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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 248029 times)

Offline Jeg

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When coils are like in Pierre's contraption they are facing about 20 degrees off the pickup coil core. In your photo they are on 90 degrees.

That is true, but i am not going to use a fixed rotor coil as Pierre did. I will use some of the 36 coils as a secondary. :)

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Offline gotoluc

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First test with new 40 Amp Solid State switches:  https://youtu.be/1RhUY8HX90Y

Offline pmgr

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First test with new 40 Amp Solid State switches:  https://youtu.be/1RhUY8HX90Y
AWESOME!!

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Offline pedro1

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Vraiment impressionnant!!  il y a beaucoup de progrès depuis ton premier essai et a tu réussi a le pousser un peut plus ou C'est a venir n'oublie pas que plus tu injecteras du courant plus que tu devrais avoir de meilleur performance tu pourras tordre le champ de façon plus efficace n'oublie pas que j'ai alimenter mes bobine avec 26volt et je voulait me rendre à 48volt mais je croit que tu devrait commencer à avoir des résultats intéressant a 20volts

En,
Really impressive !! there's a lot of progress since your first try and you have managed to push it a little more and I guess more to come.
Don't forget, the more current you inject the better the performance and you will be able to twist the field in a more effective way.
Don't forget my coil input was 26volt and I would of preferred to go to 48volt but I think you should start to see interesting results at 20volts
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:57:27 AM by gotoluc »

Offline gotoluc

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AWESOME!!
Thanks :)
Here is another video demo focused on the coil return (collapsing field & collecting diodes) which many have been wondering how much power is actually returned from the coils discharges.
I can confirm at the low frequency Pierre was working at, it looks to be less then 10%. So if the diodes return is a big part of the effect we are not getting much from our low inductance 35 turns coils at low frequencies. However, the higher the frequency the more efficient and around 400Hz the scopes (in vs out) current probes measure the coil return to be about 80% of the input power but the output is much less.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/IaWbGIsAT14

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Offline onielsen

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Hi Luc,

Have you tried loading the device with a real load (resistor) instead of the reactive load (capacitor). A reactive load gives back as much energy as it received during a full cycle.

Regards
Ole

Offline pmgr

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Thanks :)
Here is another video demo focused on the coil return (collapsing field & collecting diodes) which many have been wondering how much power is actually returned from the coils discharges.
I can confirm at the low frequency Pierre was working at, it looks to be less then 10%. So if the diodes return is a big part of the effect we are not getting much from our low inductance 35 turns coils at low frequencies. However, the higher the frequency the more efficient and around 400Hz the scopes (in vs out) current probes measure the coil return to be about 80% of the input power but the output is much less.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/IaWbGIsAT14
Luc, interesting too see you can take your H-bridges all the way up to 200-400Hz.

Another thing you should take a look at is the current in each of the 6 coil sets. As I stated before, ideally, they should all be biased with the same current to get 6 even poles with coils 1 and 4 180deg out of phase, coils 3 and 6 180deg out of phase and coils 5 and 2 180deg out of phase. But for the way Pierre has them biased, there will be a 120deg phase difference between coilsets 1-4, 3-6 and 5-2.

PmgR

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Offline gotoluc

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Hi Luc,

Have you tried loading the device with a real load (resistor) instead of the reactive load (capacitor). A reactive load gives back as much energy as it received during a full cycle.

Regards
Ole
Hi Ole,
Yes, I also tried it with resistive loads. No difference. The output will not be good until certain perimeters have been achieved.


Luc, interesting too see you can take your H-bridges all the way up to 200-400Hz.

I think they can go up to 20kHz

Another thing you should take a look at is the current in each of the 6 coil sets. As I stated before, ideally, they should all be biased with the same current to get 6 even poles with coils 1 and 4 180deg out of phase, coils 3 and 6 180deg out of phase and coils 5 and 2 180deg out of phase. But for the way Pierre has them biased, there will be a 120deg phase difference between coilsets 1-4, 3-6 and 5-2.

PmgR
Is this done in the programming?  if so, then this is Jerdee's department and quite sure he will read this post.
Regards
Luc

Offline pmgr

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Hi Ole,
Yes, I also tried it with resistive loads. No difference. The output will not be good until certain perimeters have been achieved.

I think they can go up to 20kHz
Is this done in the programming?  if so, then this is Jerdee's department and quite sure he will read this post.
Regards
Luc
Just make two measurements:

1. To determine if the 180deg phase shift exists, put a current clamp on coil 1 and one on 16 (pole 1 and pole 4). Or pick any other coil pair with 15 coils separation. E.g. coil 6 and 21 (pole 2 and 5), or coil 11 and coil 26 (pole 3 and 6). One clamp should read the opposite of the other clamp.

2.  To determine the 120deg phase shift, put a current clamp on coil 1 and one on coil 11 (pole 1 and pole 3), or e.g. coil 11 and coil 21 (pole 3 and 5), or coil 21 and 1 (pole 5 and 1). These traces should be shifted by 120deg.

PmgR

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Offline jerdee

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What does the armature output windings do in a NORMAL A/C or DC generator while the fields are cut?


Again, everyone is over thinking.  Think simple.  Research normal generator basics!!!  Pierre is utilizing this effect, while ALL ENGINEERS ARE TRYING TO REMOVE IT in the mechanical version!!!  Find what engineers are trying to remove...and then you'll see why Pierre's device works.


Again, think simple, don't over complicate!!


Jerdee

Offline Dog-One

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Excellent workmanship Luc!

You should now have a platform to route out this mystery.  As I would expect from a craftsman like yourself, take your time, don't damage anything and conduct simple tests that will guide you to the solution.  Try to imagine in your mind what is happening and confirm it with applied reasoning.  You'll get it, no need to rush to please the crowd.

D1

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Offline listener192

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What does the armature output windings do in a NORMAL A/C or DC generator while the fields are cut?


Again, everyone is over thinking.  Think simple.  Research normal generator basics!!!  Pierre is utilizing this effect, while ALL ENGINEERS ARE TRYING TO REMOVE IT in the mechanical version!!!  Find what engineers are trying to remove...and then you'll see why Pierre's device works.


Again, think simple, don't over complicate!!
 

Jerdee


The challenge in small stator 3 phase AC generators is to develop a decent sine output with minimum triplen  harmonics which waste energy. This is accomplished with distributed windings but the effectivity is limited by the number of slots available. The other item is to minimise IR losses hence heat disappation, which is constrained by wire size and slot CSA available, Rotor energization current being DC obtained from stator windings after rectification, is minimized by small gauge high turn coils maintaining maximum flux. Rotor/stator gap is maintained at a minimum to maximise flux coupling.


I guess you dont mean any of those things.


L192
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:25:00 PM by listener192 »

Offline konehead

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Hi Luc
Nice to see Pierre himself is encouraging and giving out compliments on your excellent work. This is very good sign everything will be working out great.i think very soon.
Seems like there is still something elusive and mysterious about how it operates in looped mode.
I am sure when you do find it, it will become simple to understand and hopefully teach to others too
Keep going and don't stop to argue!
That's what "they" hope your project will degenerate to...
Loop it publically, expect to be thrown into shark feeding frenzy...
You are the boss man now go go go

Offline onielsen

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What does the armature output windings do in a NORMAL A/C or DC generator while the fields are cut?
...

Then the armature is free to spin and will do so without loading the prime mover if that is still running.

In Pierre's device the stator field is always on as well as the load on the locked rotor. The stator field just moves in steps instead of being fixed or variable as in motor stators. My guess for the excess energy is harvesting the difference in energy levels between separate and coherent fields. The input energy goes to separate coils as seen from the power supply. The stator coils are electrically in series but magnetically in both series and parallel.

The output coil (on the armature) sees the fields from different coils as a coherent field which represents more energy than the single fields when just added. The combined fields make up the coherent field. This I guess is the 'Principle of Inversion' as described by Wilbert B. Smith in 'The New Science' chapter 10 (http://www.rexresearch.com/smith/newsci~1.htm#ch10forces)
Regards
Ole

Offline konehead

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Hi Luc
Am thinking why 10% recovery at slow speeds
And 80% at very high speeds?
Probably because of difference in pulse width?
If there is no  pulse width adjust to compensate for different frequncies,
Pulse width will be too fat at slow speeds and core and coil will over-saturate and backspike/flyback/backemf energy will be cntained witbin d and trapped within coil and core's  over-saturation period for that measly 10% return of energy you see.
However at high frequencies now the pulse becomes just right for good return energy of 80%
Combining and making induced generated energy with flyback  energy also perhaps will "cohere" using  short pulse width
perhaps this one of secrets
I dont know but nothing will get through (or out) when everything over saturated.
Perhaps chop pulse going into inductor at the perfect pulse width so instead of one long 1ms pulse instead give .1ms pulse width five times with .1ms off time between too for total of 1ms pulse period this just example but idea here is first find best pulse width for inductor and voltage and current input for best recovery
Then go from there


 

OneLink