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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 254276 times)

Offline cheors

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System wiring.
V1 goes to  the + supercaps set
V2 could go to the + Bridge output.

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Offline d3x0r

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System wiring.
V1 goes to  the + supercaps set
V2 could go to the + Bridge output.

*OMG I hate paste on this; it always adds like font and size into url that breaks it*
falstad sim


According to your simulator, when 1 is on, R1 and R14 activate. which is also activating coils 3 and 4 which overlap 6 and 7 with a canceling field.


Each relay should activate 1 coil in 1 polarity....
I dunno maybe that is how it works; I think that's entirely wrong, and if that's the scheme replicated it's no wonder there's no power.


Edit: Oops, left the bottom, middle switch on; was testing what would happen if the previous coil was also activated, but your input signals aren't equal to coil number....

Offline seaad

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System wiring.
V1 goes to  the + supercaps set
V2 could go to the + Bridge output.

Sorry cheors I can't believe in your wiring diagram. Too many unknown wires in Pierres wire bundle. Especially when it comes to V2! See pic Reply #646
only ONE red return wire!
I can see that V2 goes to relay (67), 69, 71.
Even if I had P;s contraption physically in front of me it should be a heavy task following all wires.
You have to turn ALL diods  to +V2!
 /Arne

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Offline T-1000

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When looking again to Pierre's original videos  with relays:
  digitalWrite(1,HIGH), digitalWrite(13,HIGH), digitalWrite(25,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(14,HIGH), digitalWrite(26,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(13,LOW),  digitalWrite(25,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
Which mean on 1st activation you will end up pin 1 "+" and pin 5 "-". So 4 coils in series are positive. But because all coils are connected in series each after another - when making pin 25 "+" pin 30 "-" this will also create path: pin 1 "+" and pin 30 "-"(and 2 other in middle around circle). Which will be negative 7 coils in series path. The current will be stronger in 4 coils in series path but there is also negative component in other direction over 7 coils. On the second step the positive path is getting across 3 coils and negative path is getting across 6 coils in series and that create stronger magentic fields on both ways. On the third step it is 7 coils apart again.
 So at this point partially bucking fields are in place and it is interesting to see what is going to happen in own setup. When keeping in mind on the same position we have coil X towards center and coil X-5 on same axis towards outer shell it is creating interesting scenario.

In regards to diodes - unless you have power supply with center tap and fully isolate positive and negative sides of the coil from shorting (please see my sketch attached again for this) the solution is to have only 1 side of the coil creating BEMF part towards positive terminal.

Cheers!

Offline myenergetic

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@T1000

A little rewiring required on the coil recovery line I have marked them in red
Hope it helps

jj

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Offline d3x0r

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Falstad Sim

I don't understand why the current is running backwards through the diodes though... with switches all open there shouldn't be current flow... I guess because it's floating it drifts to one side, gets charge, which equates the volaage to the other side which lets it conduct that side ...

This requires the common to the coil to have a voltage lower than max and higher than min.... so when driving one side or the other it won't get as much current because not as much voltage differential.

Offline dole

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Hi,
I hope this will not make more confusion, I would suggest little bit different approach.
I will list just few as “statements” and apologize for not giving explanation and showing any proof.
-   There are only 3 poles “rotating” sliding back and forth with delay,
-   3 strong south poles, equally spaced so weak north will be generated naturally in-between.(choosing N or S, it myth depending on where you live)
-   All diodes are only connected to +
-   Timing is critical for each coil as S pole and new moved S pole mast be tuned in fashion long-short (depending on rotation/field speed and N pull, one will be stronger)
-   This way it will be strong and as equally as possible magnetic movement.
-   When this is done there will be almost no consumption or minimal energy requirement and strong moving/sliding magnetic field.
-   Magnetic field will not change direction, just placement; therefore output coil must be double wind in cw, ccw fashion.
(BTW “rotating” magnet test (SN-NS or NS-SN) is important, try it with your core)

Now all this looks like very, very crazy and complete nonsense, so please just ignore it.

Thanks, very respectfully
 
d.

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Offline d3x0r

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https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-15/series-and-parallel-inductors/


Lt = 1 / ( 1 / L1) + 1/L2 )


if I use xH has the L1 and L2, then Lt = 1/(2/x) = x/2 ?


How is that possible when it's generating 2x the magnetic field?  (1 from the one coil, plus 1 from the other inductor) each having the same current...   And if they were on the same core?  Mutual induction can further decrease the inductive reactance... giving a higher rate of flux change.



the same current is going through them as a single (actually 2x total)


---------------
An alternator is the same thing.  energized windings on the outside, and a rotating inner part; the force of rotating the alternator is greater the more charge is required...
So if the alternator is instead rewired with many coils, and those coils progressively drag a mangetic field across the stator; how does the physical drag of rotation manifest? 
The coils most engaged with the core have a higher inductance; which is a longer time to have to apply current ... though I wonder; for the area under the curve, a longer time at a lower current is also lower power for a longer time... so it's not exactly like the drag of an alternator's cogging.


H    parallel    series   (shared core)
16 15.63ms  33s
1   1ms       2.08s
0.5  487us   1s

all seem to be 2000x different.  was (hoping) that a higher mutual inductance would charge relatively faster in parallel than series too; but seems linear time vs inductance.

Inductance relates to the reactance?  not that size/strength of the field generated?

----
Edit:
I was pacing; and figured out I could grab a yoke and wind 3 windings on it; and test series/parallel-ness myself...
I realized Opposite poles are actually the same current direction; so mutual induction does not help....

but I wound quad-filar 32 turns each coil; and put all filaments in series. 
so for output vs input; I have 2x coils on the input and 1 on the out; as a transformer this should be a step-down function.  But, with my signal generator +/-3V; (and coils in parallel) can get +/-5V output.    putting the coils in series I do get a step down...
so I suppose the parallel inductance does make it 1/2 ... so it's a step-up transformer then.




Offline onielsen

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Hi d3x0r,

Quote
How is that possible when it's generating 2x the magnetic field?
It isn't. The formulas for series and parallel coils are for coils not sharing their magnetic fields. When sharing the fields the resultant field is either reinforced or weakened. When reinforced the field becomes coherent which makes the inductance increase by the square to the number of turns. The stored energy at the same current is likewise increased by the square. E.g. doubling the number of turns quadruples the inductance and the stored energy at the same current.

According to the principle of inversion (given by Wilbert B. Smith in 'The New Science') this is a way to take energy out of the cosmic background. This is done by harvesting the difference in energy levels from two fields before and after becoming coherent.

Citing from chapter 10 in Smiths book (https://www.wanttoknow.info/energy/wilbur_smith_new_science):
Quote
...There is a very interesting factor which enters the picture at this point called the Principle of Inversion.
 
 If a region is selected in which there are two fields of the same kind, same magnitude and same direction, such that very nearly half the Reality of each is within the region, then the two fields are just on the edge of becoming coherent. If the fields are not coherent the total energy in the region is the sum of the energies of the two fields, i.e., twice the square of the field intensity of each integrated over the region. If, however, the fields are coherent, the total energy is the square of twice the field intensity integrated over the region, or twice the energy of the two fields incoherent! This relationship is most significant as it represents the "packing energy" of the bits and pieces in atomic nuclei, and also points the way to the precipitation of energy out of the cosmic background.

The difference in energy between the fields from being separate to sharing the same space is how to liberate free energy.

Regards
Ole

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Offline T-1000

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I was pacing; and figured out I could grab a yoke and wind 3 windings on it; and test series/parallel-ness myself...
I realized Opposite poles are actually the same current direction; so mutual induction does not help....
pose the parallel inductance does make it 1/2 ... so it's a step-up transformer then.
In theory it also can be done with ferrite cores but the arrangement need to be kept like in original Pierre's design to have approximation of magnetic field behavior in the center. And there is limitation about size because smaller it gets more meshed magnetic fields become between themselves on the core.

And as parts are slowly arriving to my place I am still also looking for ways how I could get one of 20-30cm diameter motor stator cores with winding fittings towards center and to the outside. So I can make windings in same fashion Pierre had. Any suggestions which ones are available to buy?

Cheers!

Offline AlienGrey

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In theory it also can be done with ferrite cores but the arrangement need to be kept like in original Pierre's design to have approximation of magnetic field behavior in the center. And there is limitation about size because smaller it gets more meshed magnetic fields become between themselves on the core.

And as parts are slowly arriving to my place I am still also looking for ways how I could get one of 20-30cm diameter motor stator cores with winding fittings towards center and to the outside. So I can make windings in same fashion Pierre had. Any suggestions which ones are available to buy?

Cheers!
Interesting, might I ask where the parts are available from ?

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Offline Grumage

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In theory it also can be done with ferrite cores but the arrangement need to be kept like in original Pierre's design to have approximation of magnetic field behavior in the center. And there is limitation about size because smaller it gets more meshed magnetic fields become between themselves on the core.

And as parts are slowly arriving to my place I am still also looking for ways how I could get one of 20-30cm diameter motor stator cores with winding fittings towards center and to the outside. So I can make windings in same fashion Pierre had. Any suggestions which ones are available to buy?

Cheers!

Hi Arunas.

With regard to your question in the last paragraph, would the Armature from a large universal motor serve as your " inside out " design?

Cheers Graham.

Offline T-1000

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Hi Arunas.

With regard to your question in the last paragraph, would the Armature from a large universal motor serve as your " inside out " design?

Cheers Graham.
Hi Graham,
Would you able to link picture and model of it? We are after 36 dual side pins stator.

Cheers!

Offline d3x0r

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In theory it also can be done with ferrite cores but the arrangement need to be kept like in original Pierre's design to have approximation of magnetic field behavior in the center. And there is limitation about size because smaller it gets more meshed magnetic fields become between themselves on the core.

Cheers!

Right; was just a curiosity/experiment; not suggesting alternative designs... If there is 'flux twisting' or that flux has a rope-like character that could be advantageous..


----


Redid the pairing/winding picture... I started to just label sets of 6 poles (original black 1-31, and blue 2-32); then starting marking paired poles with matching colors; especially over the top where it overlaps from 31-1  which has nothing to do with 1-7 pairing.


Although I was considering an alternative construction method; same design though; could wind 36 coils, stack them around a form, wind a 37th coil for the center pickup; put in spacers to fill between the center core and the sides; and fill with ferrite-epoxy/resin...   (the air gap on sides is important to get flux channeled through pickup coil. (yellow fill; not ferite) )


-----
Added coil-color pairing (hue shifted like 90 degrees). (it was way wrong; fixed it)
-----
Edit3: Hmm...
1-6 ... which is 2 coils with no gap... turning on the next phase 2-7 overlaps ... 1
(1-11) slots on..                           (2-12)
1,13,25 


-----
Edit4 : WIth the poles so near, and a skip of 2 between... the winding is actually like a figure 8 (kinda)....
And then it turns out 1 full rotation is 6 cycles output...


Did some research on characteristics of figure 8 coils... FOund these :)  (OFF TOPIC)



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bem.21886


Quote
Abstract
Previously we proposed an eccentric figure‐eight coil that can cause threshold stimulation in the brain at lower driving currents. In this study, we performed numerical simulations and magnetic stimulations to healthy subjects for evaluating the advantages of the eccentric coil. The simulations were performed using a simplified spherical brain model and a realistic human brain model. We found that the eccentric coil required a driving current intensity of approximately 18% less than that required by the concentric coil to cause comparable eddy current densities within the brain. The eddy current localization of the eccentric coil was slightly higher than that of the concentric coil. A prototype eccentric coil was designed and fabricated. Instead of winding a wire around a bobbin, we cut eccentric‐spiral slits on the insulator cases, and a wire was woven through the slits. The coils were used to deliver magnetic stimulation to healthy subjects; among our results, we found that the current slew rate corresponding to motor threshold values for the concentric and eccentric coils were 86 and 78 A/µs, respectively. The results indicate that the eccentric coil consistently requires a lower driving current to reach the motor threshold than the concentric coil. Future development of compact magnetic stimulators will enable the treatment of some intractable neurological diseases at home. Bioelectromagnetics. 35:55–65, 2015. © 2014 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.


(and entirely disrelated)
http://www.reelex.com/REELEX/ = they wind spools of (cable) in figure 8's so it balances the twists and feeds the cable straight...


« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:23:44 AM by d3x0r »

 

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