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Author Topic: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant  (Read 11114 times)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2018, 04:21:03 AM »
Hi gyulasun, yes, i did not study the program, though a brooks coil would be ideal for air coil.
Yes, stranded wire version.
Only way to know how well it will work is to try it i suppose.
The main reason I'm thinking of trying this, is to see if a larger mass of copper will yield any better charging for similar input.
And since it will be equal or lower resistance, if the efficiency is better, then it was worth it.
Though the wire insulation may or may not be helpful, we shall see.
I may just get the 10awg., since the idea is to see if more copper mass at similar coil resistance gives better performance
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2018, 12:24:33 PM »
Hi SkyWatcher,
Yes, the Brooks coil shape insures the highest L inductance for the minimum possible wire lenght to use, so this is in favor for the smaller DC resistance quest. But if someone makes such coil to differ from the ideal size ratio by some percent it does not matter much and in this respect the calculators may help to observe the needed size ratio. 
Speaking of highest L inductance, if high L is beneficial for this setup, then cored coils may also be considered, we covered this already and you did several such tests too.  I mean cores can further reduce wire length, hence DC resistance.
Okay on the awg 10 wire size, surely worth a try to see how it works.
Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #92 on: May 25, 2018, 10:42:41 PM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the reply.
Not sure either, if inductance is of most importance, this experiment will be to see if more copper mass gives better charging efficiency.
I don't have any other larger ferrite rod type cores, though i could crush up a bunch of ferrite c-core, etc. that were salvaged and mix with some glue into a tube, to make a core.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #92 on: May 25, 2018, 10:42:41 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2018, 12:43:32 AM »

Well, in general, if we increase copper mass in a coil and it involves an increase in wire length, then inductance also increases.  If we increase copper mass without increasing wire length, then inductance increases a little only, I think.  It is okay that you wish to see what other effect an increased copper mass may have.  IT would be good to use an L meter for comparison between coil inductances you have been using for such tests now or used in the last couple of weeks.

For cores you could use the ferrite rings as you already did by stacking them in a line, no need to grind or crash them and mix the powder again with glue because their permeability will be much less then originally was (you cannot press them with as high force as they do during the ferrit manufacturing process).

Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #94 on: May 26, 2018, 11:08:37 PM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the helpful reply.
Hmm, I just briefly tested a new coil/core with just about 2 layers of 18awg. magnet wire at around .1 ohms.
I tuned the circuit, by adjusting voltage input, to get similar watts input as previous 12 strand coil and i wound the wire directly onto the ferrite tube core, no gaps between wire and core or anything.
Seems to have similar charging performance and no noticeable heat anywhere, though the frequency is higher. 
Can't say it is truly comparable to the 12 strand without doing a charge/load test.

I'm going to do this, since it is not 2 full layers, I'm going to unwind enough from the other 12 strand coil, to wind 2 full layers onto the ferrite tube core, with only thin packing tape for insulation.
This should make the resistance below .1 ohms.
We shall see how it works.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #94 on: May 26, 2018, 11:08:37 PM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2018, 07:50:41 PM »
Hi all, tested that coil and i was noticing some heat in the NPN transistor and could not tune the circuit to remove the heat.
So i went back to the larger 12 strand coil/core, which now has a little less copper turns and it stays cool and all components stay cool.
Since the coil is integral with the function of this oscillator ciruit, maybe too few turns or too low of resitance does not operate the circuit properly or the transistor being used cannot handle the pulse amps and causes heat.
I still may try the 10 or 12 gauge house wire coil, because I'm curious to see how it may perform.
peace love light

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2018, 04:26:46 AM »
Hi all, I've been testing some different coils.
Found some plastic insulated wire, looks similar to speaker wire, though i think its hook up wire, looks like maybe 20-22awg. stranded copper wire.
Wrapped 3 layers directly onto the ferrite tube core.
Since the wire is built with wire side by side, I wired it series, Nikola Tesla style, from patent #US512340A.
This N. Tesla coil method, apparently raises the capacity of the coil and voltage between turns, cancelling self induction.
I'm using the no heat sink method to check if too much heat is generated in transistors and this coil has no heat issues anywhere and charging performance is good.
The coil is .5 ohms total resistance wired in series.
I will make a charge/load test with this coil, using the lithium ion battery as the charge battery again.
peace love light :)   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2018, 04:26:46 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2018, 05:47:57 PM »
Hi all, here's a pic of the latest setup being tested.
Going to do the charge/load test today, with the lithium ion battery.
peace love light

Edit: Ok, made a charge/load test and this coil is a little less efficient, though that may be because the coil resistance is more than double the other coil at .5 ohms.
It worked out to around 104% with this hook up wire coil.
Edit 2: tuned the circuit a little and making another charge/load test.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:26:57 AM by SkyWatcher123 »

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2018, 06:19:19 AM »
Hi all, the second charge/load test with the hook up wire coil came out the same, 104% or 1.04 COP.

Going to test the 12 strand coil/core again, since it now has a little less resistance from removing some turns.
peace love light


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2018, 06:19:19 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2018, 04:27:22 PM »
...
This N. Tesla coil method, apparently raises the capacity of the coil and voltage between turns, cancelling self induction.
...
The coil is .5 ohms total resistance wired in series.
...
 
Hi SkyWatcher,
Would like to return to this mail of yours, namely your "cancelling self induction" statement.   

Ii is okay that the winding method Tesla described increases winding capacitance.  However, this in itself
is not yet enough to cancel self inductance because the frequency of the input current has to be considered.

If you start to sweep the frequency of the input current from a few Hz and go higher and higher, then the XL
reactance of the self inductance of the two series windings will gradually be reduced by the increasing shunting
effect of the XC capacitive reactance of the winding capacitance.  Then there comes a single frequency where
XL=XC and this is what Tesla described as the condition that  I quote "permits a current of given frequency and
potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though
it possessed no self-induction." 

That is, if a bifilar coil that is made of say two insulated and relatively long copper or Alu foil stripes sticked to each other
and the stripes are connected in series to form the coil, will have a resonant frequency say at 92 kHz then this same coil
will behave as any other coil would at the lower than 92 kHz frequency range and will have the usual inductive reactance. 

In case of using two normal enamelled copper wire for the bifilar windings, then the resonant frequency will be much higher than my randomly chosen foil example of 82 kHz of course.
So it is possible that in your latest test with the plastic insulated dual wire connected in series as per Tesla, the resonant
frequency of that coil may be in the some hundred kHz range while the oscillator circuit frequency may be at a lower than
that frequency.  So we do not know whether there is any advantage by this kind of coil or not... sorry for noticing these. 
It is good your efficiency  numbers comes pretty close to that of the 12 strand coil.
Thanks for your efforts.
Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2018, 05:36:50 PM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the helpful reply as usual.
Yes, I thought about that also, the frequency being important with that N. Tesla style coil.
Maybe I will visit that coil method again, later at some point.

Though for now, I will continue to try and improve efficiency of this rene/aum charging circuit.

I made a charge/load test of the updated 12 strand coil/core, since it now has some turns removed from previous testing.
I also picked up a new meter, this one has the 20 amp setting capability that is properly working.
Used the lithium ion battery as charge battery again.

Input voltage to circuit in this test was 20 volts at .18 A average current.
Circuit component values were altered for this latest test.

The circuit used 6.48 watt hours and the battery gave back 7.12 watt hours.
Which works out to 1.099 COP or 109.9% efficiency.

Any ideas are welcome, that may increase efficiency further.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2018, 05:36:50 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2018, 12:44:48 AM »
....
Any ideas are welcome, that may increase efficiency further.
...
Hi SkyWatcher,

To answer your question I can only repeat myself: with a switching transistor that has lower collector emitter saturation voltage specification than the 2N3055 say the ZTX types or with a power MOSFET that has say 20-30 milliOhm drain source ON resistance.   This way your switching device will have less loss than the DC resistance loss of your coil, presently your transistor loss seems higher than that of the coil, albeit it is small enough because the body temp of the 2N3055 is at room temp for your touch if I understood you well.

 So practically you have approached the efficiency of you switching circuit pretty close  to 100%, there is room for small impovement in it, maybe not worth spending on a better switch at the circuit power level you are at (low duty cycle oscillator i.e. switch and the 0.18A average current via the switch) .
It is good that you again reached the higher than 100% charging efficiency for the 12 strand coil from which you removed some length of wire and managed to compensate it with tweeking other component values. 

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2018, 06:18:51 AM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the kind words and helpful reply.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions, i will research a transistor that might be better to try, once i make these new experiments.

It is actually a TIP3055 NPN for the main transistor and it doesn't have much of a body to it at all, half plastic and a small metal backing on it, that has no detectable heat to my finger.

The new experiments will be with this 10 awg. stranded copper THHN house wire I just picked up.
Have a 50 foot roll and it is almost 2 lbs.
It is 19 strands and should be between .05-.1 ohms for 50 feet.
peace love light :)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #103 on: May 31, 2018, 06:30:37 PM »
Hi all, was just looking at this 10awg. wire and the plastic former it came with.
Turns out, the ferrite tube core fits perfectly into the center, well with a little rubber mallet encouragement, though sure is convenient and the plastic coil former is also the exact length as the ferrite tube core.

Will be recoiling the wire at some point today and getting the core in place.
peace love light

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2018, 01:35:24 AM »
Hi all, i need to share an error.
Apparently, the previous meter was broken as suspected and the smaller and cheaper meter is also off a little, amp meter wise, because it only has 10 amp capability.

The new meter i feel is fairly accurate, as i also have a 1 milliohm current shunt for measuring higher amps accurately and it confirms the new meters accuracy.

I also used 8 data points for the discharge, checking amps and volts 8 times during discharge.
Also used 6 data points for the charging, checking only amps, as the voltage is stable from the boost converter.

Unfortunately, the charge/load test effiiciency with the new 10awg. house wire coil is only 94.7% efficient, charging the lithium ion.
I will test the 12 strand coil also and see how that compares.

Still not too bad i guess, sorry for the wrong data folks.
It's still a great charger though and who knows, maybe it can go over COP 1 somehow.
peace love light

 

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