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Author Topic: Kapanadze and other FE discussion  (Read 973557 times)

Offline Void

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #675 on: December 16, 2018, 09:36:05 PM »
Belfior: Regarding D. M. Cook, yes, maybe he used a big honking battery to provide a very large
current pulse to some kind of large coil arrangement, and used that to send pieces of metal
through the roof of a building. Back in the mid to later 1800's, that might well seem like a very mysterious
effect, and might lead Cook into thinking that it could be used to make a large metal capsule fly.

Regarding Cook's free energy 'Electromagnetic Battery', Cook seemed to be convinced that it would
continue to conduct a significant current after being given an initial start pulse to get the action started.
He mentioned using iron bars or magnets up to 3 inches in diameter and 2 to 6 feet long for the iron cores.
The only thing I can think of that might be doing something unusual in that simple arrangement is maybe if soft iron
is used in iron bars of that size and with coils with many turns, maybe something to do with the magnetic domains
flipping back and forth in the soft iron bars helps to self-sustain the pulsing action, but it seems to be quite a long shot
at best. Cook's free energy invention never seems to have gone anywhere beyond his own experiments and
patent however.


Hoppy:
Yeah, I found that the video quality is too poor to try to analyze too closely for things like that.



Offline ramset

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #677 on: December 17, 2018, 06:33:44 PM »
RE  Gorchilin claims...here is a quick paper from Smudge on the Theoretical aspects of the claim ,not to say that in  Practice actual events...are to be ruled out ?
apparently the math for the theory part has huge issues .
respectfully
Chet K...ps still sorting vendors for Cook materials

and also Melnlnchenko investigation is in progress[for some reason link not transferring yet ?

Offline Smudge

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #678 on: December 17, 2018, 08:09:24 PM »
Just curious, where did (5.3) go?
If you read his paper, he substituted (5.2) into (5.1) to get (5.3) (which I didn't bother to reproduce) and then multiplied by current I to get (5.4) which I did reproduce.
Smudge

Offline Belfior

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #679 on: December 17, 2018, 10:49:36 PM »
sorry to interject ,but I was taught some time ago ,if you want to cause a brawl among men....
start talking about politics religion or sports....the fights will shortly follow.
perhaps we have enuff conflict for a while ?
not just one mans opinion......

In many cases on this forum, you need to read between the lines. Also you need to understand, that when people are arguing about stupid shit, they are not using their time trying to find free energy.

Then you just start giving points to people based on their posts. Started an argument -> one point. Started waving his hands, shouting and posting youtube videos, when somebody made an interesting question -> one point and so on and so on.

Then you watch this forum for a year and look at the stats.

Offline arhitrade

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #680 on: December 18, 2018, 08:51:22 AM »
ramset, the error of your analysis is to differentiate UL = dLI/dt. Gorchilin doesn't do that.

Offline arhitrade

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #681 on: December 18, 2018, 09:54:01 AM »
True, L depends on t, but it is not necessary to differentiate it :)
Otherwise, this leads to an error that occurred at ramset.

Offline ramset

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #682 on: December 18, 2018, 10:06:21 AM »
This is exactly why Smudges  paper  was shared , for discussion and clear understanding , I have sent him a note .EDIT TO ADD FOR REFERENCE TO THIS DISCUSSION

as already written before,
 RE  Gorchilin claims...here is a quick paper from Smudge on the Theoretical aspects of the claim ,not to say that in  Practice actual events...are to be ruled out ?
apparently the math for the theory part has huge issues .
respectfully
Chet K...ps still sorting vendors for Cook materials

and also Melnlnchenko investigation is in progress[for some reason link not transferring yet ? ... (https://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/icons/clip.gif) Making sense of Gorchilin.pdf
 ....(32.01 kB - downloaded 39 times.).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:11:05 PM by ramset »

Offline Smudge

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #683 on: December 18, 2018, 10:27:39 AM »
True, L depends on t, but it is not necessary to differentiate it :)
Otherwise, this leads to an error that occurred at ramset.
Induced voltage is proportional to rate-of-change of flux, and since flux=L*I/N it is proportional to the rate-of-change of the product L*I.  Normally L is a constant so U=-L*dI/dt is correct (the manner in which Gorchelin sums the voltages that negative sign disappears).  But when L is not constant then U=-d(L*I)/dt is the correct version to use.  Gorchelin is in error.  If you believe otherwise please explain why.
Smudge

Offline tinman

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #684 on: December 18, 2018, 11:51:31 AM »
Induced voltage is proportional to rate-of-change of flux, and since flux=L*I/N it is proportional to the rate-of-change of the product L*I.  Normally L is a constant so U=-L*dI/dt is correct (the manner in which Gorchelin sums the voltages that negative sign disappears).  But when L is not constant then U=-d(L*I)/dt is the correct version to use.  Gorchelin is in error.  If you believe otherwise please explain why.
Smudge

i dont agree with that.

Induced voltage is proportional to the rate of change of the electric field,not the magnetic field.
The magnetic field is a result/bi-product of current flow,and so voltage must exist prior to any magnetic field or magnetic flux.


Brad

Offline F6FLT

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #685 on: December 18, 2018, 12:43:20 PM »
You don't agree, Brad, but that's the way it is. The induced emf in a circuit crossed by a magnetic flux is obtained either by integrating E along the circuit or by the magnetic flux through its surface, it's a consequence of Stokes' theorem, it's a mathematical identity.
Emf = -dΦ/dt (Faraday's Law) = ∮E.dl  (E electric field = -∂A/∂t, dl a circuit element where current is induced).

If L changes, the circuit of the inductance changes, therefore ∮E.dl changes too, proof that dΦ/dt is also changing.

The formula U=-d(L*I)/dt given by Smudge is correct. See equation 8.69 here

Offline arhitrade

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #686 on: December 18, 2018, 01:57:40 PM »
Induced voltage is proportional to rate-of-change of flux, and since flux=L*I/N it is proportional to the rate-of-change of the product L*I.  Normally L is a constant so U=-L*dI/dt is correct (the manner in which Gorchelin sums the voltages that negative sign disappears).  But when L is not constant then U=-d(L*I)/dt is the correct version to use.  Gorchelin is in error.  If you believe otherwise please explain why.
Smudge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit
Pay attention to "Series RLC circuit".
I hope the topic of the error is closed.

Offline tinman

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #687 on: December 18, 2018, 03:27:00 PM »
You don't agree, Brad, but that's the way it is. The induced emf in a circuit crossed by a magnetic flux is obtained either by integrating E along the circuit or by the magnetic flux through its surface, it's a consequence of Stokes' theorem, it's a mathematical identity.
Emf = -dΦ/dt (Faraday's Law) = ∮E.dl  (E electric field = -∂A/∂t, dl a circuit element where current is induced).

If L changes, the circuit of the inductance changes, therefore ∮E.dl changes too, proof that dΦ/dt is also changing.

The formula U=-d(L*I)/dt given by Smudge is correct. See equation 8.69 here

The part i do not agree with is-Induced voltage is proportional to rate-of-change of flux,

Voltage across a coil is induced by the electric field,there need be no magnetic flux at all if the coil is open. A magnetic field only exist if a current flows through the conductor,but an EFM can exist across a coil without the flow of current,hence-no magnetic field.

So induced voltage is a result of the changing electric field,not the changing magnetic field.


Brad

Offline F6FLT

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #688 on: December 18, 2018, 04:35:30 PM »
...
Voltage across a coil is induced by the electric field,there need be no magnetic flux at all if the coil is open.

If the coil is open and there is no magnetic flux, there is no induced voltage.
I rephrase:
the induced voltage is the integral of the electric field along the circuit of the inductance and this integral is the corollary of the variation of the magnetic flux through the circuit surface. It is not even a question of physics but of pure math once the magnetic field has been defined as the curl of the vector potential A, and the electric field as E=-∂A/∂t. See the Stockes theorem applied to the magnetic field.
∮A.dl = ∫∫dS.(∇xA) (A, dl, ∇, dS being vectors)

You see the electric field on the left through the vector potential, and the magnetic field on the right in the curl of A. The two equations are strictly equivalent.  [induced electric field along the circuit]  <=> [flux of the magnetic field through the circuit surface]. One can't exist without the other.


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
« Reply #689 on: December 18, 2018, 04:51:12 PM »
bRAD IS DEAD RIGHT!  if I pulse a coil before the magnetic vortex starts explain that, or if I use a caducous wound coil the magnetics is canceled out! or if I block the magnetic field with dielectric charge Leny boys low no longer applies. Your talking conventional theory, that no longer applies here.  Ilke it or not!