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### Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 373224 times)

#### pmgr

• Full Member
• Posts: 184
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1260 on: June 23, 2018, 12:32:42 AM »
Jerdee, why don't you spell out how it should be wired up; the way you write your emails, you make it appear that you know more than all of us...

You DECREASE inductance and increase CURRENT because of this.  Inductance is changing in rotation!!!!  This is VERY important. Jerdee
Anyway, I have pointed out many times that the inductance changes as you go around the stator. I have even posted plots of it; this is why I asked Luc to measure the inductance going around the rotor at the very start of this thread. I have attached his measurements again for your reference.

I have also pointed out many times that this is a way to create additional energy in the system through d(LI)/dt  (and not L*dI/dt as we are taught in school). It is called parametric variation. Partzman has brought this up as well. Nothing new, this principle is over 80 years old. However in most cases, it takes more energy to vary the inductance, than what the system produces due to the variation. And yes, if you decrease inductance, current will increase as the system will try to keep the flux constant: flux= L*I
PmgR

#### Reiyuki

• Full Member
• Posts: 133
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1261 on: June 23, 2018, 05:45:57 AM »
An alternative wiring possibility I have not seen mentioned yet.  Arduino program driven identical to Pierre's.

A superconducting coil stores flux by shorting the coil leads.  Surely shorting sections of the stator assembly would do a good job at keeping the flux inside the core as well?

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1262 on: June 23, 2018, 07:39:09 AM »
Hi Reiyuki
Any inductor with core or with aircore too, will go into a hyper ringing AC event upon a switch short-circuiting the coil leads together briefly.
The hyper ringing will fill up capacitors x20 or x50 in voltage via fwbr AC legs over coil and DC side to cap.
The switched short should be very brief pulse width and occur at sinewave peak period in an induced generator coil induced by sweeping magnet while with a pulsed dc coil, the switched short should happen just before saturation occurs.
Switching needs to be very low resistance and with ability to switch AC and to sustain the hyper ringing through switching during switch closure so for solid state bidirectionally connected paralled mosfets with also a very fast additional diode from source to drain on each paralleled mosfet cluster will worl well.
Resistive load is applied to the cap discharge event only, and caps must first fill by themselves with no resistive load across them during filling process...
I don't know about superconducting coils being shorted or the cores storing energy but I would assume cores must be very fast acting low hysterisis type

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1263 on: June 23, 2018, 11:33:32 AM »
Hi everyone
I just discovered Pierre sent me personal message way back on March 18 and did not know this until last night.
He was saying his wave form resembles a sinewave scope photo I posted of also a 60hz sinewave and this was created by a nsns rotor of 4 big neodymium magnets sweeping past a big fat air cored generator coil st rpms of 1800rpm which creates the squarish looking 60hz sinewave sinewave
with this basic sinewave I could power just about anything that runs on 60hz AC from grid.
Anyways what I did was timed a short circuit of that fat aircoed coil with a simple brush - copper commuttor and this short circuit of coil timed to happen in middle of the sinewave peak period.
And you can see clearly in scope photo at bottom page in link just what happens and  I call this A.C. hyper ringing....it fills up caps like crazy is its advantage.
Anyways this got me thinking "maybe" what is going on is that those noisy mechanical relays Pierre used  are so slow to open and maybe sticking closed a bit of time too, so instead of a reversal of polarity in pulsing as is desired, it instead creates a brief shorted out condition to the inductor, ubtil the relays finallyl wedge themselves open, and this without knowledge of Pierre and so this is the mystery-power Pierre finds and videos show....
A bit far fetched but possible.....here is link to page Pierre wrote to me about look at scope photo at bottom of page

...

.

#### stargate22

• Newbie
• Posts: 14
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1264 on: June 23, 2018, 08:11:49 PM »
Hi everyone
I just discovered Pierre sent me personal message way back on March 18 and did not know this until last night.
He was saying his wave form resembles a sinewave scope photo I posted of also a 60hz sinewave and this was created by a nsns rotor of 4 big neodymium magnets sweeping past a big fat air cored generator coil st rpms of 1800rpm which creates the squarish looking 60hz sinewave sinewave
with this basic sinewave I could power just about anything that runs on 60hz AC from grid.
Anyways what I did was timed a short circuit of that fat aircoed coil with a simple brush - copper commuttor and this short circuit of coil timed to happen in middle of the sinewave peak period.
And you can see clearly in scope photo at bottom page in link just what happens and  I call this A.C. hyper ringing....it fills up caps like crazy is its advantage.
Anyways this got me thinking "maybe" what is going on is that those noisy mechanical relays Pierre used  are so slow to open and maybe sticking closed a bit of time too, so instead of a reversal of polarity in pulsing as is desired, it instead creates a brief shorted out condition to the inductor, ubtil the relays finallyl wedge themselves open, and this without knowledge of Pierre and so this is the mystery-power Pierre finds and videos show....
A bit far fetched but possible.....here is link to page Pierre wrote to me about look at scope photo at bottom of page

...

.

Below are shots of Pierre's diag. and a scope shot of a "Harbor frieght", 900 watt , 2 cycle Gen.
It appears that there is some "Coil-shorting" happening there on the 900 watt gen.

Doug, do you see what's going on here .... does this apply ?

#### T-1000

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1738
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1265 on: June 23, 2018, 10:52:16 PM »
Anyways what I did was timed a short circuit of that fat aircoed coil with a simple brush - copper commuttor and this short circuit of coil timed to happen in middle of the sinewave peak period.
And you can see clearly in scope photo at bottom page in link just what happens and  I call this A.C. hyper ringing....it fills up caps like crazy is its advantage.
If anyone remember Ismael Aviso car https://peswiki.com/directory:ismael-aviso-self-charging-electric-car that was exactly about same thing. You can do many fancy things around coil shorting but in general it deviates from general AC generator function...

#### Dog-One

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1012
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1266 on: June 24, 2018, 12:10:13 AM »
I see exactly what is going on in those scope shots.  You have a high frequency (probably odd harmonic) carrier with a low frequency parametric resonance as the modulation.  Once parametric resonance grows, it almost completely dwarfs the carrier frequency.

Below are some snaps I generated at the 21st harmonic.

Whatever you do though guys, don't think about this for even a minute because I'm full of shit.

#### onielsen

• Newbie
• Posts: 28
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1267 on: June 24, 2018, 02:04:20 AM »
...
Anyways this got me thinking "maybe" what is going on is that those noisy mechanical relays Pierre used  are so slow to open and maybe sticking closed a bit of time too, so instead of a reversal of polarity in pulsing as is desired, it instead creates a brief shorted out condition to the inductor, ubtil the relays finallyl wedge themselves open, and this without knowledge of Pierre and so this is the mystery-power Pierre finds and videos show....
A bit far fetched but possible.....here is link to page Pierre wrote to me about look at scope photo at bottom of page
...
Hi Kone,

This is very possible if the relay modules have a diode across each relay coil for protecting a transistor output. This will slow down the demagnetization of the coil as only the resistance of the coil in series with the resistance of the forward biased diode is dissipating the energy. For fast release of a relay a resistive snubber has to be used. The resistance has to be high enough to generate a flyback peak voltage a little below the max allowed voltage that the transistor can take. This gives the fastest demagnetization of the magnetic circuit (of the relay) and thus the fastest release of the armature. The slow release could be the secret for mixing the fields in a coherent way in the stator of the DZ generator. As long as a coil is shorted it acts as a permanent magnet. At least this is true if the short is of very low resistance.

Regards
Ole

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1268 on: June 24, 2018, 03:13:06 AM »
Hi Ole
It must be ultra low resistance to those mechanical relays and ultra low resistance is required for filling up caps very fast and very high with a coil that is first induced by sweeping magnet, or Pierre's case. coils pulsed with DC, then inadvertently shorted because of the sticking or just very slow mechanical relays.
Coherence of the stator fields you mention to me would be rectifying of all the "trapped" and induced fields between the NS or SN pair of pulsed and energized  fields at each edge of one of the 6 poles...such as in example laminate segment #1 would be RHR while laminate segment  #6  would be  LHR, and so this establishes a N and S electromagnet for that pole.
Now those wrapped  but un-pulsed laminate segments between
#1 and #6 become induced pickup winds, all rectified so power created all combined to flow into common capacitor bank...so there is the coherence...
Also I believe "if" those simultaneous  pulsed DC fields (#1 and #6) do have a brief short applied to them, the hyper ringing created would also be inducing this hyper ringing condition into those  fields between too
(#2 #3 #4 #5)
so there is some more coherence going on too and this in a hyper ringing state...

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1269 on: June 24, 2018, 04:03:28 AM »
Hi T-1000
Ismael would do 5 very quick shorts in succesion during the peak period (just before saturation of the coil) to the pulsed DC inductors in his MEG reactor that powered his electric car.

First short initiates the ringing and the remaining 4 shorts are timed to occur at the peaks of the ringing peaks created!
Now you get exponential power increase for purpose of filling up cap very fast and very high.

This has some relevance to DZ generator since the rotating stator fields are.pulsed DC, and if there is a brief shorted condition in them, the AC hyper-ringing created will also be.induced into the fixed rotor coil.

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1270 on: June 24, 2018, 10:32:59 AM »
Hi Stargate
The harbor freight 900w generator scope pboto looks like worn out brushes and bad connection througout!
The drawing by Pierre looks too smooth of peaks in middle.of wave to be what happens with peak coil shorting  but maybe his little scope displays it like that.

Could be like dog-one describes and and is parametric resonance (whatever that is exactly)

#### Jeg

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1532
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1271 on: June 24, 2018, 12:37:04 PM »
I have pointed out many times that the inductance changes as you go around the stator.

That is true. Except if the point is to create a minimum inductance when in full registration and maximum inductance when we are far from full reg. This would justify Jerdee's opinion, and also would minimize the losses.

Not to speak about the coil shorting technique. Dog-one said everything in one line.

#### ARTMOSART

• Newbie
• Posts: 21
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1272 on: June 24, 2018, 03:07:29 PM »
une petite question pour Pierre ,
Comment étes-vous arrivée à stabiliser la tension de sortie à 139V malgré une fluctuation de 5V sur l'entrée?merci d'avance .
cordialement Mosha

#### Dog-One

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1012
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1273 on: June 24, 2018, 04:10:11 PM »
Let's talk about a piston in an engine for a moment.  Suppose when the piston is accelerating downward we decrease the mass by 90%.  Then when the piston is nearly bottomed out, we return the mass to it's original amount.  Do that on every stroke, both upwards and downwards, twice per cycle.  Pretty soon that motor will accelerate into oblivion.  That's your parametric resonance.  A tough act to do mechanically in an engine, but...

We can do a very similar thing with a pair of inductors.  Short one of them to decrease the inductance, then open the short when we have reached the peak.

Now let's think a minute.  When we short, we create a current surge in one of the inductors.  What does this do?  It juices up the magnetic field in a particular polarity.  So what happens to a neighboring coil?  Inductance on the output side is the production of an EMF based on the change (derivative) of the current on the input side.  So in the DZ Gen, we need to think about rotating transformers circulating the stator core.  You have big current in one winding and big voltage in the other.  Every cycle we step around the core, current pushing/lagging voltage (don't get that backwards, because we want the EMF to add to the CEMF), building on top of the previous cycle.  If your rotation is such that the induced voltage is opposing the change in current, you're sunk.  Go the other direction.  Move those little transformers in a manner that is productive.

#### listener192

• Full Member
• Posts: 241
##### Re: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated
« Reply #1274 on: June 24, 2018, 04:49:34 PM »
Just out of interest, I took this shot of the input current while I still had the relays working.
It used a set of relays to reverse the DC rail, so every other pulse changed polarity.
Output was insignificant,as you might expect.
L192