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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 101987 times)

Offline shylo

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1350 on: November 01, 2018, 12:14:27 AM »
Mechanical switching can get very complicated ,I've tried

Electronic is the way to go if you have the knowledge, which sadly I don't.
Using the reverse fields is part of the solution I believe
Like you say I don't golf, fish, hunt, take trips, I enjoy tinkering to each his own.
Thanks for sharing and good luck
artv

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Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1351 on: November 05, 2018, 02:56:40 PM »
Attached are two pictures.
The first shows the EMF waveform in a conventional generator with a North and South magnet alternately passing a coil.
The second shows a scope shot of the EMF (loaded), from a 600T test coil, about 5 slots wide placed inside the stator.
The main difference between waveform's, is the presence of signal during the inter-magnet period.

In the conventional generator, the signal during this period drops to almost zero however, in the DZ style generator, this period is occupied by the pulsed waveform, although the stator coils in registration with the test coil are not energized.

The only source of pulsing during this period is from the coils creating N & S poles, out of registration (up to 90 degrees) , see third picture that show the current on the coils at 90 degrees.The current clamp was just applied over the coil loops to show the relative time of current, so this is not a calibrated measurement of current.
I have not shown this, but placing the clamp over the coils in registration, shows there is no current on these coils during this period.
This reduces the magnitude of change, of the composite 60Hz waveform, resulting in reduced induction.
Each pole is 7 coils wide so the inter pole gap is 8 coils.

For this test coil there is a huge airgap, so its not clear why this flux is wanting to cross the gap. I also removed the coil core and repeated the test and it was the same.

This requires further investigation to understand why this is happening.     
L192

Offline Jeg

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1352 on: November 05, 2018, 03:49:02 PM »
Hi. Just a small demo of the TTU v.1. Everything is ready for the funny part which is the programming. :)

30 primaries and 6 secondaries.
25 steps per half cycle right now. No limit in stepping. (The more the stepping the less the input current). Variable output frequency and input current. Variable input frequency.
Square wave output.
2 X PSU inputs for 24V, 12V, and 5V supplying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6xv7qhcdTM&feature=youtu.be

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1352 on: November 05, 2018, 03:49:02 PM »
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Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1353 on: November 05, 2018, 04:11:19 PM »
Hi. Just a small demo of the TTU v.1. Everything is ready for the funny part which is the programming. :)

30 primaries and 6 secondaries.
25 steps per half cycle right now. No limit in stepping. (The more the stepping the less the input current). Variable output frequency and input current. Variable input frequency.
Square wave output.
2 X PSU inputs for 24V, 12V, and 5V supplying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6xv7qhcdTM&feature=youtu.be
Hi Jeg,

Substantial build and you stuck with the alternative design, respect for that!
This should have the advantage of keeping the flux in the stator, until in registration with the rotor.

Regards
L192

Offline Jeg

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1354 on: November 05, 2018, 05:42:48 PM »
Thanks L192.
Device has designed with no intention of using internal fixed coil. In the video i take the output through 6 of the coils, all in parallel. But I can also use the primaries as secondaries the same time. In general many options for testing. I use low side and high side switches some of them with back to back mosfets as it has been discussed before some pages.
Overlapping pulses at the one third of the pulse.
15 coils driven as CW and 15 coils as CCW.
I have already used between 500 and 10 steps per half cycle. As I said the more the steps the less the input current.

Regards
 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1354 on: November 05, 2018, 05:42:48 PM »
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Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1355 on: November 06, 2018, 02:23:46 PM »
I adjusted the proportions of my FEMM model to more accurately represent my stator.
Driving the 2 x 7 coils at 1.5A average (this would be a much higher pulse current) each, brings the stator up to 1.5T and the start of saturation for M15 steel.

I modeled a 0 deg and a 90 deg case (note: coils relative to rotor). Easier to fix the coils and move the rotor. In the 90 deg case you can see that there is no flux through the rotor, only a very low air coupled flux (0.045T) through the side of the rotor.

Also attached, shot of coil composite coil current (dark Blue) & output EMF (loaded). Used a large current sensor around the coil cables.

Further measurement shows that there is a primary power supply current draw that is coincident with this period but does not show up coincident with the composite coil current.
I will start working through the individual bridges to determine which ones are responsible for this.
 

L192
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 09:19:17 PM by listener192 »

Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1356 on: November 08, 2018, 09:34:14 PM »
Attached is a slightly improved waveform, more symmetrical which produces a fairly good sine when filtered.
This was achieved by fine  adjustments in code delays. I achieve about 150W maximum output with this waveform but for about 450W DC input, so pretty inefficient.
A vast amount of power is being dissipated as coil heat.  You can see from the voltage and current waveforms that the 60Hz wave front is reasonable well formed.

I checked the coil currents for those in registration with the rotor and those at 90 degrees to the rotor. Interestingly, I found both to be almost identical in amplitude, not what I was expecting, as the coils not in registration should be of lower inductance due to lack of the rotor flux coupling.

This implying that a varying flux is established in the stator that is fairly uniform and that the rotor does not offer an appreciably lower reluctance path, as far as this flux is concerned.In an AC  generator with a DC energized rotor, there is a point coupling of flux onto the stator teeth in registration , it is a single flux that does not compete with any other flux (ignoring lenz for the moment).

The  flux spreads out around the stator in both directions and is at right angles to all of the stator coils, only where the rotor flux couples with the stator teeth, are those coils subjected to a changing flux  that produces induction.

Is this flux totally uniform or is there something happening in the direction of rotation along the stator?

Well yes there is and this is normally referred to as armature reaction, see attached diagram.

Note how the flux crossing point from rotor to stator is skewed in the air gap, the lines of flux trail behind the turning rotor.

In an AC generator, the effect of armature reaction depends on the power factor i.e the phase relationship between the terminal voltage and armature current. Reactive power (lagging) is the magnetic field energy, so if the generator supplies a lagging load, this implies that it is supplying magnetic energy to the load. Since this power comes from excitation of the rotor, the net reactive power gets reduced in the generator. Hence, the armature reaction is demagnetizing.

Similarly, the armature reaction has magnetizing effect when the generator supplies a leading load (as leading load takes the leading VAR) and in return gives lagging VAR (magnetic energy) to the generator.

As in this case both armature flux and rotor flux lead, induced emf E by 90o, it can be said, rotor flux and armature flux are in the same direction. Hence, the resultant flux is simply arithmetic sum of rotor flux and armature flux.

In case of a purely resistive load, the armature reaction is cross magnetizing only.

Now, how much of the above is reproduced  in the DZ?

L192
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 03:52:17 AM by listener192 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1356 on: November 08, 2018, 09:34:14 PM »
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Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1357 on: November 09, 2018, 02:08:27 PM »
Simple answer to the coil current issue.

As I am running the coils in series albeit each coil is also in parallel with an opposite coil, of course the current is shared, so the coils not in registration do not contribute to output but have limited inductance and their resistance will consume power.
Compare this to a generator with rotating flux source and you find that it is similar, with several stator coils in series forming a distributed winding (to produce a better sine). So some of these coils will be out of registration and will only have limited inductance and losses due to resistance.

 L192

Offline listener192

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1358 on: November 11, 2018, 08:22:45 PM »
On Saturday, I discovered I had a few shorted turns on my rotor coils. I removed all wire and modified the rotor so I could wind some additional turns.
I have rewound with 0.8mm wire but still need to add some more turns to get the 230V operation I desire.

I achieve about 165V RMS with what I have wound on so far, but decided to try a load first before winding more turns on.
Increasing the load now results in step increases in output power, where before there was a maximum load achieved then further increases would result in a decrease in output power.

No magic break through however, the shorted turns were certainly impeding performance.
The 0.8mm wire is a slightly heavier gauge than the wire I removed and I see that has helped reduce the IR loss a bit. That caused me to ponder on the gauge that Pierre used, which in the first video is shown as 20AWG which is close to 0.8mm however,  Pierre's wire is quiet stiff and supports the line outlets. On that basis, I think the gauge must be closer to 1mm or 18AWG, which will make a significant difference to the current versus volt drop on the rotor windings.

For 700ft wire length the 18 AWG wire resistance would be 4.799 ohms instead of 7.109 ohms for 20AWG.


 L192

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1358 on: November 11, 2018, 08:22:45 PM »
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