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Author Topic: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries  (Read 6460 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2018, 03:55:56 PM »

2 days ago i setup these 2 sets of 2x 2000mAH NiMh rechargeables in series, one set with magnets on top and a steel plate below them, and
a control set without any magnets or steel plate, see picture.

They are loaded with identical 5x paralleled leds which are barely glowing.

Starting voltage on the magnet powered batteries was 2.5V, and 2.514V for the control set,
now after 2 days 2.468V for the magnets powered batteries, and 2.505V for the control set.

Measuring the current via 4 different ways shows 4 different outcomes, so probably to low for proper measurements with the equipment i have.

Using my AC/DC current probe and my scope shows 0.9mA,
using a 1 Ohm precision resistor (csr) in the return line shows a noisy 4mA rms,
using my Fluke DMM at the 400mA DC range setting shows a steady 0.1mA,
using my Voltcraft analoge meter at the 5mA DC range setting shows almost no deviation, so probably also about 0.1mA.

Guess the meters show them best, so around 0.1mA.

I will leave the both sets running and monitor the voltage now and then to see what is going to happen.


Regards Itsu

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Offline conradelektro

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2018, 10:46:29 AM »

@itsu: if a circuit uses 0.1 mA it will run 20.000 hours with a 2000 mAh battery. This leads to 20.000/24 = 833 days. Considering the slow self-discharge of the 2000 mAh accumulator, it might well run a bit more than a year. And it is questionable that this has anything to do with the magnets and the steel plate.

Your test will run for a very long time and will mainly test the rate of self discharge of the two accumulators. Therefore I suggest you use red LEDs which will light up at 2.4 Volt and will consume some milliamperes. One might even need a resitor of 100 Ohm for each red LED if the red LED has a forward voltage of 1.9 Volt and 5 mA is the desired current per LED.

We want to know whether the magnet has an influence in a convenient time span. And this alleged influence should not depend on the type of LED used. (While the type of  LED used, e.g. a white LED with a forward voltage of 3.2 Volt, has a strong influence on the current consumed by this circuit.)

It is well known that a white LED can glimmer (not shine) with a very low current (e.g. 0,1 mA) and at a lower voltage than its forward voltage.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2018, 11:18:54 AM »
Hi Conrad,

thanks for your reaction.

you are right, it would take ages for those leds to turn off.

Today measurement gave 2.485V on the magnet powered leds, and 2.502V on the control, so it seems the magnet powered batteries recovered somewhat.


But i changed to red leds to speed up the process.

Without any resistor, the 5 paralleled red leds were very bright, got warm and pulled about 136mA, so i dimmed them to about 4mA by using a 180 Ohm
resistor in the supply line.

Measurements show:

magnet powered batteries 1.751V @ 3.8mA
control batteries               1.743V @ 3.9mA.


I expect the batteries voltage will climb the next days due to being drained (136mA) earlier, so will wait to they stabilize and remeasure.

By the way, the voltage measurement is across the leds, so not including the voltage drop across the 180 Ohm limiting resistor (180 x 0.0038 = 0.68V)


Itsu
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 05:31:47 PM by itsu »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2018, 11:18:54 AM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2018, 12:14:22 PM »
Hi Conrad,

thanks for your reaction.

you are right, it would take ages for those leds to turn off.

Today measurement gave 2.485V on the magnet powered leds, and 2.502V on the control, so it seems the magnet powered batteries recovered somewhat.


But i changed to red leds to speed up the process.

Without any resistor, the 5 paralleled red leds were very bright, got warm and pulled about 136mA, so i dimmed them to about 4mA by using a 180 Ohm
resistor in the supply line.

Measurements show:

magnet powered batteries 1.751V @ 3.8mA
control batteries        1.743V @ 3.9mA.


I expect the batteries voltage will climb the next days due to being drained (136mA) earlier, so will wait to they stabilize and remeasure.

By the way, the voltage measurement is across the leds, so not including the voltage drop across the 180 Ohm limiting resistor (180 x 0.0038 = 0.68V)


Itsu

Just a small question about amperage. Would you say that amps tells you how much a circuit is transforming electrical energy to another form? People always say that Tesla coils can't output any power, because the output amperage is so low. I would argue that the machine is just efficient and the amps is a need that the load will introduce. If the load wants to transform X amount of amps into heat or light and the tesla coil will not provide this, then the load is "not powered". Then if you got a Gerard Morin type of generator&motor that will mostly just use voltage (very low losses) then you can easily power that with a tesla coil.

You can get the same amount of Lux from an LED with low amps and with a regular light bulb with high amps. This does not mean the PSU is more powerful, but the LED wastes less power into heat right?


Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2018, 12:47:48 PM »

Right!   :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2018, 12:47:48 PM »
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Offline Belfior

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2018, 01:17:56 PM »
Right!   :)

I guess I just learned more today about electricity than studying for 5 years...

Offline conradelektro

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2018, 01:45:52 PM »
But i changed to red leds to speed up the process.

Without any resistor, the 5 paralleled red leds were very bright, got warm and pulled about 136mA, so i dimmed them to about 4mA by using a 180 Ohm
resistor in the supply line.

Itsu

@Itsu:

I do not want to play the clever one, but one needs a 180 Ohm resistor for each and every red LED because no LED is exactly like the other and with only one 180 Ohm resisteor in the supply line they will shine with slightly different brightness. And the current draw will be greater with four resistors.

Four 180 Ohm resistors in prallel act like one 45 Ohm resistor http://www.1728.org/resistrs.htm . So the draw will be about 16 mA.

With a draw of 4 mA the test will last about 21 days (2000/4/24 = ~ 21), with 16 mA it will be about 5 to 6 days.

Thank you for doing the test, I can't wait to hear the result. I only have disk magnets and I would have to buy four somehow identical NiMH accumulators. The costs (magnets + accumulators) would be about 30.-- Euros which I do not want to invest in magnet-steel-power.

About LEDs http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Basic_Light_Emitting_Diode_guide :

"Connecting multiple LEDs in parallel is usually a bad idea. Even LEDs of the same production series have slightly different forward voltage to forward current ratios. Some LEDs will draw more current, and some less. This leads to differences in brightness between the LEDs that could reduce the useful life."

You probably know all this, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2018, 01:45:52 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2018, 05:31:10 PM »

Conrad,

i would like to stay as close to the original setup, meaning 5 leds in parallel, so i toke only 1 resistor in the supply line.
The 5 leds are indeed shining with slightly different brightnesses, but i don't think it matters here.

I expect to see within a few weeks the result you and i expect to see, but untill then we will have to sit it out.

After a few hours stabilizing, the voltages are:
Magnet powered 1.753V
control               1.745V      at the leds.


Itsu

Offline conradelektro

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2018, 10:29:40 PM »
i would like to stay as close to the original setup, meaning 5 leds in parallel, so i toke only 1 resistor in the supply line.
The 5 leds are indeed shining with slightly different brightnesses, but i don't think it matters here.

I expect to see within a few weeks the result you and i expect to see, but untill then we will have to sit it out.

Ok, I get it.

As these things go, one could always argue that the magic ("electron pulling from steel by magnet") only happens slowly. Any "fast depletion test" would kill the magic. This is the age old problem that it is often impossible to disprove some claim. Any way, a 21 day test might be better than a 5 day test.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2018, 10:29:40 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2018, 02:36:32 PM »

After 3 days:

Magnet powered  1.674V
control                1.714V      at the leds.


Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2018, 12:48:18 PM »

Hmmm,  After  again 2 days:

Magnet powered  1.653V
control                1.642V      at the leds.

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2018, 12:48:18 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2018, 08:50:48 PM »

After  again 2 days:

Magnet powered  1.636V
control                1.620V      at the leds.

Itsu

Offline RoliK

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2018, 12:14:15 AM »
Thxs for update, RoliK

Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2018, 01:21:16 PM »

After 3 days:

Magnet powered  1.623V
control                1.603V      at the leds.

Itsu

Offline itsu

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Re: getting more energy out of AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2018, 08:42:22 PM »


After 4 days:

Magnet powered  1.605V
control                1.571V      at the leds.

Itsu

 

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