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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 224045 times)

Offline Reiyuki

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Thank you pedro.
We are in no rush.  Tell them all that if they want something fast then they can build devices and figure it out themselves. ;D ;D ;D

 Merci pedro. Nous ne sommes pas pressés. Dites-leur que s'ils veulent quelque chose rapidement, ils peuvent construire les appareils eux-mêmes. ;D ;D ;D

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Offline pmgr

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    • Stop organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners
Has anyone looked at video 3 in detail? I noticed that the system becomes overunity only when the main transformer is plugged into the output coil.

Initially the capacitor bank is charged up to about 24.9V. When the small power supplies are unplugged, the voltage drops quickly, but the drop-down slows down when the power supplies are plugged into the output coil. So at this point, compared to earlier when the small power supplies were still in the wall outlet, some power is fed-back to the capacitor bank internally (not through the transformer), yet not enough to maintain the voltage. So the voltage drops, but slower than before (so no overunity yet). The only way this can happen is through BEMF and the diodes. This means current flowing in the output coil causes BEMF on the coils (which works against the capacitor bank votlage and decreases current flow) and more voltage on the diodes which then produce more current going back to the capacitor bank. So BEMF is definitely present in this prototype.

Eventually, the voltage drops to around 20.3V which is when the main transformer gets unplugged (voltage drops down fast again to 19.8 , then when the transformer is plugged into the output coil, the voltage starts going up again until settling at about 23.7V.

So this means that the output coil has two positive feedback mechanisms; one is internally where plugging in a load causes the system to draw less current overall (less draw on capacitor bank, more feedback through the diodes), second one is with external feedback where power is drawn from the output coil and directly fed back into the system.

PmgR

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Offline FixedSys

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Has anyone looked at video 3 in detail?

Where are the copies?

So this means that the output coil has two positive feedback mechanisms; one is internally where plugging in a load causes the system to draw less current overall (less draw on capacitor bank, more feedback through the diodes), second one is with external feedback where power is drawn from the output coil and directly fed back into the system.

Has anyone yet drawn a schematic that details this arrangement?

Offline gotoluc

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Where are the copies?

Pierre removed them about a month ago. Most of us who were here from the beginning saved ourselves a copy for our own research but it would be wrong (against Pierre's wishes) to distribute them.
So unfortunately you're out of luck now.
Regards
Luc

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Offline listener192

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Rotor trimmed, now covers 6 slots instead of 9. Would work better at 5 slot width.

This was running with all relays working (initially).230V -26V 50Hz transformer. 26VAC RMS rectified by two parallel 35A FWBR connected directly to 150uF/400V cap. Relay feed directly from this cap. 

Super caps supplied via 4 Ohm 50W resistor, recovery direct to super caps.

Recovery current pulses 10A approx.
Even with 0.1uF 400V caps across each relay, the contact resistance slowly increased and setup has become useless again. 

Before failure the output was driving a 60W lightbulb with about half intensity.
Unable to perform additional tests. 

Code original, adjusted for 30 slots.
The first run also attached, see how the coil drive current is consistent compared with the later shot which is at twice the clock rate.

A couple of high side 100V 0.1uF caps across relay contacts failed. These were replaced by either 400V or 1000V caps, which were OK.
Difficult to see how Pierre got this to run for any length of time on the same boards with the songle relays.

RegardsL192

Offline listener192

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I cannot see how the relays could be run fast enough with the current code. The output increased until a point was reached where they could not switch fast enough.Perhaps inverting the DC supply to the second half of the relays would double the output frequency and get us close to 50/60Hz albeit with a waveform that would be a quarter sine.

I would also mention that the lack of the 6th coil decreases inductance and output.

By using a low value cap for the 400V cap, half wave DC or a pulsating waveform could be obtained for switching via the relays.
See the attached link.

http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/IIT-MADRAS/Electrical_Machines_II/animation/sinwave3-9.htm
A regular 3 phase induction motor has two moving flux components, a traveling wave and a pulsating wave due to the AC.
By using a low value cap for the 400V cap, half wave DC or a pulsating waveform could be obtained for switching via the relays.
If both waveforms are in frequency/phase synchronism, then they may reinforce each other.

Regards
L192

 

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Offline listener192

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The caps charge up to about 30V without the device running, this is higher than 25V shown in the videos,so instead of 26VAC RMS I think Pierre's transformer must be closer to 22VAC RMS
L192

Offline gmolina

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Hi L192, 25V in ultracaps bank and 7V in 4Ohm resistor.

GM

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Offline listener192

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Hi L192, 25V in ultracaps bank and 7V in 4Ohm resistor.

GM
The 4 ohm resistor just limits the charging current to the cap bank. There is no volt drop across the resistor once the caps are charged, (in the non running state).
L192
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:16:29 AM by listener192 »

Offline seaad

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??
" the resistor is really hot "

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Offline listener192

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??
" the resistor is really hot "
I did not see this.

Although 10A pulses were being returned to the cap bank via the recovery diodes, most of the current to drive the relays was coming from the line supply. So the resistor stayed cold throughout operation. The voltage on the cap bank did not elevate much above the DC supply on the 400V 150uF cap. I just could not clock the relays fast enough to achieve a higher output.
Regards
L192


Offline cheors

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Fr:
Etes vous sur de la valeur de 150 uF pour le condensateur ? Peu importe, cette valeur est trop faible pour obtenir une tension stable avec un courant de plusieurs ampères dans les relais..
A mon avis cette tension varie pour que le courant varie dans les inductances (un des objectifs signalés par Pierre)
Pourquoi 400v d'isolation si c'était uniquement pour filtrer la tension de sortie du pont redresseur ?
Parce ce qu'il y a  surtensions des inductances qui sont aussi renvoyées vers les supercaps à travers la résistance de 4 ohms.

Qu'en pensez-vous ?

En:
Are you sure of 150 uF for the capacitor? Anyway, this value is too low to obtain a stable voltage with a current of several amperes in the relays.
In my opinion this voltage varies so that the current can change in the inductances (one of the objectives indicated by Pierre)
Why 400v of isolation if it was only to filter the output voltage of the bridge rectifier?
Because there are overvoltages inductances that are also sent back to the supercaps through the 4 ohm resistor.

What do you think ?

Offline listener192

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Fr:
Etes vous sur de la valeur de 150 uF pour le condensateur ? Peu importe, cette valeur est trop faible pour obtenir une tension stable avec un courant de plusieurs ampères dans les relais..
A mon avis cette tension varie pour que le courant varie dans les inductances (un des objectifs signalés par Pierre)
Pourquoi 400v d'isolation si c'était uniquement pour filtrer la tension de sortie du pont redresseur ?
Parce ce qu'il y a  surtensions des inductances qui sont aussi renvoyées vers les supercaps à travers la résistance de 4 ohms.

Qu'en pensez-vous ?

En:
Are you sure of 150 uF for the capacitor? Anyway, this value is too low to obtain a stable voltage with a current of several amperes in the relays.
In my opinion this voltage varies so that the current can change in the inductances (one of the objectives indicated by Pierre)
Why 400v of isolation if it was only to filter the output voltage of the bridge rectifier?
Because there are overvoltages inductances that are also sent back to the supercaps through the 4 ohm resistor.

What do you think ?
A cap of that size will be between 150uF and 330uF.
The voltage rating is that of the cap seen in video 1.I know the size of the, cap as I know the size of the Crydom FWBR along side it.I planned to try 330uF next, unfortunately the relays have failed again so that wont be possible.
The thought was that the half wave ripple may be significant to operation, after all why have such a low value cap there in the first place?
Regards
L192





Offline cheors

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Yes, i agree : we could have a rotating magnetic field with a current change during the rotation.
Close to Clemente Figuera principle.
Is this part of the secret ?

Regards

Oui, je suis d'accord: nous pourrions avoir un champ magnétique tournant avec un changement de courant pendant la rotation.
Proche du principe de Clemente Figuera.
Cela fait partie du secret?

 

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