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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 184987 times)

Offline seaad

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Some stuff from http://www.energeticforum.com 2017 
(http://www.energeticforum.com/299241-post2322.html), (http://www.energeticforum.com/299247-post2325.html)

Table comparing the features of transformers, generators, and Figuera generator pic1:

A Transformer have FLUX LINKING as the type of induction.
A generator have FLUX CUTTING as the type of induction

Generator: different types
Its no problem to see from my second picture of a generator (type A), that this represent FLUX CUTTING. The bunch of wires really cuts the field -lines when the coil rotates.

But with picture three ( type B) it is more difficult to see flux cutting. Anyhow to me. Its more of FLUX LINKING because the rotating maget now close to the stator core acts as a coil in a transformer divided with a small air gap, increasing its magnetic power And then decreasing the same. The magnetic field-lines goes thru the core as in a normal transformer.
How to interpret that as FLUX CUTTING? (DZ gen)

Regards / Arne

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Offline onielsen

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Sorry this is nonsense. If it were true, you would see the same behaviour in the distributed windings of induction motors, which you don’t. If you complete a build yourself and make measurements with a flux probe you will see they just add. The Hyun Chung transformer works on the principle off induction due to the travelling wave and induction due to the pulsating component from the 3 phases.Read the patent again.


Regards


L192
Hi L192,
From the Hyun Chung patent application:
Quote
[0014]
With such arrangement, the alternating field and traveling magnetic field, which are set up by the alternating magnetic flux produced by an energizing current flowing in the primary winding, induce electromotive forces generated by these fields to the secondary winding. The electromotive force induced into the secondary winding by the alternating field is substantially equal to the electric power which is supplied to the primary winding in order to flow an energizing current and from which some losses such as iron loss and copper loss are deducted. Thus, the electromotive forces (a force generated by the alternating field plus one generated by the traveling magnetic field), which are greater than the power supplied to the primary winding, are induced to the secondary winding so that self-excitation occurs. 
The bold lines could sound like claiming overunity even though this isn't put in the claims. Of course it is a mixture of EMF and power so who knows what he meant?! Then in paragraph 16:
Quote
[0016]
If at least part of the electromotive forces induced in the secondary winding is provided to the primary winding, this enables self-excitation without a supply of electric energy from outside except the primary stage of starting-up.

Coherent fields
In a coil it is clearly seen that the field is coherent as doubling the turns number quadruples the stored energy at the same current. Doubling the turns number quadruples the inductance of the coil. The energy stored in an inductor is (1/2)LI2. Thus quadrupling the inductance L at the same current I quadruples the stored energy.

If on the other hand the turns number is doubled by just putting two similar coils in series without having their magnetic fields share the same space in the same direction the inductance is just added up (doubled). Thus the stored energy is also only doubled.
The trick is to input the energy as separate waves and then mix the waves into a single coherent wave before extracting the energy. Several free energy devices looks like using this principle which W.B. Smith calls 'The Principle of Inversion.'

Energy in an inductor: https://wiki2.org/en/Inductor#Stored_energy
Inductance formulas: https://wiki2.org/en/Inductor#Inductance_formulas

Regards
Ole

Offline pedro1

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When making generator you move magnetic field across generator windings. This is constant field moving through windings. In Solid State Alternator (SSA - I call it) you move magnetic field by multiple overlapping windings arrangement. So please forget BEMF recovery/pulsing/etc for a moment and focus on making same magnetic field movement for induction. And do not overthink it because Faraday's law of induction is simple as that.

je ne pourrait dire mieux que T-1000  tout est la ,cesser de vous compliquer la vie avec des champs qui se croise haute fréquence et toute les autre théorie c'est tellement simple que cela va vous sauter dans les yeux REGARDER ET RÉFLÉCHISSER A UN GÉNÉRATEUR ,TOUTE EST LA et tenté de réplique un générateur avec ce que je vous ait montrez avec la rotation magnétique vous avez un des gros morceau du secret du dz générateur il ne suffit de trouvez le reste des petits détail qui reste et réfléchissez 36 bobine peuvent être relier avec une autre et vous pouvez isoler chaque bobine avec un relais (petit input)vous serez surpris par la simplicité du deuxième dz générateur qui est en cours de fabrication (un monstre de bobine et de fer )compliquer et simple a la fois .alors penser simple et ne vous éloigner pas trop de ses bases très simple.
Pierre C.

En.
I could not say it any better than T-1000!... everything is there, stop complicating your life with fields that cross high frequency and all the other theory. It's so simple that it will jump in your face. LOOK AND REFLECT ON A GENERATOR, EVERYTHING IS THERE. Attempt to replicate a generator with what I have showed you with magnetic rotation. You have one of the big part of the secret of the  DZ Generator. All that's left is to find the rest of the small details and reflect 36 coils can be connected with another and you can isolate each coil with a relay (small input) you will be surprised by the simplicity of the second dz generator that is being manufactured (a monster of coil and iron) complicate and simple at the same time. So think simple and don't drift away from its simple base.
Pierre C.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 02:27:41 AM by gotoluc »

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Offline jerdee

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je ne pourrait dire mieux que T-1000  tout est la ,cesser de vous compliquer la vie avec des champs qui se croise haute fréquence et toute les autre théorie c'est tellement simple que cela va vous sauter dans les yeux REGARDER ET RÉFLÉCHISSER A UN GÉNÉRATEUR ,TOUTE EST LA et tenté de réplique un générateur avec ce que je vous ait montrez avec la rotation magnétique vous avez un des gros morceau du secret du dz générateur il ne suffit de trouvez le reste des petits détail qui reste et réfléchissez 36 bobine peuvent être relier avec une autre et vous pouvez isoler chaque bobine avec un relais (petit input)vous serez surpris par la simplicité du deuxième dz générateur qui est en cours de fabrication (un monstre de bobine et de fer )compliquer et simple a la fois .alors penser simple et ne vous éloigner pas trop de ses bases très simple.
Pierre C.

En.
I could not say it any better than T-1000!... everything is there, stop complicating your life with fields that cross high frequency and all the other theory. It's so simple that it will jump in your face. LOOK AND REFLECT ON A GENERATOR, EVERYTHING IS THERE. Attempt to replicate a generator with what I have showed you with magnetic rotation. You have one of the big part of the secret of the  DZ Generator. All that's left is to find the rest of the small details and reflect 36 coils can be connected with another and you can isolate each coil with a relay (small input) you will be surprised by the simplicity of the second dz generator that is being manufactured (a monster of coil and iron) complicate and simple at the same time. So think simple and don't drift away from its simple base.
Pierre C.


Thank you Pierre. I can completely see why you are holding out on a much better prototype.  There are better ways to rotate the field. once you understand the concept of how to control it.  I know see how you can isolate each coil, and collect reflected signals together.  Much better signal field for flux cutting.  Thank you for your hard work and dedication.  Very much appreciate your endeavors.


Jerdee

Offline konehead

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Hi L192
Why would I bother with DZ generator is obvious
It loops
Plus video shows 170W in 1600w out
Duh
Who would not want to bother with it?
Rotovertor  motor has overlapping winds in staor why I mentioned it and virtual phase is overunity in that rotating transformer phase
Could have similarities to DZ generator functioning

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Offline r2fpl

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This is how the field rotates. It consists of 6 fields. They spin together but are electrically separated. This is obvious but not everyone understands it.

Offline konehead

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Salut Pierre
Ma conjecture est la simplicité que nous manquons est que si vous imaginez les vents induits électromagnétiques de rotor verrouillé comme aimant permanent, il incitera la puissance dans tous les vents de stator rotatifs qui ne sont pas pulsés.
Peut-être que c'est la puissance que Luc mesures bouchons de remplissage, mais n'a rien à faire backemf/Fly-Back puisque les champs de stator tournant ne jamais s'éteindre brusquement.
Peut-être aussi il ya une combinaison de backemf. forces (pas le Fly Back mais réel backemf) lorsque l'induction de retour aux vents stator du rotor excité se produit, et ils combinent et multiplient la puissance produite depuis backemf forces  "normalement se heurter " sont maintenant en même flux de direction que la puissance induite par le retour du rotor?

Hi Pierre
My guess is the simplicity we are missing  is that If you imagine the induced electromagnetic locked rotor winds as a permanent magnet,  it will induce power into all of the rotating stator winds that are not being pulsed.
Perhaps this is the power that Luc measures filling caps but has nothing to do backemf/ flyback since rotating stator fields never actually turn off abruptly.
Perhaps also there is a combining of backemf.forces (not the flyback but actual backemf) when the returning induction to stator winds from energized rotor occurs, and they combine and multiply power produced since backemf forces "normally clashing" are now in same direction flow as the returning induced power from rotor?



« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:34:59 PM by konehead »

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Offline konehead

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Is every stator coil there is in rotating field energized and this
Mass of 6 fields rotated?
So no time is there " unpulsed" stator winds?
If so this blows my feeble theory but perhaps the fields in register with the rotor core ends do recieve extra power from the induced rotor winds and the back enf forces normally clashing combine because of same flow direction

Offline konehead

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Hi Everyone
So when a 6 pole stator wind is pulsed, lets say it is 30 pole stator..
Power comes in to for example pole-slot #1, is wound LHR for example, then jumps over the poles and slots between, and then winds around slot #5 but now RHR wound....so there is a electromagnet created there, N one end, S other end, or other way around depending on if LHR or RHR at ends....
This electromagnet stretches across those 5 poles, and the stator poles between are NOT energized directly from the windings and pulse but are induced by the N pole piece at one end, and the S pole piece the other end....
so this would resemble and be just like if a permanaet magnet was there in the place of this stator-electromagnet created by the pulsing......and so there are 6 of these electromagnets all around the stators...each butted end to end to fill up all the stator winds...
so what I am saying is there are unpulsed windings between each pulsed stator pole-end true??
And what happens to these when not only do the stator pole ends create electromagnet, but also the rotor itself "reflects:" itself back upon these unpulsed stator windings?
Sorry to kick this idea around too much maybe it is something....
Maybe I have this wrong, and it is LHR for example and jumps across 5 slots and poles and is also again LHR? Not RHR?
If so same thing, what happens to winds in between pole ends, and what does the induced locked rotor winds do to these? (returns the power to reinforce the power created in stators and it all gets sent through the diodes to fill up cap)
Salut tout le monde
Ainsi, quand un vent stator 6 pôles est pulsé, disons qu'il est 30 pôle stator..
La puissance entre par exemple Pole-slot #1, est la plaie LHR par exemple, puis saute sur les pôles et les fentes entre, puis les vents autour de la fente #5 mais maintenant RHR Wound....so il ya un électro-aimant créé là, n une extrémité, S autre extrémité, ou l'autre manière autour selon si LHR ou  RHR à la fin....
Cet électro-aimant s'étend sur ces 5 pôles, et les pôles de stator entre ne sont pas alimentés directement par les enroulements et le pouls, mais sont induits par la pièce N de pôle à une extrémité, et la pièce de poteau de S l'autre extrémité....
donc, ce serait ressembler et être juste comme si un aimant permanaet était là à la place de ce stator-électro-aimant créé par le pulsation...... et donc il y a 6 de ces électro-aimants tout autour des stators... chaque bout à bout pour remplir tous les vents du stator...
donc ce que je dis, c'est qu'il y a des enroulements non pulsés entre chaque pôle de stator pulsé-fin vrai??
Et ce qui arrive à ces quand non seulement


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Offline forest

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Ok, I'm not expert on generators but I think T-1000 said enough so it's no purpose to hide it. If I'm wrong then correct me...
I think you have to move field but not change it so the flux linking never occur. Once it occur even slightly the effect is gone. The field in generators is constant. The way to accomplish it  , is simple - the armature current must be steady. Imho in solid state generators you can find how to do it in old patents . Mostly they used complex commutators and ohm law ;-)

Offline gotoluc

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Low Frequency test requested by Pmgr plus other higher Frequency comparisons.
Everyone, please keep in mind I am not testing an exact replication of Pierre's device. These are as is tests. There are still many modifications to be completed.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/QRV8MxjM-vA


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Offline T-1000

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Link to video: https://youtu.be/QRV8MxjM-vA
Hi Luc,

Thanks for taking time on testing in different frequencies ranges. This is showing where optimal power transfer can be. Which is low frequency due your metal core characteristics.
There are also few things I would like to mention:
1) The coupling between switching coils and output coil seems are too loose;
2) The switching coils need to be re-calculated to match electromagnet/DC motor type windings. This will stop burning amps from input for no-reason.
3) The capacitor you are putting is behaving like LC circuit. Which is unwanted part. The only way I see to use capacitor is to smooth out switching transition in electromagnet coils. Which can be find out with very small capacity across each switching coil. You will have to find best middle point between power-off delay and unwanted start of self-oscillation.

Cheers!

Offline konehead

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Hi all
Look at this translated quote from Pierre:
"reflect 36 coils can be connected with another"
reflect = remember?
connected with another = connected with each other??
connected with another = connected with another coil???

If it is "another coil" then why not connect all 36 coils directly with the locked rotor coil which is "another coil"
If another coil is "with each other" then all 36 coils connected in series?
Why does he say "Can be" why not say "they are" .....
Sorry to pester so much you can always skip over my nonsense if that is what it is

Offline gotoluc

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Hi Luc,

Thanks for taking time on testing in different frequencies ranges. This is showing where optimal power transfer can be. Which is low frequency due your metal core characteristics.
There are also few things I would like to mention:
1) The coupling between switching coils and output coil seems are too loose;
2) The switching coils need to be re-calculated to match electromagnet/DC motor type windings. This will stop burning amps from input for no-reason.
Yes, I agree and this is what I was trying to establish and test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxFxnVld9-8  before winding the coils but I made errors and was way off in my calculations and no one helped since they probably didn't understand what I was trying to do.

3) The capacitor you are putting is behaving like LC circuit. Which is unwanted part. The only way I see to use capacitor is to smooth out switching transition in electromagnet coils. Which can be find out with very small capacity across each switching coil. You will have to find best middle point between power-off delay and unwanted start of self-oscillation.

Cheers!
I know that. I only use it to get a more accurate scope readings, without it it's too much noise for the scope to read correctly. I try to use minimal values but for that demonstration I couldn't keep changing the cap values as I go up in frequency since it would of taken too much time but I did it once at the end so we could see the real load value.
RegardsLuc

Offline gotoluc

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Made a new center rotor core yesterday but only posting the results today.

Video Part 1:  https://youtu.be/Y4oJ0e9BcZc

Video Part 2:  https://youtu.be/PSGs6xbah00

Video Part 3:  https://youtu.be/8hrBa8qRhY4

 

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