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Author Topic: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant  (Read 11485 times)

Offline forest

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 05:11:36 PM »
I'm quite sure it could work continuously.... like similar circuit here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q6NA5N6ioU&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=rmh84E9sTase1VFw-6

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 07:55:47 PM »
Hi all, Hi forest, thanks for sharing the video, i will study that later.

I could not get the dual transistor, npn pnp circuit to oscillate with the coil i have.
However, i know i can get the sucahyo oscillator to work and it has the advantage of the shortest on time possible, because it has the pnp backwards from the typical way.
I will see how it works with the rene split negative circuit variant.
peace love light :)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2018, 01:44:39 AM »
Hi all, i was able to get the oscillator running i showed in post #27.

Im using 20 volt input at the moment, without the the led shown.

I'm testing different variables to see what effects what and added a resistor and capacitor in parallel on the PNP emitter leg.

Was able to get it oscillating by testing different transistors, using TIP3055 npn and TIP42 pnp, though a couple other combinations worked also.
peace love light :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2018, 01:44:39 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2018, 11:06:58 PM »
Hi all, here is the circuit I'm testing at the moment.

It seems to be very efficient, both transistors run cool.
I did try with the voltage doubler off a 4 strand secondary, though this seems to perform better with the 2 parallel diodes.

Plus, it is using all 12 strands for the primary of the oscillator and lowering losses further.
Let me know what you think.
peace love light

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2018, 12:48:35 AM »
Hi SkyWatcher,

This circuit must be tinkered with to make it oscillate when both transistors have a relatively low hFE values
like for the types you use. Even though their hFE values get multiplied in this Darlington connection
the resulting hFE may still be low and this is why the feedback components need the correct values
to start up oscillation. (2kOhm-100nF and 56kOhm-10nF). Especially that you use a 2 kOhm resistor
in the emitter which you found needed to reduce overall input current, its presence reduces the AC gain,
this is why a capacitor is needed in parallel with it. 
The voltage doubler is useful when the resulting supply voltage to the transistor and the primary coil is less
than the voltage of a battery to be charged as was the case for your last week circuit, this was the main reason
I suggested. (It is not good to pulse charge a battery with much higher voltage spikes than the actual battery voltage.)
I assume you find this circuit at least as efficient as the one you tested last week with the tv transistor?  To compare them,
similar input voltage and current values ought to be considered for both.
Good job, keep it up.

Gyula

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2018, 12:48:35 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2018, 02:40:41 AM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the reply.
Yes tinkered is the word, took me a bit of tweaking to get it running well and with a solid tone heard from the coil.

I tested the charge transfer efficiency on the circuit just recently posted, it is around 74%.
That i think is one of highest percentages so far, the rest were probably in the 60% range.
 
Meaning, i discharged battery with a known watt hour load, then charged it with circuit back up to the voltage it was previously charged to, which is full charge.
Comparing the total watt hours out from the boost converter.
Interesting i think, considering these batteries supposedly have only a 50% charge transfer efficiency.

I rewired the circuit again and will now test the same circuit, with 8 strand primary, 4 strand secondary and using the voltage doubler.
peace love light :)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2018, 07:51:29 AM »
Hi all, I know I'm posting alot of circuits, just trying to see what works the best.
This latest circuit, is the rene split negative, with the sucahyo oscillator.
It is performing even better than the previous circuit, it also has a very short pulse on time, due to the reversed PNP transistor.
This is a good one to try.
peace love light ;D

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2018, 07:51:29 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2018, 12:47:56 AM »
Hi SkyWatcher,

Well, the importance of the duty cycle i.e. the ON time of the switch nicely manifests in this circuit.
The lower the ON time the less loss occurs in the coil as was explained in Verpies post. IT is good you
experience this.
You could explore this better with a variable pulse width and variable frequency generator of low
power consumption like a CMOS 555 timer (LMC555 or TLC555 etc).  The output of such generator
can directly drive the base of your single tv transistor via a few kOhm resistor.
You surely have seen 555 type timer circuits with variable duty and frequency controls, here is such:
https://teslasforsustainablesociety.wordpress.com/2012/11/page/5/  and scroll down to the 2nd schema
under the Astable Frequencies Chart.  5V is already enough for a 555 and it could be obtained from your
main DC supply via a series 15V Zener diode in the positive rail of the 555 to drop the 20V to 5V or so.

If this reversed pnp transistor "trick" provides a very short ON time (I have no problem with this), and the
duty cycle is indeed around 1% or so, then the 555 timer may not bring much more improvement, perhaps
it could give more flexibility with its variable frquency output too (besides the low duty cycle possibility).

All I am saying is that with such pulse generator you do not depend on the limited adjustability of blocking
oscillators or similar circuits for frequency and duty cycle you already showed:  you could have even a single
MOSFET switch driven by such generator and flexibility to choose how long the input current is allowed to flow
into the coil.  I think these aspects can lead to have the best results obtainable with components at hand.

Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2018, 05:26:50 AM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the positive reply and good information.
At some point i may test what you suggest also, as i have built 555 timer circuits with mosfets previously, just keeping it more simple for the moment.
Though yes, an experimenter showed his oscope data on the net and it was around the 1% duty cycle at all frequencies.

I also have just realized my multimeter may have been malfunctioning.
I noticed the amperage at the 20 amp setting fluctuating and pushed down on the meter lead going into the meter and it lowered by around 100 milliamps and then stayed steady.

That problem will not effect this type of circuit as far as the total power efficiency of the circuit, compared to what is actually usable through the oscillator.
However, it does place into question, the charge transfer efficiency data.
If it was showing falsely higher on the last tests and for that matter, all previous testing, then with the rene/aum circuit, the true charge transfer efficiency into the battery is much higher.
After i finish this charge/load test with this circuit, i will retest the other circuit, just to compare and get more accurate data.
I think a new meter is called for soon.
peace love light

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2018, 05:26:50 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2018, 03:24:04 PM »
Hi SkyWatcher,

It is good you noticed the multimeter issue, we always have to question our own measurements and double
or triple check every measured result. 
Would like to show you member Groundloop's 555 timer circuit, it is a little bit different from the circuit shown in
the link I referred to yesterday:
 http://overunity.com/8411/steorn-demo-live-stream-in-dublin-december-15th-10-am/msg243175/topicseen/#msg243175

He used Pin 7 for driving a MOSFET while normally it is Pin 3 which is defined as the 'output' for a 555 timer but that is
also ok.  His 555 chip is pin compatible with the types I listed as CMOS types yesterday. 
Of course you can use your own 555 circuit you mentioned, no problem.   8)

Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2018, 06:04:42 PM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for sharing.
It is not clear to me, what components of groundloops circuit, are for adjusting the duty cycle and frequency.
Do you think that circuit with a mosfet can outperform this 1% duty cycle circuit I'm now using?
I have the normal 555 timer on hand, so i can try it with that and many salvaged mosfets i can choose from.

I finished the charge/load test, the efficiency is higher, around 88% charge transfer efficiency, though i'm sure its +or- a couple precent accuracy with this meter connection, new meter needed.
I'm not sure what the claimed charging efficiency is for 12 volt tractor batteries, though I'm thinking this result is good so far.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2018, 06:04:42 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2018, 11:38:40 PM »
I edited Groundloop's drawing, see attachment.  He indicated two 200 kOhm potmeters as J3 and J4 male 3 pin connectors
and I included both in the upper right corner again together with the potmeter connections and which controls frequency and which controls duty cycle.  Of course you can use other than 200 kOhm potmeters, say 100 kOhm etc. Of course the 1 - 2 hundred kOhm values insure the higher range frequency coverage versus say a 10 or 22 kOhm , the same reasoning is valid for the duty cycle adjust potmeter where the resolution is at stake.

Whether this circuit outperforms the 1% duty cycle circuit you have just built: I do not know.  It depends on:
1) whether the MOSFET has less voltage drop across its ON resistance than the C-E saturation voltage across your present bipolar transistor
2) using variable frequency pulses (together with variable duty at any set frequency) the coil + core may operate at a more optimum frequency than the present fixed frequency circuit.  Mainly it is the core characteristics that define this: what frequency range the manufacturer assigned to those cores etc.   

To estimate MOSFET loss, let's say your type has 0.1 Ohm ON resistance and the drain current is say 200 mA, then the voltage drop is 20 mV and confront this with your bipolar power transistor saturation voltage, say at least 120 - 150 mV at 200 mA collector current, see also data sheets I referred to in my earlier posts on your transistor types, with some comments too on possible dissipation due to actual duty cycle. 
OF course there are better MOSFET types that have say 0.065 Ohm ON resistance (and 250V breakdown voltage) so the voltage drop would be only 13 mV at 200 mA drain current. This involves a 10V gate source control voltage so the 555 needs at least 10 V supply voltage to provide this.  for instance https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/rohm-semiconductor/RCX511N25/RCX511N25-ND/5042492

I am not familiar with charging efficiencies for the different types of batteries, perhaps you could ask this at the other forum (energaticforum.com) maybe someone cares to answer it.

Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2018, 07:53:07 AM »
Hi gyulasun, thanks for the clarifying circuit drawing, i will try the standard 555 timer with adjustable duty cycle at some point soon.

I finished another charge/load test, this time with the rene/aum circuit.
The efficiency was higher for this circuit, at slightly higher 33 volt input, at 95.7% charge transfer efficiency +or- 1-2% I'm sure.
Am going to try 40 volt input, for a new test using this rene/aum circuit and see if efficiency increases or lowers, will probably have to adjust component values to keep similar watt input draw.
peace love light

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2018, 12:00:27 AM »
Hi all, so i verified that my amp meter in these latest tests is accurate, i used a 1 ohm resistor (voltage drop over resistor, divided by resistor value) in-line with the boost converter output, to verify the amperage.
Currently testing the charge transfer efficiency of the rene/aum circuit at 40 volt input.
peace love light :)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Rene/Meissner EMF Higher Voltage Charger Variant
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2018, 07:32:07 AM »
Hi all, The test finished at the 40 volt input, load test efficiency is 93.5 percent.
I think even the lower 33 volt input test was probably very similar in load test efficiency.

I do wonder what the load test efficiency would be, if just using the flyback recovery to charge the battery.
Think i will try that, out of curiosity, will test at 12 volts for first test.
peace love light

 

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