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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 200199 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Hi Gotoluc,
Here is an end shot of the stator and rotor.

Thanks L192 for posting the picture

Note my coils are a little longer than I planned but they were wound for a 6 slot pitch in a slightly bigger stator.
I didnt want to wind up another set or spend time changing these so they would be tighter.

So from what I see and understand your coils are presently positioned in a 5 slot span but could be reused in longer 36 slot stator and positioned in a 6 slot span?

The rotor covers 9 poles, so induction will be over a wider range of arc.

If your stator has 6 poles and your pitch is 5 slots then I would think if your rotor core covers more then 4 of the T surfaces. then at all time you have 2 poles on each ends of your rotor core.
I think it would result in a very weak flux swing (change) in the rotor core and not induce much flux in the rotor coils?  Notice Pierre's rotor core (first pic) has only about 5 T surfaces coverage.

You can see that more than 36T x 2 could have been packed in these slots, perhaps 46T.
Regards
L192

Yes, I agree and I could of done the same to my stator which made me wonder why Pierre mentioned he had a hard time to fit the same wire gauge and turns I used in his  much larger stator. Something is not right!...  Have a look at the second picture of Pierre's stator. At 4 o'clock you can see the last winding (6 slot pitch) and behind it a bunch of wires away on the outer stator?... then at  5 o'clock a lager mass of wires which slowly reduces at 9 o'clock then starts to build back up again to 1 o'clock. Did you notice a large black wire at 12 o'clock?  I don't think we are building anything close to what Pierre demonstrated.

Regards
Luc

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Offline konehead

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Hi Luc
here is your quote:
"I don't think we are building anything close to what Pierre demonstrated"
(!!!!!!!)

Offline Jeg

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I have 1 BTN7960 board coming


Looks robust enough. I am curious to read your review on this.

Why are you using separate arduino output pins for driving the below switches while they can be driven by sharing the same input with their mate switch at the above row?

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Offline gotoluc

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Hi Luc
here is your quote:
"I don't think we are building anything close to what Pierre demonstrated"
(!!!!!!!)

Yes Doug, that's my quote for today!
Do you want me to call you?
Regards
Luc

Offline listener191

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Thanks L192 for posting the picture

So from what I see and understand your coils are presently positioned in a 5 slot span but could be reused in longer 36 slot stator and positioned in a 6 slot span?

If your stator has 6 poles and your pitch is 5 slots then I would think if your rotor core covers more then 4 of the T surfaces. then at all time you have 2 poles on each ends of your rotor core.
I think it would result in a very weak flux swing (change) in the rotor core and not induce much flux in the rotor coils?  Notice Pierre's rotor core (first pic) has only about 5 T surfaces coverage.

Yes, I agree and I could of done the same to my stator which made me wonder why Pierre mentioned he had a hard time to fit the same wire gauge and turns I used in his  much larger stator. Something is not right!...  Have a look at the second picture of Pierre's stator. At 4 o'clock you can see the last winding (6 slot pitch) and behind it a bunch of wires away on the outer stator?... then at  5 o'clock a lager mass of wires which slowly reduces at 9 o'clock then starts to build back up again to 1 o'clock. Did you notice a large black wire at 12 o'clock?  I don't think we are building anything close to what Pierre demonstrated.

Regards
Luc

Hi Gotoluc,

36 slot stators have much less slot CSA than 30 slot stators, so I think he would have had a harder time. Also he may have been using thick nomex slot liners.

Mine are made with 0.13mm nomex which is a little thin for the job.

Regards

L192

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Offline listener191

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Looks robust enough. I am curious to read your review on this.

Why are you using separate arduino output pins for driving the below switches while they can be driven by sharing the same input with their mate switch at the above row?

Hi Jeg,

Yes I could do that, I just decided to keep full independent control for experimentation purposes.

Regards

L192


Offline listener191

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Hi Everyone
Pierre just put his videos back up again on youtube parts 1 through 4
He has comments section open too but did not see him answer any questions there (yet)
Seems like he wants to stay being open sourced....
Ask him questions there!

Personally I think 6 individual N-S stator-poles at 60 degrees  are energized and then sequentially pulsed in rotation, and continued around flipping polariies every single "pole-segment" - so if 36 poles, this is every revolution 36 polarity changes and because so many polarity changes, this is where the big power is produced....also this is done with that overlapping sequence as Pierre outlined in his circuit  drawing...
Now why is it so overunity is the very interesting and unique winding pattern, which puts backemf and lenz law forces to work reinforcing the power produced, not cancelling it...
I will guess really not much "flyback" energy is produced from the diodes and the reason for the all the recovery diodes is just to protect the electronics more than anything...(could be wrong and this is lots and lots of energy recovered into cap banks - interesting experiment for Pierre would be to put this into 2nd cap bank see if it still loops just as long in time (forever)
Anyways this all my opininons nothing else, working looping models on bench would make it fact...

Big Question:
Were those "magic numbers" Pierre released a few weeks ago correct or was he mistaken??
Seems like now 1-7 etc etc is correct now looking at drawings and lots of analysis , not 1-6 as he put out...maybe this is for slots instead poles I don't know...



Hi Konehead,

See attached.

As area A (red) moves into registration with rotor, coil inductance increases rotor induction happens current flows in load and a counter flux is set up in the rotor and stator. The counterflux sees the high reluctance path offered by the stator path to the rotor however the counter flux sees a lower reluctance path (green) offered by the adjacent pole where the energizing  flux is in the same direction.

At this point this adjacent area is not in registration with the rotor, so induction is low and little counter flux is generated to oppose area A counter flux. It would have to be modeled to confirm this.

Regards

L192

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Offline pmgr

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Hi Jeg,


I just checked and it 0.53mm which is 23AWG rated at about 5A continuous at a nominal temperature. The wire is is rated to 160 deg C, so it could be run beyond 5A.

 I had plenty of this gauge and also 0.8mm which is closer to 20AWG.

The slot CSA would accommodate 0.8mm however it would be tight getting the wire pass the pole ends.

Regards

L192
L192, what is the resistance and inductance of one of your coils by itself (no rotor present).
PmgR

Offline listener191

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L192, what is the resistance and inductance of one of your coils by itself (no rotor present).
PmgR

Hi PmgR,

Mine are all connected in series in  the loom, heat shrunk and tie wrapped, so it will be tomorrow before I can find an open place to break the loop.

I may have a spare coil which I can measure the resistance.

Regards

L192


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Offline pmgr

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L192, you can measure from one half of the stator to the other half of the stator. I believe you have 30slots, so you would be measuring two parallel strings of 15 inductors in series, so what you would measure would be 7.5*L and 7.5*R where R and L are for a single coil. So no need to disconnect anything. Just make sure the rotor is not in the stator.
PmgR

Offline MenofFather

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I think, that this generator work in fallowing way:

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Offline shylo

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Pierre said that only six coils are on at a time, then the next six turn on just as the previous are turning off.
Doesn't that mean there could only be 3 coils at say 0 degrees, then 3 at 180 degrees?
3 at 0 degrees north, 3 at 180 degrees south?
Also the sleeve inside the motor housing, whats that for ,and what is it aluminium?
Thanks artv

also watch the first video where he inserts the magnets to show rotation, slow it down you see a very jerking motion
it seems to match up with the bulges of coils winds at 10 ,2, 4 and 8

Offline listener191

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L192, you can measure from one half of the stator to the other half of the stator. I believe you have 30slots, so you would be measuring two parallel strings of 15 inductors in series, so what you would measure would be 7.5*L and 7.5*R where R and L are for a single coil. So no need to disconnect anything. Just make sure the rotor is not in the stator.
PmgR

Hi PmgR,

Each coil is 1.42 ohms and 1.176mH  without rotor present in stator.

Regards
L192

 

Offline listener191

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Pierre said that only six coils are on at a time, then the next six turn on just as the previous are turning off.
Doesn't that mean there could only be 3 coils at say 0 degrees, then 3 at 180 degrees?
3 at 0 degrees north, 3 at 180 degrees south?
Also the sleeve inside the motor housing, whats that for ,and what is it aluminium?
Thanks artv

Hi Shylo,

Pierre's diagram shows 6 coils energized in series for each pole, so that's 6 x 6 = 36 coils energized all the time.

Its the poles that rotate by changing the high side and low side switch pairs, in a one coil per step sequence, combined with a 1 coil overlap to ensure the magnetic field is never switched off.

Regards

L192 

Offline r2fpl

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Pierre's diagram shows 6 coils energized in series for each pole, so that's 6 x 6 = 36 coils energized all the time.
Hi listener191,


I think 12 coils all the time for 36 coils stator.

section from 1 coil sets (6 coils)...
section from 2 coil sets (6 coils)...


1on
2on
3off
..

later

1off
2on
3on

=12 coils all the time.

 

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