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Author Topic: Brilliant concept, but will it work?  (Read 3377 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« on: April 22, 2018, 10:29:27 PM »
Hi there!


I found this video on youtube. I just love the concept - and the guy is somewhat funny :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7j6YYZ8-I


Can anyone see why it cannot work, given no leakage if the machine is filled with water?
There are seemingly no surfaces that can counterforce the area where the wheels are narrowing and shorten the buoyant tubes. Due to the straight uniform tubes, it cannot be sideways forces that prevent the wheels to decrease the buoyant part of the tubes.
The tubes have greater volume and surface area in touch with water at the farthest position than the closes position. So buoyancy would be greater on that side right?
Water pressure is the same on both sides.


This is almost as difficult to explain as how boiled spagetti is possible to suck in your mouth even if there is seemingly no directional forces pushing it in.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Online ramset

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 09:39:22 AM »
Thanks for sharing this brain twisting variable... full of possibilities . 

of course it works.....Until ?

I guess it wouldn't matter if it was a smaller leaky test bed .Or would it ?

and yes ...Mercury ?[his mention ]

he does seem a fun guy

respectfully
Chet K

 

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 10:05:36 AM »
Thanks for sharing this brain twisting variable... full of possibilities . 

of course it works.....Until ?

I guess it wouldn't matter if it was a smaller leaky test bed .Or would it ?

respectfully
Chet K
This has bugged me all night. I guess the 3D printer have some work to do quite soon.
Just make a small 20cm diameter model with ballbearings. Even if there is leakage, I can let the tapwater keep filling the tank. This is just to prove or disprove the concept. Nothing more.
I'll start the production of parts today.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 10:05:36 AM »
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Online ramset

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 11:08:52 AM »
yes
I lost some sleep too with this one

maybe he could take it to a fire dept and ask them to test run their water hoses  in the parking lot ,should fill up fast enuff to compensate for all the leaks.

those fire guys luv to play with their hoses ...and test the equipment.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 02:46:23 PM »
I thought maybe some sealed "bellows" would do the same job. I assume, since the two wheels are fixed, there is no force that will compress them more at the bottom than the top.
The pressure on their bellow surface should cancel out in both directions. What I assume, is that there is no water pressure that will try to shrink the bellows. And therefor no counterforce anywhere.
However, there is greater volume where the bellows are stretched out, and less volume where they are compressed.


An open "airway" inside the wheels allows air to flow around from bellow to bellow.


Submerging this thing under water will probably cause more buoyancy on one side than the other.


What do you think?


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 02:46:23 PM »
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Offline fritznien

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 05:11:51 PM »
i think it takes energy to expand the bellows at the bottom.all the gain is lost on reset.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 05:29:39 PM »
i think it takes energy to expand the bellows at the bottom.all the gain is lost on reset.
That crossed my mind too. On the other hand, that force is perpendiculary to rotation because the pressure outside each bellow is angular to the surface of the discs and can seemingly not force counter rotation.
Just one way to find out.
I print out bellows with some flexible filament I have, and see what happens 🙂

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 05:29:39 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 07:43:04 PM »
If one end of the tube were a solid ball fitting into a socket on the wheel and the other wheel had a ball and socket with the tube going through the ball you would only need to seal the one side,, that is the ball and socket and the sliding tube.

Just a thought,,
Yeah. That would be an approvement. I think the biggest concern is the leak around the circumference of the large disc.
If just the device could pump the water leakage back into the "tank". If that device worked, and the leak is small, it could be possible.
However, what bugs me most is that I have no clue why it shouldn't work. Thinking hard, and disturbing my day job too.
I hate puzzles like this  ;D

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 09:02:40 PM »
What about replacing the tubes with flexible air ducts.


The membrane on these are very flexible, but will they shrink in length by applying pressure to the surface, or will they just try to squeeze together without getting shorter?
I want a design that is somewhat rigid in the diameter, but flexible in length.
Putting a plastic tube that fits nicely inside these, and the leakage and squeezing problem is solved for that part. The plastic tubes can be long enough to get through and some more, just like in the video.
Then use a much larger air duct to seal space between the discs. I'm not sure how the buoyancy will work if the water is trapped inside, and rotating with the tubes.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 09:02:40 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2018, 10:04:41 PM »
Would be good if he could take some measurements around the clock/wheel
so  the displacement disparity and variables can be shown on paper

most likely a good Simulator could tell us the raw potential of this scenario
prior to losses

just for inspiration,

I absolutely believe it will show a gain...and if not ... maybe find solutions or??


a real brain twister with many possible considerations.

respectfully
Chet K

Offline magneat

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 10:21:03 PM »

Hello everybody !


as I see the device - 2 disks, located at some angle to each other.


each disk rotates on its axis.


N pipe pairs are fixed between the discs.


in each pair of pipes one slides inside the other through the ring seals (minimum - 2) with minimal friction.


from the other end these tubes are SEALANT, and fixed through the ball joints on their disks.


all pairs of pipes are connected together by flexible tubes for free flow of air - the pressure in all pipes is constant.


This design does not need side walls - it just needs to be immersed in water.


with respect.


p.s. sorry for my english - translation by Google Translate

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 10:21:03 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 11:11:09 PM »
I think the calculation for buoyancy is easy. Generally it is the volume in front vs the rear that counts. However, without the ends being inside the water, maybe the tubes aren't buoyant at all???
It should, somehow, be something that obeys conservation of energy in this device. So what is it? A "true" physicist would probably answer that question in a second, by saying that energy must be conserved.


I have twisted my mind, and will try to analyze the device this way (And hopefully get the sleep I need):
The volume that is submerged into water, is the volume that the pipes is displacing. So far so good.
However:
Since the wheels will shape a triangle, seen from above, there is greater surface area in front of the pipes than behind them. Since there is no ends to the pipe that is inside the water, the water pressure will push more on that side with the greater area - against rotation. Because the greater area is pointing towards the longest pipes, and the pressure is greater at the bottom. The correlations makes sense this far.
On the other hand, these pipes, as each of them might be more buoyant in front of them (because the front half of the pipe is lighter than the rear half) will also try to rotate WITH the wheel, in the right direction, and possibly cancel out the difference in the surface force between front and rear - I'm talking about each pipe separately.


As I write this, my printer is making parts for a device that is similar. Actually, I will make two models. One model with the bellows, and one replica of the device in the video. The drawback with these models, is that they are small with just a few grams of buoyancy. The flexible filament I use, do have resistance that will be hard to fight against. If I squeeze the material/bellow, it takes some time for it to recover into initial shape (and the first sample got destroyed due to poor print quality). The other drawback is the leakage in the other model, but that one will have much less resistance. Finding a model that have no leakage and little friction is something I'm working on.


Vidar

Online ramset

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 11:34:11 PM »
Well
your image in Post #4 seems to show not half but maybe 1/3 disparity between
up side and down side.
if we were using gravity instead of buoyancy the lift/weights [100 lb for example when "large"

potential of the wheel would be huge [fantasy land musings]

Yes open pipes but ...Hhmmm

going to have to ponder your Triangle [small side comments,hasn't sunk in yet]

Please forgive me if I post too much here,had eye surgery early this AM and can only look down for a week or two [during healing]
I appreciate the distraction and am totally smitten with all the whatifs

I promise not to make a pest of myself ,but will be doing lots of thinking


Chet

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 11:34:44 PM »
Here is the first bellow. Sloooow printing and 0.1mm layerhight did the trick.


Vidar

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Re: Brilliant concept, but will it work?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 11:40:21 PM »
No problem Chet. Post as much as you want in this thread. Everything that contribute to solve this mystery is welcome  :)

 

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