
Video 5 2001:
https://youtu.be/Xgwg82ZVaDA
Audio 1 2003:
https://tinyurl.com/y7sdmse3
Video 6 2005:
https://youtu.be/_nG_Y7pTljQ
Video 7 2005:
https://youtu.be/cAOG8GzjaLE
Video 8:
https://youtu.be/xBF8VPYGl-g