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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 433559 times)

d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #660 on: April 26, 2018, 11:03:45 AM »
right now there's these RFID antenna that are widely produced and can be like 10 cents each...

RFID antenna; 125kHz; 50x50x3mm; 790uH


or like in 20 pcs sets from ebay for 8.92...



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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #661 on: April 26, 2018, 10:33:43 PM »
@gotoluc
30 pole, 5 pitch, suggested pairing...


would run you know like a Harley... stochastic engine something :)


Or maybe just 2 pairs...

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cheors

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #662 on: April 26, 2018, 11:09:05 PM »
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #663 on: April 27, 2018, 12:12:32 AM »
Quote from: cheors on April 26, 2018, 11:09:05 PM
We can probably remove 36 transistors and drive relays directly with Arduino outputs:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/8-Canaux-5V-Relais-Module-High-Low-Level-Trigger-avec-Isolation-Optocoupleur/253428066457?hash=item3b017d6899:g:K38AAOSwhilaaYup
Yes there's lots of those; even at newegg, amazon, ... I found one relay module was 16 in a plexiglass box for like $24.
can even get solid-state-relay versions...(err nevermind SSR; too leaky; too high voltage requirement)
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gotoluc

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #664 on: April 27, 2018, 02:02:59 AM »
Quote from: d3x0r on April 26, 2018, 10:33:43 PM
@gotoluc
30 pole, 5 pitch, suggested pairing...


would run you know like a Harley... stochastic engine something :)


Or maybe just 2 pairs...

Interesting d3x0r

Thanks for sharing

Luc

BTW, today I took all my stator coils out and reinstalled them to a 5 slot space (pitch) instead of 6 and when I was done, now the windings look exactly like Pierre's stator.
I must of also had an error in the winding sequence since it is a drastic difference. I'm hopping this solves the low output issue.
I have no idea how I had the coil sequence before but now I feel confident it's done right seeing it looks like Pierre's.
Pictures below is, first, my Stator windings before, then Pierre's Stator windings, then my rewound Stator. Notice how the windings now curl.
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #665 on: April 27, 2018, 02:19:11 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on April 27, 2018, 02:02:59 AM
Interesting d3x0r

Thanks for sharing

Luc

BTW, today I took all my stator coils out and reinstalled them to a 5 slot space (pitch) instead of 6 and when I was done, now the windings look exactly like Pierre's stator.
I must of also had an error in the winding sequence since it is a drastic difference. I'm hopping this solves the low output issue.
I have no idea how I had the coil sequence before but now I feel confident it's done right seeing it looks like Pierre's.
Pictures below is, first, my Stator windings before, then Pierre's Stator windings, then my rewound Stator. Notice how the windings now curl.


Nice :)
The first 25-ish windings, they are winding from on top of another coil, to an empty slot.  (acutlaly the first 5 were empty slot to empty-slot... )   When you get to the one that ends in the first slot, then you're then winding on top of a coil and on top of a coil - shouldn't cause any notable difference.  If you could have had them all preassembled you could have stacked them such that the last 4/5 are behind the first coils...

Although I doubt it results in any meaningful effect on the magnetic field produced :) 
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #666 on: April 27, 2018, 02:47:31 AM »
(added 30-4 sketch in previous)
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pmgr

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #667 on: April 27, 2018, 06:32:20 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on April 27, 2018, 02:02:59 AM
Interesting d3x0r

Thanks for sharing

Luc

BTW, today I took all my stator coils out and reinstalled them to a 5 slot space (pitch) instead of 6 and when I was done, now the windings look exactly like Pierre's stator.
I must of also had an error in the winding sequence since it is a drastic difference. I'm hopping this solves the low output issue.
I have no idea how I had the coil sequence before but now I feel confident it's done right seeing it looks like Pierre's.
Pictures below is, first, my Stator windings before, then Pierre's Stator windings, then my rewound Stator. Notice how the windings now curl.
Hi Luc, good to see you are still working on the setup! Been busy but hope to get in touch over the weekend.

While you have the stator out, make sure to measure each winding and check its resistance to make sure the coils are not shorted anywhere.

Also, if you have time, take another measurement of the inductance with the rotor in so we can see if it is different from the old measurement you took.

Lastly, verify that you have the start of the winding and end of the winding labeled as such so you won't make a mistake when you hook them up.

PmgR
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #668 on: April 27, 2018, 10:27:47 AM »

There's low RPM generators with neodymium magnets....

Anyone wanna do some math? 

https://www.quora.com/Are-electromagnets-stronger-than-the-same-volume-of-N52-neodymium-magnets

Quote
Permanent magnets can develop no more than 1.2T in a highly permeable magnetic circuit.
Electromagnets routinely can produce 1.5 to 2T in the same circuit, and are capable of more if driven harder and with ample cooling.

Another similar question...

B=μ0 * core permeability * N * I/ (slot height),

N=(16?20?) turns
I = ?  What is the resistance of these coils? 
to get an order of magnitude for the field. Our real field is going to be smaller.

Quote
I get ~10-3 T or 10 Gauss. So it's pretty much hopeless.. Permanent magnets are way too strong.

I think he discounted the core permeability though... and was calculating for a very small magnet, whereas these are very large coils.

----------
Having problems finding pre-compared electromagets vs neodymium magnet strength...

Although from the rough information I think probably the field strengths are approximately the same as or greater than equivalent magnets rotating instead.
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T-1000

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #669 on: April 27, 2018, 11:55:40 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on April 27, 2018, 02:02:59 AM
Interesting d3x0r

Thanks for sharing

Luc

BTW, today I took all my stator coils out and reinstalled them to a 5 slot space (pitch) instead of 6 and when I was done, now the windings look exactly like Pierre's stator.

Nice remake!

As a side note due 30 pole stator you will need workarounds due the way Pierre was driving his coils.
In his setup he had 36 coils with 5 coils spacing and 3 pole (120 degrees) switching with a group space of  6+6 coils for each pole. And 4 coils in series for single polarity.
In your case 30 / 6 = 5+5 coils per group which leave 3 coils in series for single polarity. And the 5 coils spacing need reducing to 4 coils spacing. This will result weaker poles but same arrangement.

Cheers!
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #670 on: April 27, 2018, 12:25:43 PM »
Quote from: T-1000 on April 27, 2018, 11:55:40 AM
And 4 coils in series for single polarity.

Cheers!


Please provide link to information confirming that suggestion...?  I saw nothing other than the translation error 'coils driven in series' which is more like 'coils driven in a sequence' or 'coils driven serially' even which is kinda like 'series' but entirely not.



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T-1000

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #671 on: April 27, 2018, 12:29:02 PM »
Quote from: d3x0r on April 27, 2018, 12:25:43 PM

Please provide link to information confirming that suggestion...?  I saw nothing other than the translation error 'coils driven in series' which is more like 'coils driven in a sequence' or 'coils driven serially' even which is kinda like 'series' but entirely not.
In Piere's video number 5 with drawing he was explaining how he was making poles of each coil group. Not clear enough explanation for everyone but it did make sense when he was attempting to explain space between 2 opposite poles. and that was 4 coils in series instead of 6 to solve his problem.
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #672 on: April 27, 2018, 12:39:05 PM »
Quote from: T-1000 on April 27, 2018, 12:29:02 PM
In Piere's video number 5 with drawing he was explaining how he was making poles of each coil group. Not clear enough explanation for everyone but it did make sense when he was attempting to explain space between 2 opposite poles. and that was 4 coils in series instead of 6 to solve his problem.
Jeg posted a pic here
is that from the video?

or slightly earlier 'to solve the problem I will isolate each magnetic field by making 4 pole instead of 6' which doesn't imply....

And he could be infering that the lines inside the inductor indications are the span of that coil's field... not that all the coils in all those are on...
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #673 on: April 27, 2018, 01:19:24 PM »
should step 2 relays on at a time - total 20 relays.
left 1 right 2
left 2 right 3 etc...


top and bottom shoudl be shorted too..


Nope; that won't work... it'll short dead across when 2+3 are on for instance...


(Image deleted; no bueno)
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d3x0r

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Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #674 on: April 27, 2018, 02:10:36 PM »



Maybe 2 pole, with series, maintaining some separation?  3 or 4 in series prevents dead-shorts...
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